this post was submitted on 21 Jan 2024

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Fuck Cars

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Yes... pirated cars will definitely fix the problem (slrpnk.net)

submitted 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago) by hex_m_hell@slrpnk.net to c/fuck_cars@lemmy.ml

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A pirated car would just be a more free way to access the $10k/yr pay wall you live your life behind. Car-dominant infrastructure is vendor lock in.

Edit: fixed picture

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[–] n2burns@lemmy.ca 18 points 2 years ago (2 children)

As they pointed out in your original post, it's not, "the subscription model...for something that you already paid & own." This isn't subscription seat warmers, it's paying for an additional service outside the car. You can argue it's too expensive, but without their internet connection and servers, these features wouldn't be possible.

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[–] FireRetardant@lemmy.world 16 points 2 years ago (1 child)

Remote start has been around for well over a decade and did not require internet or a subscription. If you just subscribe and use the feature then clearly the neccesary equipment for remote start is already installed and you paid for that equipment regardless if you use the subscription service.

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[–] LovesTha@floss.social 4 points 2 years ago (2 children)

@FireRetardant @n2burns Remote start can mean different things. I'd hope a subscription based one was via a server and works where normal direct RF fobs wouldn't (like from another country).

If it is just direct RF based remote start that shouldn't be a subscription.

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[–] Professorozone@lemmy.world 11 points 2 years ago (1 child)

Why would anyone need to start a car from another country?

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[–] LovesTha@floss.social 1 point 2 years ago (1 child)

@Professorozone Yes that would be a bit silly (but could be useful to do for your SO when they have an issue while you are on a trip). But just from the top of a tall housing tower to a car in the basement needs something better than a RF fob

The curfew alert could be more applicable when in another country.

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[–] Professorozone@lemmy.world 4 points 2 years ago

But that would be more like a "keyless driving feature" than remote start, wouldn't it?

Yeah, I suppose a longer distance remote start would be more useful.

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[–] FireRetardant@lemmy.world 8 points 2 years ago (2 children)

So what happens when your car has no cell service? Or you don't own a phone that supports the app? The only use case I can see is long distance remote start but I'm struggling to determine why someone would reasonably need that.

The only reasons they went away from RF is to justify subscriptions and further push the smart device trend where everything can connect to your phone.

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[–] n2burns@lemmy.ca 3 points 2 years ago (3 children)

RF range is very limited and there is no feedback of success/failure or current state. My neighbour's RF remote start wouldn't work through 2 townhouses. It also doesn't work from high-rises or office building.

How often do you lose cell reception in a parking lot? (Mostly open space with few things to interfere with cell signal).

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[–] Juvyn00b@lemmy.world 4 points 2 years ago (1 child)

You are aware that there are rf solutions that provide feedback? Not saying range limitations don't exist, but there are solutions that claim to provide a fair reach.

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[–] n2burns@lemmy.ca 1 point 2 years ago

I am aware. I didn't think it was necessary to explain that it's possible to make an data stream reliable, but doing so requires a lot more power which isn't great for a coin-cell battery.

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[–] LovesTha@floss.social 2 points 2 years ago (1 child)

@n2burns @FireRetardant Basement car parks can be pretty bad for connectivity.

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[–] n2burns@lemmy.ca 1 point 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago) (1 child)

If you're in a basement, you don't need remote start. It's really only for when your car is exposed to the elements.

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[–] FireRetardant@lemmy.world 1 point 2 years ago (1 child)

Basement parking garages are not necessarily heated so remote start could still be useful during cold weather.

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[–] n2burns@lemmy.ca 1 point 2 years ago

Not heated, but slightly insulated. When I was in Manitoba, that meant most parking structures were roughly 15°C-20°C than outside.

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[–] johnyma22@lemmy.ml 1 point 2 years ago* (1 child)

RF range is very limited

RF range deployed by most vehicles, yes. Not all RF is equal in range capability.

See "Frequency bands" https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Radio_frequency

Below 3 Hz >10(power 5) km

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[–] n2burns@lemmy.ca 1 point 2 years ago

I'm very aware of RF bands. I didn't think I needed to explain how RF worked, why the range of a car remote is so limited, and why is impractical to use a lower band. As the frequency gets lower, the data throughout decreases and the size of the antenna should increase.

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[–] LovesTha@floss.social 2 points 2 years ago

@FireRetardant Also no one is implying network based should be the only method.

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[–] Cethin@lemmy.zip 6 points 2 years ago (1 child)

There's no need to host servers for 99% (maybe 100%) of this stuff. All the remote start features can be done through a direct connection between your phone and car. There's no need for a third computer to be involved, except to check if you've paid for it. As long as your car has wifi access (or phone network access, which would need to be paid for) then it can communicate with other devices on the network/internet. Sure, you still have to pay for the internet, but that's paid to the ISP, not the car company.

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[–] n2burns@lemmy.ca 1 point 2 years ago (1 child)

I'm not sure which direct connection you're thinking of, but for most phones that would be limited to WiFi (probably WiFi Direct), Bluetooth, and maybe NFC. NFC range is tiny and Bluetooth's is pretty small. WiFi's range is approximately the same thing as an RF remote, which isn't great.

Also, if we did have direct connection (which would be great for confirming the start worked, and the status of the car), why would we need internet??

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[–] Cethin@lemmy.zip 1 point 2 years ago (1 child)

By direct I meant routing to the car and user device, not through company servers. There's no need for that. Both devices are computers. The only reason the company would need it routed through them first is to make sure you've paid up.

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[–] n2burns@lemmy.ca 3 points 2 years ago (1 child)

That would mean the vehicle still needs an internet connection, presumably a cell connection, which is a service.
Removing the manufacturer's server would make the car the server, and would mean exposing your car to the whole internet. That's a bad plan.

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[–] Cethin@lemmy.zip 1 point 2 years ago

Yes, I mentioned that. However, the cell plan would be a lot cheaper. There shouldn't be a lot of data coming through.
It would mean exposing it as much as any other device is exposed. It'd have a port open and listening for communication. Honestly, I'm pretty sure it'd be identical to how it is currently. It's not like sending the communication from the company server is any different than from any other device. Its not connecting directly to the company's servers. It's a wireless service. Sure, it needs security measures, but it already needs that.

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