A pirated car would just be a more free way to access the $10k/yr pay wall you live your life behind. Car-dominant infrastructure is vendor lock in.

Edit: fixed picture

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[–] 46 points 2 years ago (3 children)

Everything is crackable, I bet the software in the car is as cheaply made as everything else

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    [–] 41 points 2 years ago* (3 children)

    It's kinda depressing to see bunch of people who support the subscription model in my post comments for something that you already paid & own

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  • [–] 18 points 2 years ago (2 children)

    As they pointed out in your original post, it's not, "the subscription model...for something that you already paid & own." This isn't subscription seat warmers, it's paying for an additional service outside the car. You can argue it's too expensive, but without their internet connection and servers, these features wouldn't be possible.

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  • [–] 16 points 2 years ago (1 child)

    Remote start has been around for well over a decade and did not require internet or a subscription. If you just subscribe and use the feature then clearly the neccesary equipment for remote start is already installed and you paid for that equipment regardless if you use the subscription service.

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  • [–] 4 points 2 years ago (2 children)

    @FireRetardant @n2burns Remote start can mean different things. I'd hope a subscription based one was via a server and works where normal direct RF fobs wouldn't (like from another country).

    If it is just direct RF based remote start that shouldn't be a subscription.

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  • [–] 8 points 2 years ago (2 children)

    So what happens when your car has no cell service? Or you don't own a phone that supports the app? The only use case I can see is long distance remote start but I'm struggling to determine why someone would reasonably need that.

    The only reasons they went away from RF is to justify subscriptions and further push the smart device trend where everything can connect to your phone.

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  • [–] 3 points 2 years ago (7 children)

    RF range is very limited and there is no feedback of success/failure or current state. My neighbour's RF remote start wouldn't work through 2 townhouses. It also doesn't work from high-rises or office building.

    How often do you lose cell reception in a parking lot? (Mostly open space with few things to interfere with cell signal).

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  • [–] 6 points 2 years ago (4 children)

    There's no need to host servers for 99% (maybe 100%) of this stuff. All the remote start features can be done through a direct connection between your phone and car. There's no need for a third computer to be involved, except to check if you've paid for it. As long as your car has wifi access (or phone network access, which would need to be paid for) then it can communicate with other devices on the network/internet. Sure, you still have to pay for the internet, but that's paid to the ISP, not the car company.

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  • [–] 6 points 2 years ago (5 children)

    Features like this really do require a subscription model. This isn’t enabling remote start by pressing a key on your fob. This is sending a request to a server, which connects to a cell tower to broadcast signal saying “turn on this car”. That stuff ain’t free. Someone has to pay AT&T for the data connection.

    What BMW was (is?) doing is abhorrent. You’re buying a car with heated seats, and you have to subscribe to hit the button.

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  • [–] 8 points 2 years ago (2 children)

    Features like this really do require a subscription model. This isn’t enabling remote start by pressing a key on your fob. This is sending a request to a server, which connects to a cell tower to broadcast signal saying “turn on this car”. That stuff ain’t free. Someone has to pay AT&T for the data connection.

    Only because they unethically intentionally designed it that way, when they could've just as easily picked a different design that could've worked entirely locally. They are inventing excuses for rentiership.

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  • [–] 8 points 2 years ago (1 child)

    They almost always do offer a key fob based remote start option in addition to their app based remote start.

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  • [–] 3 points 2 years ago

    Well, the manufacturer rarely does but the dealership often tries to sell them as an added revenue stream.

    They vary from OK to dreadful. But it's still an option vs this remote services system if you don't like it.

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  • [–] [S] 4 points 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago)

    IMHO, It makes sense though. Piracy and open source are two approaches to attacking the enclosure of public (intellectual) space. Roads for cars are literally an enclosure of public space. The subscription model just extends from this logic.

    Edit: These are also things that make sense because the car has to have cell service via a provider.

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  • [–] 20 points 2 years ago (9 children)

    These are things that need a subscription, though... These are remote features that require internet connectivity and application serving. Things that don't just come with a one-time fee. These are actual services being provided by Kia or Hyundai. This isn't the same as putting a hardware feature of your car behind an arbitrary pay wall.

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  • [–] 3 points 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago)

    yeah, i agree. it costs them money so there's little to no incentive to run that stuff for free.
    also the price is reasonable (about as much as a single Nano ec2 instance on aws + mobile plan that's required to connect the car to the internet) and pretty much negligible when compared to amount of money you'll be spending on that vehicle anyway.
    then there are privacy concerns tho. do you trust kia with knowledge of your exact car location, 24/7? (I'd assume it doesn't connect to their servers without the subscription?)
    also that information (Exact location of all kia vehicles, with exact model numbers and registration information) seems like a goldmine for car thieves if leaked (or accessed by a third party.)
    also, fuck heated seat other hardware/local software subscriptions

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    [–] 19 points 2 years ago (2 children)

    Don't worry there will be some vulnerability with the CPU that they wouldn't be able to patch out fully.

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  • [–] 15 points 2 years ago (3 children)

    I mean some people figured out how to crack a tesla to enable all the features including the secret "Elon" mode so.

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  • [–] 8 points 2 years ago (1 child)

    Curious, what was the "secret Elon Mode" about?

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  • [–] 27 points 2 years ago (1 child)

    Full self-driving without driver monitoring.

    https://www.theverge.com/2023/6/20/23767041/tesla-hacker-elon-mode-hands-free-full-self-driving-autopilot

    Which is just fantastically dangerous and poorly advised. Very appropriate for it to be called "Elon mode," if nothing else.

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    [–] 12 points 2 years ago (1 child)
  • [–] 12 points 2 years ago

    Hell yeah! Fuck car dependent infrastructure!

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  • [–] 11 points 2 years ago*

    I remember back in the old days when remote start was a thing you paid someone to install in your car and, in those days, “remote climate” was remote start plus remembering to set it on high before your got out.

    Subscriptions are dumb, you should be able to buy these outright, but there are people who can’t so 🤷🏻‍♀️

    Edit: but for remote lock and alarm, those have been around for ages. That should come standard.

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  • [–] 7 points 2 years ago

    "You wouldn't download a car?"

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  • [+] 6 points 2 years ago (1 child)
  • [–] 5 points 2 years ago*

    If this isn't a lease then it will never hold up in any state court, John Deere and Apple already tried something similar to this over right to repair and lost miserably in every state it was tried in. I'm actually surprised they tried this after the epic payout John Deere had to make after the class action lawsuit against them.

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  • [–] 5 points 2 years ago

    I think a lot of this conversation boils down to someone needing to make an ESP32 device that sits in your OBD port and can be addressed directly for those who have a car that can connect to your home WiFi. I feel like one of those already exists...

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