β² 290 βΌ Food too expensive? Itβs time for public grocery stores (briarpatchmagazine.com) submitted 1 year ago by Sunshine@piefed.ca to c/canada@lemmy.ca 64 comments fedilink hide all child comments
[β] Canconda@lemmy.ca 63 points 1 year ago (3 children) IMO every city should have public cafeterias that: A) Grow / process ingredients onsite (greenhouse), or source through a local network. B) Provide nutritional food free of charge C) Create entry level jobs that teach practical skills such as cooking and horticulture. D) Increase food security. Global agriculture supply chains are about to be completely disrupted by climate change. permalink fedilink source hideshow 6 child comments replies: [β] FireRetardant@lemmy.world 44 points 1 year ago (2 children) Sorry, we'd rather keep paving over farmland to make unaffordable mcmansions because our leaders cannot fathom a country that is self sufficient where values aren't constantly increasing permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 4 child comments replies: [β] Canconda@lemmy.ca 8 points 1 year ago B-bbut where will we put all the over priced shoeboxes for better offs from out of town to party in? permalink fedilink source parent [β] Medic8teMe@lemmy.ca 7 points 1 year ago Or allowing our wealthiest to buy up all the farmland so they have complete control of everything...like a feudal king. permalink fedilink source parent [β] BlameThePeacock@lemmy.ca -1 points 1 year ago (2 children) A) is just rediculous, the space required to feed even a suburban block is orders of magnitude more than a greenhouse onsite could provide. It may be able to grow enough herbs, but that's about it. I'm fine with the rest of the idea. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 4 child comments replies: [β] Canconda@lemmy.ca 9 points 1 year ago (1 child) or source through a local network. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [β] BlameThePeacock@lemmy.ca 6 points 1 year ago (1 child) I just replied to your other comment, but even a local network can't feed a city. Let's do some more math. Los Angeles has about 18 million people, and on average they take about 2 acres of land to feed (it can be less for vegetarians, but lets assume they are just normal people here) That's 36 million acres needed, which is about 56,000 square miles, which is an area of 280 miles by 200 miles of nothing but farmland. You quite literally can't even feed Los Angles with a 100 mile diet, even if it was surrounded by nothing but farms (which it isn't) In fact, California only has about 25 million acres of farmland in total (8 million irrigated, and the rest for animal grazing) Source local food sounds good, but we import food for a reason. Cities require a ridiculous amount of farm land to feed. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [β] Canconda@lemmy.ca -3 points 1 year ago (1 child) What you said: typical grocery store What I said: IMO every city should have public cafeterias We're not talking about the same thing. You're arguing with yourself. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [β] TheTetrapod@lemmy.world 3 points 1 year ago I've never been to a cafeteria with a bigger footprint than the average grocery store. permalink fedilink source parent [β] Sturgist@lemmy.ca 1 point 1 year ago (2 children) Ground floor is the community grocery, and the next 3-5 floors are a hydroponics farm. It's really not that ridiculous. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 4 child comments replies: [β] BlameThePeacock@lemmy.ca 9 points 1 year ago (1 child) You could have 5 floors, and it still wouldn't be enough. You could have 30 floors and it wouldn't be enough. I don't think you understand the scale of farming to human. Even if you're entirely vegetarian it's on the order of 0.5-1 acre per person to grow the required food. That's 20,000-40,000 square feet. Even if hydroponics were involved and cut that by a factor of 10, you'd still be at 2000 square feet per person. A typical grocery store is 25-50,000 square feet, so let's go with the most generous and say 5 floors of 50,000 square feet you could produce enough food for.... 125 people. The math doesn't math. No reasonable amount of food growth is ever going to be possible inside a city. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [+] Canconda@lemmy.ca -7 points 1 year ago (1 child) What you said: typical grocery store What I said: IMO every city should have public cafeterias We're not talking about the same thing. You're arguing with yourself. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [β] AwesomeLowlander@sh.itjust.works 3 points 1 year ago (1 child) Replace grocery store with cafeteria, do you have an actual argument or are you just nitpicking? permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [β] Canconda@lemmy.ca 0 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (1 child) No I have an idea to fix food bank shortages, while creating jobs and teaching practical skills. The shortage that occurred collectively in your brains I have nothing for. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [β] AwesomeLowlander@sh.itjust.works 1 point 1 year ago (1 child) Look, I'm all for making the world a better place. So here's my 2c, from somebody who's tried and done it in a small manner. You'll need allies, partners. You'll face a lot of doubt and questions. If you meet it all with outright hostility, you're never going to get very far. Sure, we're all online randos, but if you can't muster a decent argument with all the time in the world, you're going to have a hard time persuading anybody in the real world. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [β] Canconda@lemmy.ca -1 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) do you have an actual argument or are you just nitpicking? And what part of that comment was indented to make me an ally or not perceive you as outrightly hostile? Cute adhominim at the end there. Couldn't resist could you? Ya hypocrite. permalink fedilink source parent [β] Canconda@lemmy.ca 1 point 1 year ago* (1 child) My vision is Ground floor: Cafeteria / service kitchen 2nd Floor: Production Kitchen / food packaging 3rd Floor : Aquaponics & fertigation 4+ : greenhouse. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [β] BlameThePeacock@lemmy.ca 3 points 1 year ago (2 children) It's a nice utopian idea, but it just doesn't do anything. The aquaponics and greenhouse are just a bad utilization of such prime real estate space, the amount of food produced would be so low as to be a rounding error for the food they would still need to import and you could use that same floor space to house hundreds of more people. Go look at my comment from a few minutes ago showing the production math for 5 stories of hydroponics. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 4 child comments replies: [β] Medic8teMe@lemmy.ca 1 point 1 year ago Aquaponics also has an issue with nutrient density so you would need more volume than traditional soil growing methods to create the same volume of nutrition. permalink fedilink source parent [β] Canconda@lemmy.ca -2 points 1 year ago (1 child) https://www.edengreen.com/blog-collection/vertical-farming-crop-yield-per-acre We're talking about 2 different things. I have zero interest in debunking all your strawmans and assumptions about a completely different concept. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [β] BlameThePeacock@lemmy.ca 4 points 1 year ago (1 child) Your article says it's 40:1 instead of the 10:1 I assumed, but that's still far too little to matter. Your two floors of farming would still feed less than a hundred people full time, even if they hit those lofty idea targets. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [β] Canconda@lemmy.ca -3 points 1 year ago* (1 child) You're the one inserting the assumption that this has to become the only source of food for people. I said: or source through a local network. If you can't read those words and comprehend them than why would I consider anything you have to say? permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [β] BlameThePeacock@lemmy.ca 4 points 1 year ago (1 child) What the fuck does local mean? I just showed you the math that even Los Angeles alone consumes more food than you can possibly grow in California. You're the one fucking around with "I want a greenhouse above my grocery store" with no real proof that it would matter or be a good use of space. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [β] grindemup@lemmy.world 4 points 1 year ago (1 child) You seem to be assuming that this idea would have to solve all food consumed by everyone. No one is making that assumption except for you. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [β] Canconda@lemmy.ca 1 point 1 year ago Thank you. I'm literally just trying to fix food banks not having enough food and a handful of people are insisting I've suggested this will replace Loblaws. permalink fedilink source parent [β] octade@soc.octade.net -3 points 1 year ago (2 children) @Sunshine@piefed.ca What you propose has existed for decades. See the link: https://www.fns.usda.gov/summer/sitefinder permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 4 child comments replies: [β] grindemup@lemmy.world 4 points 1 year ago (1 child) Only available for children in the summer.. I don't think this isn't the solution being proposed. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [β] octade@soc.octade.net 0 points 1 year ago (1 child) It is a solution in search of a problem. And it would create far more expensive problems than it proposes to solve. The Soviets already did this kind of thing--the same Soviets who deliberately starved millions to death with manufactured food shortages. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [β] grindemup@lemmy.world 2 points 1 year ago (1 child) Is there a name for the fallacy that something is doomed to fail just because some quasi-communist state tried to implement something similar at some point? permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [β] octade@soc.octade.net 1 point 1 year ago (1 child) The fallacy is failing to understand the authoritarian spirit behind purported 'humanitarian' causes, especially those that involve using the deadly force of the state for funding. People who worship the idol of political power are generally lacking awareness of their own desire to boss others around. Failing to learn from history is part and parcel of the matter. Giving government ubiquitous control over the food supply has one result, and history has proved it a hundred times over. Complain all you want about greed in the market--government is near infinitely greedier. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [β] grindemup@lemmy.world 1 point 1 year ago* Alright friend, OP certainly never implied "giving government ubiquitous control over the food supply" by any means, so at least this is clearly a simple case of strawman fallacy. edit: like if you think about it for literally more than two seconds, you'll realize that OP's idea involved building capacity amongst the general population for horticulture, something which fundamentally opposes the idea of giving government ubiquitous control. permalink fedilink source parent [β] TORFdot0@lemmy.world 2 points 1 year ago (2 children) Our local school opened up one of these programs during the pandemic. Itβs a blessing but it only is for kids and only lasts 8 weeks during the summer permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 4 child comments replies: [β] Zexks@lemmy.world 2 points 1 year ago Lol. Welcome to 'growing seasons' permalink fedilink source parent [β] octade@soc.octade.net 0 points 1 year ago (1 child) @TORFdot0@lemmy.world The school cafeterias could remain open 24/7 for everyone. Sure, taxes would go up about 50% or so, but free sloppy joes would be well worth it, amirite? permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [β] socialsecurity@piefed.social 1 point 1 year ago Our society lacks sufficient trust to have something work like this. Also, there certainly going to be negative externalities when mixing kids with the poor. I doubt anyone would sign on this security wise. Schools are already border line prison conditions in the US. permalink fedilink source parent
[β] FireRetardant@lemmy.world 44 points 1 year ago (2 children) Sorry, we'd rather keep paving over farmland to make unaffordable mcmansions because our leaders cannot fathom a country that is self sufficient where values aren't constantly increasing permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 4 child comments replies: [β] Canconda@lemmy.ca 8 points 1 year ago B-bbut where will we put all the over priced shoeboxes for better offs from out of town to party in? permalink fedilink source parent [β] Medic8teMe@lemmy.ca 7 points 1 year ago Or allowing our wealthiest to buy up all the farmland so they have complete control of everything...like a feudal king. permalink fedilink source parent
[β] Canconda@lemmy.ca 8 points 1 year ago B-bbut where will we put all the over priced shoeboxes for better offs from out of town to party in? permalink fedilink source parent
[β] Medic8teMe@lemmy.ca 7 points 1 year ago Or allowing our wealthiest to buy up all the farmland so they have complete control of everything...like a feudal king. permalink fedilink source parent
[β] BlameThePeacock@lemmy.ca -1 points 1 year ago (2 children) A) is just rediculous, the space required to feed even a suburban block is orders of magnitude more than a greenhouse onsite could provide. It may be able to grow enough herbs, but that's about it. I'm fine with the rest of the idea. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 4 child comments replies: [β] Canconda@lemmy.ca 9 points 1 year ago (1 child) or source through a local network. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [β] BlameThePeacock@lemmy.ca 6 points 1 year ago (1 child) I just replied to your other comment, but even a local network can't feed a city. Let's do some more math. Los Angeles has about 18 million people, and on average they take about 2 acres of land to feed (it can be less for vegetarians, but lets assume they are just normal people here) That's 36 million acres needed, which is about 56,000 square miles, which is an area of 280 miles by 200 miles of nothing but farmland. You quite literally can't even feed Los Angles with a 100 mile diet, even if it was surrounded by nothing but farms (which it isn't) In fact, California only has about 25 million acres of farmland in total (8 million irrigated, and the rest for animal grazing) Source local food sounds good, but we import food for a reason. Cities require a ridiculous amount of farm land to feed. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [β] Canconda@lemmy.ca -3 points 1 year ago (1 child) What you said: typical grocery store What I said: IMO every city should have public cafeterias We're not talking about the same thing. You're arguing with yourself. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [β] TheTetrapod@lemmy.world 3 points 1 year ago I've never been to a cafeteria with a bigger footprint than the average grocery store. permalink fedilink source parent [β] Sturgist@lemmy.ca 1 point 1 year ago (2 children) Ground floor is the community grocery, and the next 3-5 floors are a hydroponics farm. It's really not that ridiculous. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 4 child comments replies: [β] BlameThePeacock@lemmy.ca 9 points 1 year ago (1 child) You could have 5 floors, and it still wouldn't be enough. You could have 30 floors and it wouldn't be enough. I don't think you understand the scale of farming to human. Even if you're entirely vegetarian it's on the order of 0.5-1 acre per person to grow the required food. That's 20,000-40,000 square feet. Even if hydroponics were involved and cut that by a factor of 10, you'd still be at 2000 square feet per person. A typical grocery store is 25-50,000 square feet, so let's go with the most generous and say 5 floors of 50,000 square feet you could produce enough food for.... 125 people. The math doesn't math. No reasonable amount of food growth is ever going to be possible inside a city. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [+] Canconda@lemmy.ca -7 points 1 year ago (1 child) What you said: typical grocery store What I said: IMO every city should have public cafeterias We're not talking about the same thing. You're arguing with yourself. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [β] AwesomeLowlander@sh.itjust.works 3 points 1 year ago (1 child) Replace grocery store with cafeteria, do you have an actual argument or are you just nitpicking? permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [β] Canconda@lemmy.ca 0 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (1 child) No I have an idea to fix food bank shortages, while creating jobs and teaching practical skills. The shortage that occurred collectively in your brains I have nothing for. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [β] AwesomeLowlander@sh.itjust.works 1 point 1 year ago (1 child) Look, I'm all for making the world a better place. So here's my 2c, from somebody who's tried and done it in a small manner. You'll need allies, partners. You'll face a lot of doubt and questions. If you meet it all with outright hostility, you're never going to get very far. Sure, we're all online randos, but if you can't muster a decent argument with all the time in the world, you're going to have a hard time persuading anybody in the real world. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [β] Canconda@lemmy.ca -1 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) do you have an actual argument or are you just nitpicking? And what part of that comment was indented to make me an ally or not perceive you as outrightly hostile? Cute adhominim at the end there. Couldn't resist could you? Ya hypocrite. permalink fedilink source parent [β] Canconda@lemmy.ca 1 point 1 year ago* (1 child) My vision is Ground floor: Cafeteria / service kitchen 2nd Floor: Production Kitchen / food packaging 3rd Floor : Aquaponics & fertigation 4+ : greenhouse. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [β] BlameThePeacock@lemmy.ca 3 points 1 year ago (2 children) It's a nice utopian idea, but it just doesn't do anything. The aquaponics and greenhouse are just a bad utilization of such prime real estate space, the amount of food produced would be so low as to be a rounding error for the food they would still need to import and you could use that same floor space to house hundreds of more people. Go look at my comment from a few minutes ago showing the production math for 5 stories of hydroponics. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 4 child comments replies: [β] Medic8teMe@lemmy.ca 1 point 1 year ago Aquaponics also has an issue with nutrient density so you would need more volume than traditional soil growing methods to create the same volume of nutrition. permalink fedilink source parent [β] Canconda@lemmy.ca -2 points 1 year ago (1 child) https://www.edengreen.com/blog-collection/vertical-farming-crop-yield-per-acre We're talking about 2 different things. I have zero interest in debunking all your strawmans and assumptions about a completely different concept. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [β] BlameThePeacock@lemmy.ca 4 points 1 year ago (1 child) Your article says it's 40:1 instead of the 10:1 I assumed, but that's still far too little to matter. Your two floors of farming would still feed less than a hundred people full time, even if they hit those lofty idea targets. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [β] Canconda@lemmy.ca -3 points 1 year ago* (1 child) You're the one inserting the assumption that this has to become the only source of food for people. I said: or source through a local network. If you can't read those words and comprehend them than why would I consider anything you have to say? permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [β] BlameThePeacock@lemmy.ca 4 points 1 year ago (1 child) What the fuck does local mean? I just showed you the math that even Los Angeles alone consumes more food than you can possibly grow in California. You're the one fucking around with "I want a greenhouse above my grocery store" with no real proof that it would matter or be a good use of space. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [β] grindemup@lemmy.world 4 points 1 year ago (1 child) You seem to be assuming that this idea would have to solve all food consumed by everyone. No one is making that assumption except for you. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [β] Canconda@lemmy.ca 1 point 1 year ago Thank you. I'm literally just trying to fix food banks not having enough food and a handful of people are insisting I've suggested this will replace Loblaws. permalink fedilink source parent
[β] Canconda@lemmy.ca 9 points 1 year ago (1 child) or source through a local network. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [β] BlameThePeacock@lemmy.ca 6 points 1 year ago (1 child) I just replied to your other comment, but even a local network can't feed a city. Let's do some more math. Los Angeles has about 18 million people, and on average they take about 2 acres of land to feed (it can be less for vegetarians, but lets assume they are just normal people here) That's 36 million acres needed, which is about 56,000 square miles, which is an area of 280 miles by 200 miles of nothing but farmland. You quite literally can't even feed Los Angles with a 100 mile diet, even if it was surrounded by nothing but farms (which it isn't) In fact, California only has about 25 million acres of farmland in total (8 million irrigated, and the rest for animal grazing) Source local food sounds good, but we import food for a reason. Cities require a ridiculous amount of farm land to feed. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [β] Canconda@lemmy.ca -3 points 1 year ago (1 child) What you said: typical grocery store What I said: IMO every city should have public cafeterias We're not talking about the same thing. You're arguing with yourself. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [β] TheTetrapod@lemmy.world 3 points 1 year ago I've never been to a cafeteria with a bigger footprint than the average grocery store. permalink fedilink source parent
[β] BlameThePeacock@lemmy.ca 6 points 1 year ago (1 child) I just replied to your other comment, but even a local network can't feed a city. Let's do some more math. Los Angeles has about 18 million people, and on average they take about 2 acres of land to feed (it can be less for vegetarians, but lets assume they are just normal people here) That's 36 million acres needed, which is about 56,000 square miles, which is an area of 280 miles by 200 miles of nothing but farmland. You quite literally can't even feed Los Angles with a 100 mile diet, even if it was surrounded by nothing but farms (which it isn't) In fact, California only has about 25 million acres of farmland in total (8 million irrigated, and the rest for animal grazing) Source local food sounds good, but we import food for a reason. Cities require a ridiculous amount of farm land to feed. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [β] Canconda@lemmy.ca -3 points 1 year ago (1 child) What you said: typical grocery store What I said: IMO every city should have public cafeterias We're not talking about the same thing. You're arguing with yourself. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [β] TheTetrapod@lemmy.world 3 points 1 year ago I've never been to a cafeteria with a bigger footprint than the average grocery store. permalink fedilink source parent
[β] Canconda@lemmy.ca -3 points 1 year ago (1 child) What you said: typical grocery store What I said: IMO every city should have public cafeterias We're not talking about the same thing. You're arguing with yourself. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [β] TheTetrapod@lemmy.world 3 points 1 year ago I've never been to a cafeteria with a bigger footprint than the average grocery store. permalink fedilink source parent
[β] TheTetrapod@lemmy.world 3 points 1 year ago I've never been to a cafeteria with a bigger footprint than the average grocery store. permalink fedilink source parent
[β] Sturgist@lemmy.ca 1 point 1 year ago (2 children) Ground floor is the community grocery, and the next 3-5 floors are a hydroponics farm. It's really not that ridiculous. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 4 child comments replies: [β] BlameThePeacock@lemmy.ca 9 points 1 year ago (1 child) You could have 5 floors, and it still wouldn't be enough. You could have 30 floors and it wouldn't be enough. I don't think you understand the scale of farming to human. Even if you're entirely vegetarian it's on the order of 0.5-1 acre per person to grow the required food. That's 20,000-40,000 square feet. Even if hydroponics were involved and cut that by a factor of 10, you'd still be at 2000 square feet per person. A typical grocery store is 25-50,000 square feet, so let's go with the most generous and say 5 floors of 50,000 square feet you could produce enough food for.... 125 people. The math doesn't math. No reasonable amount of food growth is ever going to be possible inside a city. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [+] Canconda@lemmy.ca -7 points 1 year ago (1 child) What you said: typical grocery store What I said: IMO every city should have public cafeterias We're not talking about the same thing. You're arguing with yourself. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [β] AwesomeLowlander@sh.itjust.works 3 points 1 year ago (1 child) Replace grocery store with cafeteria, do you have an actual argument or are you just nitpicking? permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [β] Canconda@lemmy.ca 0 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (1 child) No I have an idea to fix food bank shortages, while creating jobs and teaching practical skills. The shortage that occurred collectively in your brains I have nothing for. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [β] AwesomeLowlander@sh.itjust.works 1 point 1 year ago (1 child) Look, I'm all for making the world a better place. So here's my 2c, from somebody who's tried and done it in a small manner. You'll need allies, partners. You'll face a lot of doubt and questions. If you meet it all with outright hostility, you're never going to get very far. Sure, we're all online randos, but if you can't muster a decent argument with all the time in the world, you're going to have a hard time persuading anybody in the real world. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [β] Canconda@lemmy.ca -1 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) do you have an actual argument or are you just nitpicking? And what part of that comment was indented to make me an ally or not perceive you as outrightly hostile? Cute adhominim at the end there. Couldn't resist could you? Ya hypocrite. permalink fedilink source parent [β] Canconda@lemmy.ca 1 point 1 year ago* (1 child) My vision is Ground floor: Cafeteria / service kitchen 2nd Floor: Production Kitchen / food packaging 3rd Floor : Aquaponics & fertigation 4+ : greenhouse. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [β] BlameThePeacock@lemmy.ca 3 points 1 year ago (2 children) It's a nice utopian idea, but it just doesn't do anything. The aquaponics and greenhouse are just a bad utilization of such prime real estate space, the amount of food produced would be so low as to be a rounding error for the food they would still need to import and you could use that same floor space to house hundreds of more people. Go look at my comment from a few minutes ago showing the production math for 5 stories of hydroponics. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 4 child comments replies: [β] Medic8teMe@lemmy.ca 1 point 1 year ago Aquaponics also has an issue with nutrient density so you would need more volume than traditional soil growing methods to create the same volume of nutrition. permalink fedilink source parent [β] Canconda@lemmy.ca -2 points 1 year ago (1 child) https://www.edengreen.com/blog-collection/vertical-farming-crop-yield-per-acre We're talking about 2 different things. I have zero interest in debunking all your strawmans and assumptions about a completely different concept. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [β] BlameThePeacock@lemmy.ca 4 points 1 year ago (1 child) Your article says it's 40:1 instead of the 10:1 I assumed, but that's still far too little to matter. Your two floors of farming would still feed less than a hundred people full time, even if they hit those lofty idea targets. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [β] Canconda@lemmy.ca -3 points 1 year ago* (1 child) You're the one inserting the assumption that this has to become the only source of food for people. I said: or source through a local network. If you can't read those words and comprehend them than why would I consider anything you have to say? permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [β] BlameThePeacock@lemmy.ca 4 points 1 year ago (1 child) What the fuck does local mean? I just showed you the math that even Los Angeles alone consumes more food than you can possibly grow in California. You're the one fucking around with "I want a greenhouse above my grocery store" with no real proof that it would matter or be a good use of space. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [β] grindemup@lemmy.world 4 points 1 year ago (1 child) You seem to be assuming that this idea would have to solve all food consumed by everyone. No one is making that assumption except for you. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [β] Canconda@lemmy.ca 1 point 1 year ago Thank you. I'm literally just trying to fix food banks not having enough food and a handful of people are insisting I've suggested this will replace Loblaws. permalink fedilink source parent
[β] BlameThePeacock@lemmy.ca 9 points 1 year ago (1 child) You could have 5 floors, and it still wouldn't be enough. You could have 30 floors and it wouldn't be enough. I don't think you understand the scale of farming to human. Even if you're entirely vegetarian it's on the order of 0.5-1 acre per person to grow the required food. That's 20,000-40,000 square feet. Even if hydroponics were involved and cut that by a factor of 10, you'd still be at 2000 square feet per person. A typical grocery store is 25-50,000 square feet, so let's go with the most generous and say 5 floors of 50,000 square feet you could produce enough food for.... 125 people. The math doesn't math. No reasonable amount of food growth is ever going to be possible inside a city. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [+] Canconda@lemmy.ca -7 points 1 year ago (1 child) What you said: typical grocery store What I said: IMO every city should have public cafeterias We're not talking about the same thing. You're arguing with yourself. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [β] AwesomeLowlander@sh.itjust.works 3 points 1 year ago (1 child) Replace grocery store with cafeteria, do you have an actual argument or are you just nitpicking? permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [β] Canconda@lemmy.ca 0 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (1 child) No I have an idea to fix food bank shortages, while creating jobs and teaching practical skills. The shortage that occurred collectively in your brains I have nothing for. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [β] AwesomeLowlander@sh.itjust.works 1 point 1 year ago (1 child) Look, I'm all for making the world a better place. So here's my 2c, from somebody who's tried and done it in a small manner. You'll need allies, partners. You'll face a lot of doubt and questions. If you meet it all with outright hostility, you're never going to get very far. Sure, we're all online randos, but if you can't muster a decent argument with all the time in the world, you're going to have a hard time persuading anybody in the real world. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [β] Canconda@lemmy.ca -1 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) do you have an actual argument or are you just nitpicking? And what part of that comment was indented to make me an ally or not perceive you as outrightly hostile? Cute adhominim at the end there. Couldn't resist could you? Ya hypocrite. permalink fedilink source parent
[+] Canconda@lemmy.ca -7 points 1 year ago (1 child) What you said: typical grocery store What I said: IMO every city should have public cafeterias We're not talking about the same thing. You're arguing with yourself. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [β] AwesomeLowlander@sh.itjust.works 3 points 1 year ago (1 child) Replace grocery store with cafeteria, do you have an actual argument or are you just nitpicking? permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [β] Canconda@lemmy.ca 0 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (1 child) No I have an idea to fix food bank shortages, while creating jobs and teaching practical skills. The shortage that occurred collectively in your brains I have nothing for. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [β] AwesomeLowlander@sh.itjust.works 1 point 1 year ago (1 child) Look, I'm all for making the world a better place. So here's my 2c, from somebody who's tried and done it in a small manner. You'll need allies, partners. You'll face a lot of doubt and questions. If you meet it all with outright hostility, you're never going to get very far. Sure, we're all online randos, but if you can't muster a decent argument with all the time in the world, you're going to have a hard time persuading anybody in the real world. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [β] Canconda@lemmy.ca -1 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) do you have an actual argument or are you just nitpicking? And what part of that comment was indented to make me an ally or not perceive you as outrightly hostile? Cute adhominim at the end there. Couldn't resist could you? Ya hypocrite. permalink fedilink source parent
[β] AwesomeLowlander@sh.itjust.works 3 points 1 year ago (1 child) Replace grocery store with cafeteria, do you have an actual argument or are you just nitpicking? permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [β] Canconda@lemmy.ca 0 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (1 child) No I have an idea to fix food bank shortages, while creating jobs and teaching practical skills. The shortage that occurred collectively in your brains I have nothing for. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [β] AwesomeLowlander@sh.itjust.works 1 point 1 year ago (1 child) Look, I'm all for making the world a better place. So here's my 2c, from somebody who's tried and done it in a small manner. You'll need allies, partners. You'll face a lot of doubt and questions. If you meet it all with outright hostility, you're never going to get very far. Sure, we're all online randos, but if you can't muster a decent argument with all the time in the world, you're going to have a hard time persuading anybody in the real world. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [β] Canconda@lemmy.ca -1 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) do you have an actual argument or are you just nitpicking? And what part of that comment was indented to make me an ally or not perceive you as outrightly hostile? Cute adhominim at the end there. Couldn't resist could you? Ya hypocrite. permalink fedilink source parent
[β] Canconda@lemmy.ca 0 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (1 child) No I have an idea to fix food bank shortages, while creating jobs and teaching practical skills. The shortage that occurred collectively in your brains I have nothing for. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [β] AwesomeLowlander@sh.itjust.works 1 point 1 year ago (1 child) Look, I'm all for making the world a better place. So here's my 2c, from somebody who's tried and done it in a small manner. You'll need allies, partners. You'll face a lot of doubt and questions. If you meet it all with outright hostility, you're never going to get very far. Sure, we're all online randos, but if you can't muster a decent argument with all the time in the world, you're going to have a hard time persuading anybody in the real world. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [β] Canconda@lemmy.ca -1 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) do you have an actual argument or are you just nitpicking? And what part of that comment was indented to make me an ally or not perceive you as outrightly hostile? Cute adhominim at the end there. Couldn't resist could you? Ya hypocrite. permalink fedilink source parent
[β] AwesomeLowlander@sh.itjust.works 1 point 1 year ago (1 child) Look, I'm all for making the world a better place. So here's my 2c, from somebody who's tried and done it in a small manner. You'll need allies, partners. You'll face a lot of doubt and questions. If you meet it all with outright hostility, you're never going to get very far. Sure, we're all online randos, but if you can't muster a decent argument with all the time in the world, you're going to have a hard time persuading anybody in the real world. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [β] Canconda@lemmy.ca -1 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) do you have an actual argument or are you just nitpicking? And what part of that comment was indented to make me an ally or not perceive you as outrightly hostile? Cute adhominim at the end there. Couldn't resist could you? Ya hypocrite. permalink fedilink source parent
[β] Canconda@lemmy.ca -1 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) do you have an actual argument or are you just nitpicking? And what part of that comment was indented to make me an ally or not perceive you as outrightly hostile? Cute adhominim at the end there. Couldn't resist could you? Ya hypocrite. permalink fedilink source parent
[β] Canconda@lemmy.ca 1 point 1 year ago* (1 child) My vision is Ground floor: Cafeteria / service kitchen 2nd Floor: Production Kitchen / food packaging 3rd Floor : Aquaponics & fertigation 4+ : greenhouse. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [β] BlameThePeacock@lemmy.ca 3 points 1 year ago (2 children) It's a nice utopian idea, but it just doesn't do anything. The aquaponics and greenhouse are just a bad utilization of such prime real estate space, the amount of food produced would be so low as to be a rounding error for the food they would still need to import and you could use that same floor space to house hundreds of more people. Go look at my comment from a few minutes ago showing the production math for 5 stories of hydroponics. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 4 child comments replies: [β] Medic8teMe@lemmy.ca 1 point 1 year ago Aquaponics also has an issue with nutrient density so you would need more volume than traditional soil growing methods to create the same volume of nutrition. permalink fedilink source parent [β] Canconda@lemmy.ca -2 points 1 year ago (1 child) https://www.edengreen.com/blog-collection/vertical-farming-crop-yield-per-acre We're talking about 2 different things. I have zero interest in debunking all your strawmans and assumptions about a completely different concept. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [β] BlameThePeacock@lemmy.ca 4 points 1 year ago (1 child) Your article says it's 40:1 instead of the 10:1 I assumed, but that's still far too little to matter. Your two floors of farming would still feed less than a hundred people full time, even if they hit those lofty idea targets. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [β] Canconda@lemmy.ca -3 points 1 year ago* (1 child) You're the one inserting the assumption that this has to become the only source of food for people. I said: or source through a local network. If you can't read those words and comprehend them than why would I consider anything you have to say? permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [β] BlameThePeacock@lemmy.ca 4 points 1 year ago (1 child) What the fuck does local mean? I just showed you the math that even Los Angeles alone consumes more food than you can possibly grow in California. You're the one fucking around with "I want a greenhouse above my grocery store" with no real proof that it would matter or be a good use of space. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [β] grindemup@lemmy.world 4 points 1 year ago (1 child) You seem to be assuming that this idea would have to solve all food consumed by everyone. No one is making that assumption except for you. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [β] Canconda@lemmy.ca 1 point 1 year ago Thank you. I'm literally just trying to fix food banks not having enough food and a handful of people are insisting I've suggested this will replace Loblaws. permalink fedilink source parent
[β] BlameThePeacock@lemmy.ca 3 points 1 year ago (2 children) It's a nice utopian idea, but it just doesn't do anything. The aquaponics and greenhouse are just a bad utilization of such prime real estate space, the amount of food produced would be so low as to be a rounding error for the food they would still need to import and you could use that same floor space to house hundreds of more people. Go look at my comment from a few minutes ago showing the production math for 5 stories of hydroponics. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 4 child comments replies: [β] Medic8teMe@lemmy.ca 1 point 1 year ago Aquaponics also has an issue with nutrient density so you would need more volume than traditional soil growing methods to create the same volume of nutrition. permalink fedilink source parent [β] Canconda@lemmy.ca -2 points 1 year ago (1 child) https://www.edengreen.com/blog-collection/vertical-farming-crop-yield-per-acre We're talking about 2 different things. I have zero interest in debunking all your strawmans and assumptions about a completely different concept. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [β] BlameThePeacock@lemmy.ca 4 points 1 year ago (1 child) Your article says it's 40:1 instead of the 10:1 I assumed, but that's still far too little to matter. Your two floors of farming would still feed less than a hundred people full time, even if they hit those lofty idea targets. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [β] Canconda@lemmy.ca -3 points 1 year ago* (1 child) You're the one inserting the assumption that this has to become the only source of food for people. I said: or source through a local network. If you can't read those words and comprehend them than why would I consider anything you have to say? permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [β] BlameThePeacock@lemmy.ca 4 points 1 year ago (1 child) What the fuck does local mean? I just showed you the math that even Los Angeles alone consumes more food than you can possibly grow in California. You're the one fucking around with "I want a greenhouse above my grocery store" with no real proof that it would matter or be a good use of space. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [β] grindemup@lemmy.world 4 points 1 year ago (1 child) You seem to be assuming that this idea would have to solve all food consumed by everyone. No one is making that assumption except for you. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [β] Canconda@lemmy.ca 1 point 1 year ago Thank you. I'm literally just trying to fix food banks not having enough food and a handful of people are insisting I've suggested this will replace Loblaws. permalink fedilink source parent
[β] Medic8teMe@lemmy.ca 1 point 1 year ago Aquaponics also has an issue with nutrient density so you would need more volume than traditional soil growing methods to create the same volume of nutrition. permalink fedilink source parent
[β] Canconda@lemmy.ca -2 points 1 year ago (1 child) https://www.edengreen.com/blog-collection/vertical-farming-crop-yield-per-acre We're talking about 2 different things. I have zero interest in debunking all your strawmans and assumptions about a completely different concept. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [β] BlameThePeacock@lemmy.ca 4 points 1 year ago (1 child) Your article says it's 40:1 instead of the 10:1 I assumed, but that's still far too little to matter. Your two floors of farming would still feed less than a hundred people full time, even if they hit those lofty idea targets. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [β] Canconda@lemmy.ca -3 points 1 year ago* (1 child) You're the one inserting the assumption that this has to become the only source of food for people. I said: or source through a local network. If you can't read those words and comprehend them than why would I consider anything you have to say? permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [β] BlameThePeacock@lemmy.ca 4 points 1 year ago (1 child) What the fuck does local mean? I just showed you the math that even Los Angeles alone consumes more food than you can possibly grow in California. You're the one fucking around with "I want a greenhouse above my grocery store" with no real proof that it would matter or be a good use of space. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [β] grindemup@lemmy.world 4 points 1 year ago (1 child) You seem to be assuming that this idea would have to solve all food consumed by everyone. No one is making that assumption except for you. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [β] Canconda@lemmy.ca 1 point 1 year ago Thank you. I'm literally just trying to fix food banks not having enough food and a handful of people are insisting I've suggested this will replace Loblaws. permalink fedilink source parent
[β] BlameThePeacock@lemmy.ca 4 points 1 year ago (1 child) Your article says it's 40:1 instead of the 10:1 I assumed, but that's still far too little to matter. Your two floors of farming would still feed less than a hundred people full time, even if they hit those lofty idea targets. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [β] Canconda@lemmy.ca -3 points 1 year ago* (1 child) You're the one inserting the assumption that this has to become the only source of food for people. I said: or source through a local network. If you can't read those words and comprehend them than why would I consider anything you have to say? permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [β] BlameThePeacock@lemmy.ca 4 points 1 year ago (1 child) What the fuck does local mean? I just showed you the math that even Los Angeles alone consumes more food than you can possibly grow in California. You're the one fucking around with "I want a greenhouse above my grocery store" with no real proof that it would matter or be a good use of space. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [β] grindemup@lemmy.world 4 points 1 year ago (1 child) You seem to be assuming that this idea would have to solve all food consumed by everyone. No one is making that assumption except for you. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [β] Canconda@lemmy.ca 1 point 1 year ago Thank you. I'm literally just trying to fix food banks not having enough food and a handful of people are insisting I've suggested this will replace Loblaws. permalink fedilink source parent
[β] Canconda@lemmy.ca -3 points 1 year ago* (1 child) You're the one inserting the assumption that this has to become the only source of food for people. I said: or source through a local network. If you can't read those words and comprehend them than why would I consider anything you have to say? permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [β] BlameThePeacock@lemmy.ca 4 points 1 year ago (1 child) What the fuck does local mean? I just showed you the math that even Los Angeles alone consumes more food than you can possibly grow in California. You're the one fucking around with "I want a greenhouse above my grocery store" with no real proof that it would matter or be a good use of space. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [β] grindemup@lemmy.world 4 points 1 year ago (1 child) You seem to be assuming that this idea would have to solve all food consumed by everyone. No one is making that assumption except for you. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [β] Canconda@lemmy.ca 1 point 1 year ago Thank you. I'm literally just trying to fix food banks not having enough food and a handful of people are insisting I've suggested this will replace Loblaws. permalink fedilink source parent
[β] BlameThePeacock@lemmy.ca 4 points 1 year ago (1 child) What the fuck does local mean? I just showed you the math that even Los Angeles alone consumes more food than you can possibly grow in California. You're the one fucking around with "I want a greenhouse above my grocery store" with no real proof that it would matter or be a good use of space. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [β] grindemup@lemmy.world 4 points 1 year ago (1 child) You seem to be assuming that this idea would have to solve all food consumed by everyone. No one is making that assumption except for you. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [β] Canconda@lemmy.ca 1 point 1 year ago Thank you. I'm literally just trying to fix food banks not having enough food and a handful of people are insisting I've suggested this will replace Loblaws. permalink fedilink source parent
[β] grindemup@lemmy.world 4 points 1 year ago (1 child) You seem to be assuming that this idea would have to solve all food consumed by everyone. No one is making that assumption except for you. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [β] Canconda@lemmy.ca 1 point 1 year ago Thank you. I'm literally just trying to fix food banks not having enough food and a handful of people are insisting I've suggested this will replace Loblaws. permalink fedilink source parent
[β] Canconda@lemmy.ca 1 point 1 year ago Thank you. I'm literally just trying to fix food banks not having enough food and a handful of people are insisting I've suggested this will replace Loblaws. permalink fedilink source parent
[β] octade@soc.octade.net -3 points 1 year ago (2 children) @Sunshine@piefed.ca What you propose has existed for decades. See the link: https://www.fns.usda.gov/summer/sitefinder permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 4 child comments replies: [β] grindemup@lemmy.world 4 points 1 year ago (1 child) Only available for children in the summer.. I don't think this isn't the solution being proposed. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [β] octade@soc.octade.net 0 points 1 year ago (1 child) It is a solution in search of a problem. And it would create far more expensive problems than it proposes to solve. The Soviets already did this kind of thing--the same Soviets who deliberately starved millions to death with manufactured food shortages. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [β] grindemup@lemmy.world 2 points 1 year ago (1 child) Is there a name for the fallacy that something is doomed to fail just because some quasi-communist state tried to implement something similar at some point? permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [β] octade@soc.octade.net 1 point 1 year ago (1 child) The fallacy is failing to understand the authoritarian spirit behind purported 'humanitarian' causes, especially those that involve using the deadly force of the state for funding. People who worship the idol of political power are generally lacking awareness of their own desire to boss others around. Failing to learn from history is part and parcel of the matter. Giving government ubiquitous control over the food supply has one result, and history has proved it a hundred times over. Complain all you want about greed in the market--government is near infinitely greedier. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [β] grindemup@lemmy.world 1 point 1 year ago* Alright friend, OP certainly never implied "giving government ubiquitous control over the food supply" by any means, so at least this is clearly a simple case of strawman fallacy. edit: like if you think about it for literally more than two seconds, you'll realize that OP's idea involved building capacity amongst the general population for horticulture, something which fundamentally opposes the idea of giving government ubiquitous control. permalink fedilink source parent [β] TORFdot0@lemmy.world 2 points 1 year ago (2 children) Our local school opened up one of these programs during the pandemic. Itβs a blessing but it only is for kids and only lasts 8 weeks during the summer permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 4 child comments replies: [β] Zexks@lemmy.world 2 points 1 year ago Lol. Welcome to 'growing seasons' permalink fedilink source parent [β] octade@soc.octade.net 0 points 1 year ago (1 child) @TORFdot0@lemmy.world The school cafeterias could remain open 24/7 for everyone. Sure, taxes would go up about 50% or so, but free sloppy joes would be well worth it, amirite? permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [β] socialsecurity@piefed.social 1 point 1 year ago Our society lacks sufficient trust to have something work like this. Also, there certainly going to be negative externalities when mixing kids with the poor. I doubt anyone would sign on this security wise. Schools are already border line prison conditions in the US. permalink fedilink source parent
[β] grindemup@lemmy.world 4 points 1 year ago (1 child) Only available for children in the summer.. I don't think this isn't the solution being proposed. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [β] octade@soc.octade.net 0 points 1 year ago (1 child) It is a solution in search of a problem. And it would create far more expensive problems than it proposes to solve. The Soviets already did this kind of thing--the same Soviets who deliberately starved millions to death with manufactured food shortages. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [β] grindemup@lemmy.world 2 points 1 year ago (1 child) Is there a name for the fallacy that something is doomed to fail just because some quasi-communist state tried to implement something similar at some point? permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [β] octade@soc.octade.net 1 point 1 year ago (1 child) The fallacy is failing to understand the authoritarian spirit behind purported 'humanitarian' causes, especially those that involve using the deadly force of the state for funding. People who worship the idol of political power are generally lacking awareness of their own desire to boss others around. Failing to learn from history is part and parcel of the matter. Giving government ubiquitous control over the food supply has one result, and history has proved it a hundred times over. Complain all you want about greed in the market--government is near infinitely greedier. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [β] grindemup@lemmy.world 1 point 1 year ago* Alright friend, OP certainly never implied "giving government ubiquitous control over the food supply" by any means, so at least this is clearly a simple case of strawman fallacy. edit: like if you think about it for literally more than two seconds, you'll realize that OP's idea involved building capacity amongst the general population for horticulture, something which fundamentally opposes the idea of giving government ubiquitous control. permalink fedilink source parent
[β] octade@soc.octade.net 0 points 1 year ago (1 child) It is a solution in search of a problem. And it would create far more expensive problems than it proposes to solve. The Soviets already did this kind of thing--the same Soviets who deliberately starved millions to death with manufactured food shortages. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [β] grindemup@lemmy.world 2 points 1 year ago (1 child) Is there a name for the fallacy that something is doomed to fail just because some quasi-communist state tried to implement something similar at some point? permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [β] octade@soc.octade.net 1 point 1 year ago (1 child) The fallacy is failing to understand the authoritarian spirit behind purported 'humanitarian' causes, especially those that involve using the deadly force of the state for funding. People who worship the idol of political power are generally lacking awareness of their own desire to boss others around. Failing to learn from history is part and parcel of the matter. Giving government ubiquitous control over the food supply has one result, and history has proved it a hundred times over. Complain all you want about greed in the market--government is near infinitely greedier. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [β] grindemup@lemmy.world 1 point 1 year ago* Alright friend, OP certainly never implied "giving government ubiquitous control over the food supply" by any means, so at least this is clearly a simple case of strawman fallacy. edit: like if you think about it for literally more than two seconds, you'll realize that OP's idea involved building capacity amongst the general population for horticulture, something which fundamentally opposes the idea of giving government ubiquitous control. permalink fedilink source parent
[β] grindemup@lemmy.world 2 points 1 year ago (1 child) Is there a name for the fallacy that something is doomed to fail just because some quasi-communist state tried to implement something similar at some point? permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [β] octade@soc.octade.net 1 point 1 year ago (1 child) The fallacy is failing to understand the authoritarian spirit behind purported 'humanitarian' causes, especially those that involve using the deadly force of the state for funding. People who worship the idol of political power are generally lacking awareness of their own desire to boss others around. Failing to learn from history is part and parcel of the matter. Giving government ubiquitous control over the food supply has one result, and history has proved it a hundred times over. Complain all you want about greed in the market--government is near infinitely greedier. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [β] grindemup@lemmy.world 1 point 1 year ago* Alright friend, OP certainly never implied "giving government ubiquitous control over the food supply" by any means, so at least this is clearly a simple case of strawman fallacy. edit: like if you think about it for literally more than two seconds, you'll realize that OP's idea involved building capacity amongst the general population for horticulture, something which fundamentally opposes the idea of giving government ubiquitous control. permalink fedilink source parent
[β] octade@soc.octade.net 1 point 1 year ago (1 child) The fallacy is failing to understand the authoritarian spirit behind purported 'humanitarian' causes, especially those that involve using the deadly force of the state for funding. People who worship the idol of political power are generally lacking awareness of their own desire to boss others around. Failing to learn from history is part and parcel of the matter. Giving government ubiquitous control over the food supply has one result, and history has proved it a hundred times over. Complain all you want about greed in the market--government is near infinitely greedier. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [β] grindemup@lemmy.world 1 point 1 year ago* Alright friend, OP certainly never implied "giving government ubiquitous control over the food supply" by any means, so at least this is clearly a simple case of strawman fallacy. edit: like if you think about it for literally more than two seconds, you'll realize that OP's idea involved building capacity amongst the general population for horticulture, something which fundamentally opposes the idea of giving government ubiquitous control. permalink fedilink source parent
[β] grindemup@lemmy.world 1 point 1 year ago* Alright friend, OP certainly never implied "giving government ubiquitous control over the food supply" by any means, so at least this is clearly a simple case of strawman fallacy. edit: like if you think about it for literally more than two seconds, you'll realize that OP's idea involved building capacity amongst the general population for horticulture, something which fundamentally opposes the idea of giving government ubiquitous control. permalink fedilink source parent
[β] TORFdot0@lemmy.world 2 points 1 year ago (2 children) Our local school opened up one of these programs during the pandemic. Itβs a blessing but it only is for kids and only lasts 8 weeks during the summer permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 4 child comments replies: [β] Zexks@lemmy.world 2 points 1 year ago Lol. Welcome to 'growing seasons' permalink fedilink source parent [β] octade@soc.octade.net 0 points 1 year ago (1 child) @TORFdot0@lemmy.world The school cafeterias could remain open 24/7 for everyone. Sure, taxes would go up about 50% or so, but free sloppy joes would be well worth it, amirite? permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [β] socialsecurity@piefed.social 1 point 1 year ago Our society lacks sufficient trust to have something work like this. Also, there certainly going to be negative externalities when mixing kids with the poor. I doubt anyone would sign on this security wise. Schools are already border line prison conditions in the US. permalink fedilink source parent
[β] Zexks@lemmy.world 2 points 1 year ago Lol. Welcome to 'growing seasons' permalink fedilink source parent
[β] octade@soc.octade.net 0 points 1 year ago (1 child) @TORFdot0@lemmy.world The school cafeterias could remain open 24/7 for everyone. Sure, taxes would go up about 50% or so, but free sloppy joes would be well worth it, amirite? permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [β] socialsecurity@piefed.social 1 point 1 year ago Our society lacks sufficient trust to have something work like this. Also, there certainly going to be negative externalities when mixing kids with the poor. I doubt anyone would sign on this security wise. Schools are already border line prison conditions in the US. permalink fedilink source parent
[β] socialsecurity@piefed.social 1 point 1 year ago Our society lacks sufficient trust to have something work like this. Also, there certainly going to be negative externalities when mixing kids with the poor. I doubt anyone would sign on this security wise. Schools are already border line prison conditions in the US. permalink fedilink source parent