cross-posted from: https://lemmy.world/post/43768262

Some may have believed they were against AI being used for war. They just don’t want it to make the final kill decision.

The argument given by those supporting them is that AI in the military was inevitable, so their position is a reasonable one.

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[–] 92 points 5 months ago (1 child)

Well yeah, Anthropic's statement said as much. And they already had a contract with the DoD. This isn't a gotcha.

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  • [–] 55 points 5 months ago (1 child)

    When mainstream media and various celebrities have cast Anthropic as the "good guy", it's important to point out.

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  • [–] 4 points 5 months ago (1 child)

    I mean, yeah. They're the only ones trying to hold out some reasonable constraints.

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  • [–] 14 points 5 months ago* (1 child)

    No. They aren't the "good guy," and they don't need to be lauded as such.

    Anthropic has been willing to throw away so many reasonable constraints, and they always have. The companies are disturbingly similar, and Anthropic is worse in some ways.

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  • [–] 5 points 5 months ago (1 child)

    There’s enough distrust and conspiracy theorist in me to question if the whole thing isn’t a good cop/bad cop publicity stunt to attract “conscientious” consumers.

    “Hey all you anti-authoritarian, anti-AI, anti-surveillance types, we’re your friend; we’re the un-AI. Now be good idiots and plot your dissent on our service.”

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  • [–] 5 points 5 months ago

    Mark Zuckerberg, Elon Musk, Sam Altman, Sam Bankman-Fried, etc all positioned themselves as the Cool/Good Guy who was better than all the others. Dario Amodei is just playing using the same playbook.

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  • [–] 31 points 5 months ago (2 children)

    Anthropic had only 2 rules

    1. No fully automated killings

    2. No mass surveillance

    You could automate killing with an approval by someone but trump still wanted to lift these restrictions

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  • [–] 22 points 5 months ago

    The CEO was VERY clear about this in his interview with Larry Ellison's CBS News.

    https://youtu.be/MPTNHrq_4LU

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  • [–] 18 points 5 months ago (3 children)

    My understanding is that it's not military use broadly that they object to but the use of their systems for the development of fully autonomous drones.

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  • [–] 6 points 5 months ago

    This is incorrect.

    Anthropic contradicts this, showing an aggressive willingness to work with the Trump department of "War."

    Even fully autonomous weapons (those that take humans out of the loop entirely and automate selecting and engaging targets) may prove critical for our national defense... We have offered to work directly with the Department of War on R&D to improve the reliability of these systems

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  • [+] -3 points 5 months ago* (last edited 5 months ago) (1 child)
  • [–] 13 points 5 months ago* (1 child)

    Here's the full quote including the parts you conveniently left out.

    Even fully autonomous weapons (those that take humans out of the loop entirely and automate selecting and engaging targets) may prove critical for our national defense. But today, frontier AI systems are simply not reliable enough to power fully autonomous weapons. We will not knowingly provide a product that puts America’s warfighters and civilians at risk. We have offered to work directly with the Department of War on R&D to improve the reliability of these systems, but they have not accepted this offer.

    Our strong preference is to continue to serve the Department and our warfighters—with our two requested safeguards in place.

    Source

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  • [–] 0 points 5 months ago* (last edited 5 months ago) (1 child)

    You said Anthropic didn't want to develop autonomous weapons. Anthropic contradicts you. They do want to develop them.

    Can you acknowledge this fact?

    I love how Anthropic only draws the line at autonomously killing Americans, too. I guess some lives are worth more than others.

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  • [–] 2 points 5 months ago (2 children)

    You have a point, but perhaps try a softer tone next time. I think that would help your argument.

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  • [–] 2 points 5 months ago (1 child)

    It's not a very solid point. They said they may become necessary at some point, but right now they're irresponsible.

    They're not ruling it out in the future, but their focus is on today's problem.

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  • [–] 1 point 5 months ago (1 child)

    Serinus, did you see the part where Anthropic wants to develop them with the US military?

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  • [–] 1 point 5 months ago* (last edited 5 months ago) (2 children)

    with our two requested safeguards in place.

    Said safeguards being that their technology isn't being used for mass surveillance or the development of autonomous drones. It's explicitly mentioned in their statement - the one you're desperately trying to massage and misquote to make it seem like they're saying something they're not - yet anyone can just go and read it themselves

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  • [–] 1 point 5 months ago (1 child)

    Iconoclast, you have moved beyond accidental deception into intentional lies.

    Anthropic offered to work directly with the Department of "War" on R&D to improve the reliability of autonomous bombing systems.

    That's what your link says. Do you deny this explicit fact?

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  • [–] 1 point 5 months ago (1 child)

    That's your intrepretation - not a direct quote.

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  • [–] 1 point 5 months ago (1 child)

    Iconoclast, don't be disingenuous.

    The direct quote is "We have offered to work directly with the Department of War on R&D to improve the reliability of these systems". "We" meaning Anthropic. "These systems" meaning fully autonomous weapons.

    Do you acknowledge they did this? Try not to weasel out of answering with more pedantry. It's almost as disturbing as your apparent defense of that Silicon Valley AI cult.

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  • [–] 1 point 5 months ago (1 child)

    They are not willing to let their current models (Claude) be used in fully autonomous weapons right now, because they believe today’s frontier AI is still too unreliable and prone to errors. They explicitly say they “will not knowingly provide a product that puts America’s warfighters and civilians at risk.”

    However, they have offered to work directly with the Department of Defense on R&D to improve the reliability of autonomous weapons technology in general (with our two requested safeguards in place) - so that in the future these systems might become safe and trustworthy enough to use.

    They're not ideologically against autonomous weapons systems. They're against ones that run on our current AI models.

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  • [–] 1 point 5 months ago

    They're not ideologically against autonomous weapons systems.

    Exactly. Which should have you condemning their warmonger ambitions, if you had moral consistency.

    so that in the future these systems might become safe and trustworthy enough to use.

    Which becomes true to them as soon as it doesn't kill Americans.

    It's okay, you can just say you endorse America building autonomous weapons to wipe out people of any nationality. You can acknowledge that doing this is a Green Line according to Warmonger Dario Amodei. I support you coming out of that closet.

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  • [–] 1 point 5 months ago

    Iconoclast, I see you edited your post after I replied. You did not answer whether you accept the fact that Anthropic explicitly wanted to develop fully autonomous AI alongside the Trump Department of "War."

    Either you're lying, or you're the one desperately trying to reshape the truth.

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  • [–] 17 points 5 months ago (1 child)

    Soldier: "Help me find my targets in this crowd"

    *AI highlights various targets spread around the crowd AI: "I have highlighted your targets for you. You can pull the trigger whenever you're ready. 👍🔫💥"

    *Pulls trigger without double checking anything. 10 random civilians are murdered. Soldier: "You targeted the wrong people! You were supposed to only target enemy combatants!"

    AI: "You're absolutely right. I targeted 10 people in the crowd at random. Would you like me to try targeting enemy combatants this time?"

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  • [–] 6 points 5 months ago

    Still, Skynet downgraded to ad-interrupted AI girlfriends may be a less scary skynet.

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  • [–] 2 points 5 months ago (7 children)

    Is there a "good-ish" AI chatbot? I uninstalled chatgpt and started using claude over the weekend 🤡

    I don't use it that much, maybe a couple of questions a week and some help understanding Japanese grammar

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  • [–] 13 points 5 months ago

    Depends on your definition, Anthropic has been the somewhat less evil on the scene, doing a lot of research to actually understand what they're building instead of just making bold claims whenever they launch a new model, but it's still relative to huge AI companies. The more ethical choice would be local models, again depending on what you see as the ethical issues of AI

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  • [–] 7 points 5 months ago (1 child)

    Depends on your definition of "good-ish". Do you mean:

    • performance/accuracy?
    • ethical origin?
    • ethical ongoing operation?
    • privacy/future data harvesting concerns?

    Running one locally on your own hardware would likely reach "good-ish" with some sacrifices against performance/accuracy (unless you've got a lot of expensive hardware to run very large models). As far as ethical origins, there are few small models trained on public domain/nonstolen content, but their functions are far more limited.

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  • [–] 1 point 5 months ago (1 child)

    I mean good-ish in the lesser-evil type of thing. I don't expect any of those to be 100% ethical but there are some that are a lot worse than others

    I don't really have a computer capable of running a local AI. I have an i3 laptop from around 6 years ago with 12gb of RAM and integrated graphics

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  • [–] 3 points 5 months ago

    I mean good-ish in the lesser-evil type of thing. I don’t expect any of those to be 100% ethical but there are some that are a lot worse than others

    Ethics are subjective. "Good-ish" to you may mean you're fine if its trained on copyrighted works as long as it wasn't done with electricity from diesel generators belching exhaust into the local Memphis atmosphere (I'm looking at you Grok). Llama doesn't do the diesel generator thing, but its a product of Facebook corporation. So is that "good-ish" to you or not? I don't know. That's up to you.

    It may not be fast, but your i3 laptop with 12GB of system RAM can absolutely run a local LLM. This is where that "performance/accuracy" question I raised comes in. It won't be very fast, and you won't be able to run the most common large models like GPT-5 etc. However, if your needs are light, light models exist. Give this a read

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  • [–] 5 points 5 months ago* (last edited 5 months ago)

    I'm quite happy with Mistrals LeChat. I have not done much research on Mistral but from the headlines I read they don't seem like bad guys.

    The general quality of the answers is slightly worse than chat gpt (IMO). But I like some features like agents and document libraries in the free tier

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  • [–] 2 points 5 months ago

    If you can't validate the answers it gives, I would recommend not using it. It could be giving you complete nonsense in Japanese and you'll have no way to know until years later someone looks at you funny when you say something and you explain "I learned Japanese from chatgpt".

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  • [–] 1 point 5 months ago (1 child)

    If by "good" you mean one that more reliably answers your questions correctly, then no. That's not really what these systems are good at. They're fully capable of giving a solid, accurate answer, but you can simply never trust it to be correct. They're great for chit-chat and bouncing around ideas if you're into that, but it's not an oracle.

    When it comes to translating languages, that's one of the few things LLMs are actually somewhat decent at, and I don't think there's much difference between them in that regard.

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  • [–] 1 point 5 months ago

    They had a long standing contract with the Pentagon. There was a weeks long fight between said Pentagon and Anthropic on how the software is licensed.

    And you realize just now that Claude is used by the Pentagon?

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