▲ 305 ▼ The Antinatalism subreddit basically promoting eugenics against autistic people (lemmy.world) submitted 2 years ago by STRIKINGdebate2@lemmy.world to c/autism@lemmy.world 348 comments fedilink hide all child comments
[+] Lols@lemm.ee -11 points 2 years ago (1 child) supposedly permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] FlyingSquid@lemmy.world 6 points 2 years ago (1 child) Do tell us your theory. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [+] Lols@lemm.ee -12 points 2 years ago (1 child) no thanks, but if youve got some proof id be happy to read it permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] FlyingSquid@lemmy.world 2 points 2 years ago (1 child) So you don't have any idea why so many people on the spectrum commit suicide but you don't think it's the way they're regularly mistreated? permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] Lols@lemm.ee 1 point 2 years ago* (1 child) i think that the mistreatment of folks with autism is not enough to explain to have this high of a suicide rate, and that autism does just make life harder to deal with, regardless of discrimination permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] FlyingSquid@lemmy.world 1 point 2 years ago (1 child) And yet you have no other answers. So until you have them, that seems to be a good working theory. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] Lols@lemm.ee 0 points 2 years ago (2 children) i think working off answers we do have is a better idea, actually such as suicide being one of the top three causes of death for autistic people. The other two being heart disease and epilepsy complications, and them on average dying under 50 years of age. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 4 child comments replies: [–] moitoi@feddit.de 5 points 2 years ago (1 child) I suggest to read more than one article about the double empathy problem at first. We have multiple papers stating it's the way we are mistreated the issue. Autists don't have a lack of empathy, communication, socialization, non verbal language, etc. We express them in a different way, an Autistic way! This is as valid as the neurotypical way. We need to stop internalizing ableism and self blaming us for everything and nothing. These are direct consequences of mistreatments too. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] Lols@lemm.ee 0 points 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago) (1 child) im sure that mistreatment is part of the issue im also sure that autism does, at least often, come with real internal stressors that are not the result of their treatment by others, and that make dealing with external stressors more difficult i dont take an issue with the added context of conscious or subconscious ableism (though i think its besides the point here, because cruel or not, its still something potential children will still have to deal with) i think its important to remember that even if that wasnt a factor, autism will often still impact the quality of life of potential children permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] moitoi@feddit.de 3 points 2 years ago (1 child) The issue with your explanation is that autism isn't an illness nor a disease nor a disorder. It's a neurotype, a neurological difference. It doesn't come with a difference in neurology. It's a different neurology. They're no normal neurology. All of them are egal and valid. When one of them exercises a pressure to be the one, the norm, and doesn't let the others exist, it's discrimination against a minority. This ends with a high suicide number. It has deep implications with trauma, PTSD, cptsd, depression and other mental health issues from a very young age to elderly. When you can't cope anymore, you ... And yeah, it's internalized ableism to blame ourselves. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] Lols@lemm.ee -1 points 2 years ago* whether autism is or is not an illness, disease or disorder has no bearing on what i said you seem to be misinterpreting my comment as being a judgement of value on autism or autistic folks, which it is not my point is based on the common symptoms, effects and predispositions of autism, especially ones that cannot be pinned on mistreatment completely and entirely regardless of whether it is a 'valid' or 'normal' neurology or not, and completely and entirely regardless of whether autistic folks can or cannot be blamed for any of it permalink fedilink source parent [–] FlyingSquid@lemmy.world 2 points 2 years ago (1 child) How is that an idea of what the cause of suicide is? Where is the explanation of cause there? Because I gave an explanation of the cause. So far, all you've done is play coy. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] Lols@lemm.ee 1 point 2 years ago* (1 child) you didnt give an explanation of the cause, you seemingly pulled something out your ass and didnt like when i didnt immediately accept it as fact permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] FlyingSquid@lemmy.world 3 points 2 years ago (1 child) You think the widespread mistreatment of autistic people is something I invented? Really? permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] Lols@lemm.ee 0 points 2 years ago* (1 child) im going to assume the complete misinterpretation is genuine and not just strawmanning no, i think that the high suicide rates being exclusively due to mistreatment is something you pulled out your ass, especially since the response to 'do you have proof' was not 'yes, here you go' permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] FlyingSquid@lemmy.world 3 points 2 years ago* (1 child) I never said anything about it being exclusively due to mistreatment. That is something you made up. And I admitted I didn't have evidence, so I have no idea why you're complaining about me not having evidence. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] Lols@lemm.ee 2 points 2 years ago* (1 child) Yes, but that’s not due to autism, that’s due to the way society treats autistic people must be me, but i read that as pretty explicit and unambiguously exclusive language And I admitted I didn’t have evidence, so I have no idea why you’re complaining about me not having evidence. because i think going 'well thats wrong, heres whats actually happening' with 0 evidence is actually a pretty weird thing to do, as is maintaining that it just has to be true when challenged permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] FlyingSquid@lemmy.world 1 point 2 years ago (1 child) Yes, it must be you. If I had meant it to be exclusive, I would have said "that is not solely due to autism, that is solely due to the way society treats autistic people" But please, continue to berate me for not having the evidence I admit I don't have. I'm sure that will lead to productive discussion. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] Lols@lemm.ee 2 points 2 years ago* (1 child) i doubt there was any chance of a productive discussion past ‘well thats wrong, heres whats actually happening’ with 0 evidence and maintaining that it just has to be true when challenged im doing this so folks reading this thread at least get the added context of the above being a complete unsourced guess permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] FlyingSquid@lemmy.world 0 points 2 years ago (1 child) Yep, there it is. "I have no evidence." "You idiot! You have no evidence!" "I know. I said I have no evidence." "What kind of fool says that sort of thing without evidence?" "Me, I guess." "Ha! I knew you had no evidence!" Is this going to continue ad nauseam or do you have a point besides the fact that I said something I don't have evidence for? Because I think the folks reading this thread might have glommed on to the fact that I have no evidence at this point. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] Lols@lemm.ee 0 points 2 years ago (1 child) your commitment to just saying some shit is admirable i guess permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] FlyingSquid@lemmy.world 2 points 2 years ago Okay, so do you have anything further to say or are we done here? permalink fedilink source parent
[–] FlyingSquid@lemmy.world 6 points 2 years ago (1 child) Do tell us your theory. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [+] Lols@lemm.ee -12 points 2 years ago (1 child) no thanks, but if youve got some proof id be happy to read it permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] FlyingSquid@lemmy.world 2 points 2 years ago (1 child) So you don't have any idea why so many people on the spectrum commit suicide but you don't think it's the way they're regularly mistreated? permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] Lols@lemm.ee 1 point 2 years ago* (1 child) i think that the mistreatment of folks with autism is not enough to explain to have this high of a suicide rate, and that autism does just make life harder to deal with, regardless of discrimination permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] FlyingSquid@lemmy.world 1 point 2 years ago (1 child) And yet you have no other answers. So until you have them, that seems to be a good working theory. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] Lols@lemm.ee 0 points 2 years ago (2 children) i think working off answers we do have is a better idea, actually such as suicide being one of the top three causes of death for autistic people. The other two being heart disease and epilepsy complications, and them on average dying under 50 years of age. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 4 child comments replies: [–] moitoi@feddit.de 5 points 2 years ago (1 child) I suggest to read more than one article about the double empathy problem at first. We have multiple papers stating it's the way we are mistreated the issue. Autists don't have a lack of empathy, communication, socialization, non verbal language, etc. We express them in a different way, an Autistic way! This is as valid as the neurotypical way. We need to stop internalizing ableism and self blaming us for everything and nothing. These are direct consequences of mistreatments too. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] Lols@lemm.ee 0 points 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago) (1 child) im sure that mistreatment is part of the issue im also sure that autism does, at least often, come with real internal stressors that are not the result of their treatment by others, and that make dealing with external stressors more difficult i dont take an issue with the added context of conscious or subconscious ableism (though i think its besides the point here, because cruel or not, its still something potential children will still have to deal with) i think its important to remember that even if that wasnt a factor, autism will often still impact the quality of life of potential children permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] moitoi@feddit.de 3 points 2 years ago (1 child) The issue with your explanation is that autism isn't an illness nor a disease nor a disorder. It's a neurotype, a neurological difference. It doesn't come with a difference in neurology. It's a different neurology. They're no normal neurology. All of them are egal and valid. When one of them exercises a pressure to be the one, the norm, and doesn't let the others exist, it's discrimination against a minority. This ends with a high suicide number. It has deep implications with trauma, PTSD, cptsd, depression and other mental health issues from a very young age to elderly. When you can't cope anymore, you ... And yeah, it's internalized ableism to blame ourselves. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] Lols@lemm.ee -1 points 2 years ago* whether autism is or is not an illness, disease or disorder has no bearing on what i said you seem to be misinterpreting my comment as being a judgement of value on autism or autistic folks, which it is not my point is based on the common symptoms, effects and predispositions of autism, especially ones that cannot be pinned on mistreatment completely and entirely regardless of whether it is a 'valid' or 'normal' neurology or not, and completely and entirely regardless of whether autistic folks can or cannot be blamed for any of it permalink fedilink source parent [–] FlyingSquid@lemmy.world 2 points 2 years ago (1 child) How is that an idea of what the cause of suicide is? Where is the explanation of cause there? Because I gave an explanation of the cause. So far, all you've done is play coy. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] Lols@lemm.ee 1 point 2 years ago* (1 child) you didnt give an explanation of the cause, you seemingly pulled something out your ass and didnt like when i didnt immediately accept it as fact permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] FlyingSquid@lemmy.world 3 points 2 years ago (1 child) You think the widespread mistreatment of autistic people is something I invented? Really? permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] Lols@lemm.ee 0 points 2 years ago* (1 child) im going to assume the complete misinterpretation is genuine and not just strawmanning no, i think that the high suicide rates being exclusively due to mistreatment is something you pulled out your ass, especially since the response to 'do you have proof' was not 'yes, here you go' permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] FlyingSquid@lemmy.world 3 points 2 years ago* (1 child) I never said anything about it being exclusively due to mistreatment. That is something you made up. And I admitted I didn't have evidence, so I have no idea why you're complaining about me not having evidence. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] Lols@lemm.ee 2 points 2 years ago* (1 child) Yes, but that’s not due to autism, that’s due to the way society treats autistic people must be me, but i read that as pretty explicit and unambiguously exclusive language And I admitted I didn’t have evidence, so I have no idea why you’re complaining about me not having evidence. because i think going 'well thats wrong, heres whats actually happening' with 0 evidence is actually a pretty weird thing to do, as is maintaining that it just has to be true when challenged permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] FlyingSquid@lemmy.world 1 point 2 years ago (1 child) Yes, it must be you. If I had meant it to be exclusive, I would have said "that is not solely due to autism, that is solely due to the way society treats autistic people" But please, continue to berate me for not having the evidence I admit I don't have. I'm sure that will lead to productive discussion. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] Lols@lemm.ee 2 points 2 years ago* (1 child) i doubt there was any chance of a productive discussion past ‘well thats wrong, heres whats actually happening’ with 0 evidence and maintaining that it just has to be true when challenged im doing this so folks reading this thread at least get the added context of the above being a complete unsourced guess permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] FlyingSquid@lemmy.world 0 points 2 years ago (1 child) Yep, there it is. "I have no evidence." "You idiot! You have no evidence!" "I know. I said I have no evidence." "What kind of fool says that sort of thing without evidence?" "Me, I guess." "Ha! I knew you had no evidence!" Is this going to continue ad nauseam or do you have a point besides the fact that I said something I don't have evidence for? Because I think the folks reading this thread might have glommed on to the fact that I have no evidence at this point. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] Lols@lemm.ee 0 points 2 years ago (1 child) your commitment to just saying some shit is admirable i guess permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] FlyingSquid@lemmy.world 2 points 2 years ago Okay, so do you have anything further to say or are we done here? permalink fedilink source parent
[+] Lols@lemm.ee -12 points 2 years ago (1 child) no thanks, but if youve got some proof id be happy to read it permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] FlyingSquid@lemmy.world 2 points 2 years ago (1 child) So you don't have any idea why so many people on the spectrum commit suicide but you don't think it's the way they're regularly mistreated? permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] Lols@lemm.ee 1 point 2 years ago* (1 child) i think that the mistreatment of folks with autism is not enough to explain to have this high of a suicide rate, and that autism does just make life harder to deal with, regardless of discrimination permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] FlyingSquid@lemmy.world 1 point 2 years ago (1 child) And yet you have no other answers. So until you have them, that seems to be a good working theory. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] Lols@lemm.ee 0 points 2 years ago (2 children) i think working off answers we do have is a better idea, actually such as suicide being one of the top three causes of death for autistic people. The other two being heart disease and epilepsy complications, and them on average dying under 50 years of age. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 4 child comments replies: [–] moitoi@feddit.de 5 points 2 years ago (1 child) I suggest to read more than one article about the double empathy problem at first. We have multiple papers stating it's the way we are mistreated the issue. Autists don't have a lack of empathy, communication, socialization, non verbal language, etc. We express them in a different way, an Autistic way! This is as valid as the neurotypical way. We need to stop internalizing ableism and self blaming us for everything and nothing. These are direct consequences of mistreatments too. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] Lols@lemm.ee 0 points 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago) (1 child) im sure that mistreatment is part of the issue im also sure that autism does, at least often, come with real internal stressors that are not the result of their treatment by others, and that make dealing with external stressors more difficult i dont take an issue with the added context of conscious or subconscious ableism (though i think its besides the point here, because cruel or not, its still something potential children will still have to deal with) i think its important to remember that even if that wasnt a factor, autism will often still impact the quality of life of potential children permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] moitoi@feddit.de 3 points 2 years ago (1 child) The issue with your explanation is that autism isn't an illness nor a disease nor a disorder. It's a neurotype, a neurological difference. It doesn't come with a difference in neurology. It's a different neurology. They're no normal neurology. All of them are egal and valid. When one of them exercises a pressure to be the one, the norm, and doesn't let the others exist, it's discrimination against a minority. This ends with a high suicide number. It has deep implications with trauma, PTSD, cptsd, depression and other mental health issues from a very young age to elderly. When you can't cope anymore, you ... And yeah, it's internalized ableism to blame ourselves. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] Lols@lemm.ee -1 points 2 years ago* whether autism is or is not an illness, disease or disorder has no bearing on what i said you seem to be misinterpreting my comment as being a judgement of value on autism or autistic folks, which it is not my point is based on the common symptoms, effects and predispositions of autism, especially ones that cannot be pinned on mistreatment completely and entirely regardless of whether it is a 'valid' or 'normal' neurology or not, and completely and entirely regardless of whether autistic folks can or cannot be blamed for any of it permalink fedilink source parent [–] FlyingSquid@lemmy.world 2 points 2 years ago (1 child) How is that an idea of what the cause of suicide is? Where is the explanation of cause there? Because I gave an explanation of the cause. So far, all you've done is play coy. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] Lols@lemm.ee 1 point 2 years ago* (1 child) you didnt give an explanation of the cause, you seemingly pulled something out your ass and didnt like when i didnt immediately accept it as fact permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] FlyingSquid@lemmy.world 3 points 2 years ago (1 child) You think the widespread mistreatment of autistic people is something I invented? Really? permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] Lols@lemm.ee 0 points 2 years ago* (1 child) im going to assume the complete misinterpretation is genuine and not just strawmanning no, i think that the high suicide rates being exclusively due to mistreatment is something you pulled out your ass, especially since the response to 'do you have proof' was not 'yes, here you go' permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] FlyingSquid@lemmy.world 3 points 2 years ago* (1 child) I never said anything about it being exclusively due to mistreatment. That is something you made up. And I admitted I didn't have evidence, so I have no idea why you're complaining about me not having evidence. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] Lols@lemm.ee 2 points 2 years ago* (1 child) Yes, but that’s not due to autism, that’s due to the way society treats autistic people must be me, but i read that as pretty explicit and unambiguously exclusive language And I admitted I didn’t have evidence, so I have no idea why you’re complaining about me not having evidence. because i think going 'well thats wrong, heres whats actually happening' with 0 evidence is actually a pretty weird thing to do, as is maintaining that it just has to be true when challenged permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] FlyingSquid@lemmy.world 1 point 2 years ago (1 child) Yes, it must be you. If I had meant it to be exclusive, I would have said "that is not solely due to autism, that is solely due to the way society treats autistic people" But please, continue to berate me for not having the evidence I admit I don't have. I'm sure that will lead to productive discussion. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] Lols@lemm.ee 2 points 2 years ago* (1 child) i doubt there was any chance of a productive discussion past ‘well thats wrong, heres whats actually happening’ with 0 evidence and maintaining that it just has to be true when challenged im doing this so folks reading this thread at least get the added context of the above being a complete unsourced guess permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] FlyingSquid@lemmy.world 0 points 2 years ago (1 child) Yep, there it is. "I have no evidence." "You idiot! You have no evidence!" "I know. I said I have no evidence." "What kind of fool says that sort of thing without evidence?" "Me, I guess." "Ha! I knew you had no evidence!" Is this going to continue ad nauseam or do you have a point besides the fact that I said something I don't have evidence for? Because I think the folks reading this thread might have glommed on to the fact that I have no evidence at this point. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] Lols@lemm.ee 0 points 2 years ago (1 child) your commitment to just saying some shit is admirable i guess permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] FlyingSquid@lemmy.world 2 points 2 years ago Okay, so do you have anything further to say or are we done here? permalink fedilink source parent
[–] FlyingSquid@lemmy.world 2 points 2 years ago (1 child) So you don't have any idea why so many people on the spectrum commit suicide but you don't think it's the way they're regularly mistreated? permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] Lols@lemm.ee 1 point 2 years ago* (1 child) i think that the mistreatment of folks with autism is not enough to explain to have this high of a suicide rate, and that autism does just make life harder to deal with, regardless of discrimination permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] FlyingSquid@lemmy.world 1 point 2 years ago (1 child) And yet you have no other answers. So until you have them, that seems to be a good working theory. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] Lols@lemm.ee 0 points 2 years ago (2 children) i think working off answers we do have is a better idea, actually such as suicide being one of the top three causes of death for autistic people. The other two being heart disease and epilepsy complications, and them on average dying under 50 years of age. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 4 child comments replies: [–] moitoi@feddit.de 5 points 2 years ago (1 child) I suggest to read more than one article about the double empathy problem at first. We have multiple papers stating it's the way we are mistreated the issue. Autists don't have a lack of empathy, communication, socialization, non verbal language, etc. We express them in a different way, an Autistic way! This is as valid as the neurotypical way. We need to stop internalizing ableism and self blaming us for everything and nothing. These are direct consequences of mistreatments too. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] Lols@lemm.ee 0 points 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago) (1 child) im sure that mistreatment is part of the issue im also sure that autism does, at least often, come with real internal stressors that are not the result of their treatment by others, and that make dealing with external stressors more difficult i dont take an issue with the added context of conscious or subconscious ableism (though i think its besides the point here, because cruel or not, its still something potential children will still have to deal with) i think its important to remember that even if that wasnt a factor, autism will often still impact the quality of life of potential children permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] moitoi@feddit.de 3 points 2 years ago (1 child) The issue with your explanation is that autism isn't an illness nor a disease nor a disorder. It's a neurotype, a neurological difference. It doesn't come with a difference in neurology. It's a different neurology. They're no normal neurology. All of them are egal and valid. When one of them exercises a pressure to be the one, the norm, and doesn't let the others exist, it's discrimination against a minority. This ends with a high suicide number. It has deep implications with trauma, PTSD, cptsd, depression and other mental health issues from a very young age to elderly. When you can't cope anymore, you ... And yeah, it's internalized ableism to blame ourselves. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] Lols@lemm.ee -1 points 2 years ago* whether autism is or is not an illness, disease or disorder has no bearing on what i said you seem to be misinterpreting my comment as being a judgement of value on autism or autistic folks, which it is not my point is based on the common symptoms, effects and predispositions of autism, especially ones that cannot be pinned on mistreatment completely and entirely regardless of whether it is a 'valid' or 'normal' neurology or not, and completely and entirely regardless of whether autistic folks can or cannot be blamed for any of it permalink fedilink source parent [–] FlyingSquid@lemmy.world 2 points 2 years ago (1 child) How is that an idea of what the cause of suicide is? Where is the explanation of cause there? Because I gave an explanation of the cause. So far, all you've done is play coy. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] Lols@lemm.ee 1 point 2 years ago* (1 child) you didnt give an explanation of the cause, you seemingly pulled something out your ass and didnt like when i didnt immediately accept it as fact permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] FlyingSquid@lemmy.world 3 points 2 years ago (1 child) You think the widespread mistreatment of autistic people is something I invented? Really? permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] Lols@lemm.ee 0 points 2 years ago* (1 child) im going to assume the complete misinterpretation is genuine and not just strawmanning no, i think that the high suicide rates being exclusively due to mistreatment is something you pulled out your ass, especially since the response to 'do you have proof' was not 'yes, here you go' permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] FlyingSquid@lemmy.world 3 points 2 years ago* (1 child) I never said anything about it being exclusively due to mistreatment. That is something you made up. And I admitted I didn't have evidence, so I have no idea why you're complaining about me not having evidence. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] Lols@lemm.ee 2 points 2 years ago* (1 child) Yes, but that’s not due to autism, that’s due to the way society treats autistic people must be me, but i read that as pretty explicit and unambiguously exclusive language And I admitted I didn’t have evidence, so I have no idea why you’re complaining about me not having evidence. because i think going 'well thats wrong, heres whats actually happening' with 0 evidence is actually a pretty weird thing to do, as is maintaining that it just has to be true when challenged permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] FlyingSquid@lemmy.world 1 point 2 years ago (1 child) Yes, it must be you. If I had meant it to be exclusive, I would have said "that is not solely due to autism, that is solely due to the way society treats autistic people" But please, continue to berate me for not having the evidence I admit I don't have. I'm sure that will lead to productive discussion. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] Lols@lemm.ee 2 points 2 years ago* (1 child) i doubt there was any chance of a productive discussion past ‘well thats wrong, heres whats actually happening’ with 0 evidence and maintaining that it just has to be true when challenged im doing this so folks reading this thread at least get the added context of the above being a complete unsourced guess permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] FlyingSquid@lemmy.world 0 points 2 years ago (1 child) Yep, there it is. "I have no evidence." "You idiot! You have no evidence!" "I know. I said I have no evidence." "What kind of fool says that sort of thing without evidence?" "Me, I guess." "Ha! I knew you had no evidence!" Is this going to continue ad nauseam or do you have a point besides the fact that I said something I don't have evidence for? Because I think the folks reading this thread might have glommed on to the fact that I have no evidence at this point. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] Lols@lemm.ee 0 points 2 years ago (1 child) your commitment to just saying some shit is admirable i guess permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] FlyingSquid@lemmy.world 2 points 2 years ago Okay, so do you have anything further to say or are we done here? permalink fedilink source parent
[–] Lols@lemm.ee 1 point 2 years ago* (1 child) i think that the mistreatment of folks with autism is not enough to explain to have this high of a suicide rate, and that autism does just make life harder to deal with, regardless of discrimination permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] FlyingSquid@lemmy.world 1 point 2 years ago (1 child) And yet you have no other answers. So until you have them, that seems to be a good working theory. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] Lols@lemm.ee 0 points 2 years ago (2 children) i think working off answers we do have is a better idea, actually such as suicide being one of the top three causes of death for autistic people. The other two being heart disease and epilepsy complications, and them on average dying under 50 years of age. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 4 child comments replies: [–] moitoi@feddit.de 5 points 2 years ago (1 child) I suggest to read more than one article about the double empathy problem at first. We have multiple papers stating it's the way we are mistreated the issue. Autists don't have a lack of empathy, communication, socialization, non verbal language, etc. We express them in a different way, an Autistic way! This is as valid as the neurotypical way. We need to stop internalizing ableism and self blaming us for everything and nothing. These are direct consequences of mistreatments too. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] Lols@lemm.ee 0 points 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago) (1 child) im sure that mistreatment is part of the issue im also sure that autism does, at least often, come with real internal stressors that are not the result of their treatment by others, and that make dealing with external stressors more difficult i dont take an issue with the added context of conscious or subconscious ableism (though i think its besides the point here, because cruel or not, its still something potential children will still have to deal with) i think its important to remember that even if that wasnt a factor, autism will often still impact the quality of life of potential children permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] moitoi@feddit.de 3 points 2 years ago (1 child) The issue with your explanation is that autism isn't an illness nor a disease nor a disorder. It's a neurotype, a neurological difference. It doesn't come with a difference in neurology. It's a different neurology. They're no normal neurology. All of them are egal and valid. When one of them exercises a pressure to be the one, the norm, and doesn't let the others exist, it's discrimination against a minority. This ends with a high suicide number. It has deep implications with trauma, PTSD, cptsd, depression and other mental health issues from a very young age to elderly. When you can't cope anymore, you ... And yeah, it's internalized ableism to blame ourselves. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] Lols@lemm.ee -1 points 2 years ago* whether autism is or is not an illness, disease or disorder has no bearing on what i said you seem to be misinterpreting my comment as being a judgement of value on autism or autistic folks, which it is not my point is based on the common symptoms, effects and predispositions of autism, especially ones that cannot be pinned on mistreatment completely and entirely regardless of whether it is a 'valid' or 'normal' neurology or not, and completely and entirely regardless of whether autistic folks can or cannot be blamed for any of it permalink fedilink source parent [–] FlyingSquid@lemmy.world 2 points 2 years ago (1 child) How is that an idea of what the cause of suicide is? Where is the explanation of cause there? Because I gave an explanation of the cause. So far, all you've done is play coy. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] Lols@lemm.ee 1 point 2 years ago* (1 child) you didnt give an explanation of the cause, you seemingly pulled something out your ass and didnt like when i didnt immediately accept it as fact permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] FlyingSquid@lemmy.world 3 points 2 years ago (1 child) You think the widespread mistreatment of autistic people is something I invented? Really? permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] Lols@lemm.ee 0 points 2 years ago* (1 child) im going to assume the complete misinterpretation is genuine and not just strawmanning no, i think that the high suicide rates being exclusively due to mistreatment is something you pulled out your ass, especially since the response to 'do you have proof' was not 'yes, here you go' permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] FlyingSquid@lemmy.world 3 points 2 years ago* (1 child) I never said anything about it being exclusively due to mistreatment. That is something you made up. And I admitted I didn't have evidence, so I have no idea why you're complaining about me not having evidence. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] Lols@lemm.ee 2 points 2 years ago* (1 child) Yes, but that’s not due to autism, that’s due to the way society treats autistic people must be me, but i read that as pretty explicit and unambiguously exclusive language And I admitted I didn’t have evidence, so I have no idea why you’re complaining about me not having evidence. because i think going 'well thats wrong, heres whats actually happening' with 0 evidence is actually a pretty weird thing to do, as is maintaining that it just has to be true when challenged permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] FlyingSquid@lemmy.world 1 point 2 years ago (1 child) Yes, it must be you. If I had meant it to be exclusive, I would have said "that is not solely due to autism, that is solely due to the way society treats autistic people" But please, continue to berate me for not having the evidence I admit I don't have. I'm sure that will lead to productive discussion. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] Lols@lemm.ee 2 points 2 years ago* (1 child) i doubt there was any chance of a productive discussion past ‘well thats wrong, heres whats actually happening’ with 0 evidence and maintaining that it just has to be true when challenged im doing this so folks reading this thread at least get the added context of the above being a complete unsourced guess permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] FlyingSquid@lemmy.world 0 points 2 years ago (1 child) Yep, there it is. "I have no evidence." "You idiot! You have no evidence!" "I know. I said I have no evidence." "What kind of fool says that sort of thing without evidence?" "Me, I guess." "Ha! I knew you had no evidence!" Is this going to continue ad nauseam or do you have a point besides the fact that I said something I don't have evidence for? Because I think the folks reading this thread might have glommed on to the fact that I have no evidence at this point. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] Lols@lemm.ee 0 points 2 years ago (1 child) your commitment to just saying some shit is admirable i guess permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] FlyingSquid@lemmy.world 2 points 2 years ago Okay, so do you have anything further to say or are we done here? permalink fedilink source parent
[–] FlyingSquid@lemmy.world 1 point 2 years ago (1 child) And yet you have no other answers. So until you have them, that seems to be a good working theory. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] Lols@lemm.ee 0 points 2 years ago (2 children) i think working off answers we do have is a better idea, actually such as suicide being one of the top three causes of death for autistic people. The other two being heart disease and epilepsy complications, and them on average dying under 50 years of age. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 4 child comments replies: [–] moitoi@feddit.de 5 points 2 years ago (1 child) I suggest to read more than one article about the double empathy problem at first. We have multiple papers stating it's the way we are mistreated the issue. Autists don't have a lack of empathy, communication, socialization, non verbal language, etc. We express them in a different way, an Autistic way! This is as valid as the neurotypical way. We need to stop internalizing ableism and self blaming us for everything and nothing. These are direct consequences of mistreatments too. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] Lols@lemm.ee 0 points 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago) (1 child) im sure that mistreatment is part of the issue im also sure that autism does, at least often, come with real internal stressors that are not the result of their treatment by others, and that make dealing with external stressors more difficult i dont take an issue with the added context of conscious or subconscious ableism (though i think its besides the point here, because cruel or not, its still something potential children will still have to deal with) i think its important to remember that even if that wasnt a factor, autism will often still impact the quality of life of potential children permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] moitoi@feddit.de 3 points 2 years ago (1 child) The issue with your explanation is that autism isn't an illness nor a disease nor a disorder. It's a neurotype, a neurological difference. It doesn't come with a difference in neurology. It's a different neurology. They're no normal neurology. All of them are egal and valid. When one of them exercises a pressure to be the one, the norm, and doesn't let the others exist, it's discrimination against a minority. This ends with a high suicide number. It has deep implications with trauma, PTSD, cptsd, depression and other mental health issues from a very young age to elderly. When you can't cope anymore, you ... And yeah, it's internalized ableism to blame ourselves. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] Lols@lemm.ee -1 points 2 years ago* whether autism is or is not an illness, disease or disorder has no bearing on what i said you seem to be misinterpreting my comment as being a judgement of value on autism or autistic folks, which it is not my point is based on the common symptoms, effects and predispositions of autism, especially ones that cannot be pinned on mistreatment completely and entirely regardless of whether it is a 'valid' or 'normal' neurology or not, and completely and entirely regardless of whether autistic folks can or cannot be blamed for any of it permalink fedilink source parent [–] FlyingSquid@lemmy.world 2 points 2 years ago (1 child) How is that an idea of what the cause of suicide is? Where is the explanation of cause there? Because I gave an explanation of the cause. So far, all you've done is play coy. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] Lols@lemm.ee 1 point 2 years ago* (1 child) you didnt give an explanation of the cause, you seemingly pulled something out your ass and didnt like when i didnt immediately accept it as fact permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] FlyingSquid@lemmy.world 3 points 2 years ago (1 child) You think the widespread mistreatment of autistic people is something I invented? Really? permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] Lols@lemm.ee 0 points 2 years ago* (1 child) im going to assume the complete misinterpretation is genuine and not just strawmanning no, i think that the high suicide rates being exclusively due to mistreatment is something you pulled out your ass, especially since the response to 'do you have proof' was not 'yes, here you go' permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] FlyingSquid@lemmy.world 3 points 2 years ago* (1 child) I never said anything about it being exclusively due to mistreatment. That is something you made up. And I admitted I didn't have evidence, so I have no idea why you're complaining about me not having evidence. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] Lols@lemm.ee 2 points 2 years ago* (1 child) Yes, but that’s not due to autism, that’s due to the way society treats autistic people must be me, but i read that as pretty explicit and unambiguously exclusive language And I admitted I didn’t have evidence, so I have no idea why you’re complaining about me not having evidence. because i think going 'well thats wrong, heres whats actually happening' with 0 evidence is actually a pretty weird thing to do, as is maintaining that it just has to be true when challenged permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] FlyingSquid@lemmy.world 1 point 2 years ago (1 child) Yes, it must be you. If I had meant it to be exclusive, I would have said "that is not solely due to autism, that is solely due to the way society treats autistic people" But please, continue to berate me for not having the evidence I admit I don't have. I'm sure that will lead to productive discussion. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] Lols@lemm.ee 2 points 2 years ago* (1 child) i doubt there was any chance of a productive discussion past ‘well thats wrong, heres whats actually happening’ with 0 evidence and maintaining that it just has to be true when challenged im doing this so folks reading this thread at least get the added context of the above being a complete unsourced guess permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] FlyingSquid@lemmy.world 0 points 2 years ago (1 child) Yep, there it is. "I have no evidence." "You idiot! You have no evidence!" "I know. I said I have no evidence." "What kind of fool says that sort of thing without evidence?" "Me, I guess." "Ha! I knew you had no evidence!" Is this going to continue ad nauseam or do you have a point besides the fact that I said something I don't have evidence for? Because I think the folks reading this thread might have glommed on to the fact that I have no evidence at this point. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] Lols@lemm.ee 0 points 2 years ago (1 child) your commitment to just saying some shit is admirable i guess permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] FlyingSquid@lemmy.world 2 points 2 years ago Okay, so do you have anything further to say or are we done here? permalink fedilink source parent
[–] Lols@lemm.ee 0 points 2 years ago (2 children) i think working off answers we do have is a better idea, actually such as suicide being one of the top three causes of death for autistic people. The other two being heart disease and epilepsy complications, and them on average dying under 50 years of age. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 4 child comments replies: [–] moitoi@feddit.de 5 points 2 years ago (1 child) I suggest to read more than one article about the double empathy problem at first. We have multiple papers stating it's the way we are mistreated the issue. Autists don't have a lack of empathy, communication, socialization, non verbal language, etc. We express them in a different way, an Autistic way! This is as valid as the neurotypical way. We need to stop internalizing ableism and self blaming us for everything and nothing. These are direct consequences of mistreatments too. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] Lols@lemm.ee 0 points 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago) (1 child) im sure that mistreatment is part of the issue im also sure that autism does, at least often, come with real internal stressors that are not the result of their treatment by others, and that make dealing with external stressors more difficult i dont take an issue with the added context of conscious or subconscious ableism (though i think its besides the point here, because cruel or not, its still something potential children will still have to deal with) i think its important to remember that even if that wasnt a factor, autism will often still impact the quality of life of potential children permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] moitoi@feddit.de 3 points 2 years ago (1 child) The issue with your explanation is that autism isn't an illness nor a disease nor a disorder. It's a neurotype, a neurological difference. It doesn't come with a difference in neurology. It's a different neurology. They're no normal neurology. All of them are egal and valid. When one of them exercises a pressure to be the one, the norm, and doesn't let the others exist, it's discrimination against a minority. This ends with a high suicide number. It has deep implications with trauma, PTSD, cptsd, depression and other mental health issues from a very young age to elderly. When you can't cope anymore, you ... And yeah, it's internalized ableism to blame ourselves. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] Lols@lemm.ee -1 points 2 years ago* whether autism is or is not an illness, disease or disorder has no bearing on what i said you seem to be misinterpreting my comment as being a judgement of value on autism or autistic folks, which it is not my point is based on the common symptoms, effects and predispositions of autism, especially ones that cannot be pinned on mistreatment completely and entirely regardless of whether it is a 'valid' or 'normal' neurology or not, and completely and entirely regardless of whether autistic folks can or cannot be blamed for any of it permalink fedilink source parent [–] FlyingSquid@lemmy.world 2 points 2 years ago (1 child) How is that an idea of what the cause of suicide is? Where is the explanation of cause there? Because I gave an explanation of the cause. So far, all you've done is play coy. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] Lols@lemm.ee 1 point 2 years ago* (1 child) you didnt give an explanation of the cause, you seemingly pulled something out your ass and didnt like when i didnt immediately accept it as fact permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] FlyingSquid@lemmy.world 3 points 2 years ago (1 child) You think the widespread mistreatment of autistic people is something I invented? Really? permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] Lols@lemm.ee 0 points 2 years ago* (1 child) im going to assume the complete misinterpretation is genuine and not just strawmanning no, i think that the high suicide rates being exclusively due to mistreatment is something you pulled out your ass, especially since the response to 'do you have proof' was not 'yes, here you go' permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] FlyingSquid@lemmy.world 3 points 2 years ago* (1 child) I never said anything about it being exclusively due to mistreatment. That is something you made up. And I admitted I didn't have evidence, so I have no idea why you're complaining about me not having evidence. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] Lols@lemm.ee 2 points 2 years ago* (1 child) Yes, but that’s not due to autism, that’s due to the way society treats autistic people must be me, but i read that as pretty explicit and unambiguously exclusive language And I admitted I didn’t have evidence, so I have no idea why you’re complaining about me not having evidence. because i think going 'well thats wrong, heres whats actually happening' with 0 evidence is actually a pretty weird thing to do, as is maintaining that it just has to be true when challenged permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] FlyingSquid@lemmy.world 1 point 2 years ago (1 child) Yes, it must be you. If I had meant it to be exclusive, I would have said "that is not solely due to autism, that is solely due to the way society treats autistic people" But please, continue to berate me for not having the evidence I admit I don't have. I'm sure that will lead to productive discussion. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] Lols@lemm.ee 2 points 2 years ago* (1 child) i doubt there was any chance of a productive discussion past ‘well thats wrong, heres whats actually happening’ with 0 evidence and maintaining that it just has to be true when challenged im doing this so folks reading this thread at least get the added context of the above being a complete unsourced guess permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] FlyingSquid@lemmy.world 0 points 2 years ago (1 child) Yep, there it is. "I have no evidence." "You idiot! You have no evidence!" "I know. I said I have no evidence." "What kind of fool says that sort of thing without evidence?" "Me, I guess." "Ha! I knew you had no evidence!" Is this going to continue ad nauseam or do you have a point besides the fact that I said something I don't have evidence for? Because I think the folks reading this thread might have glommed on to the fact that I have no evidence at this point. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] Lols@lemm.ee 0 points 2 years ago (1 child) your commitment to just saying some shit is admirable i guess permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] FlyingSquid@lemmy.world 2 points 2 years ago Okay, so do you have anything further to say or are we done here? permalink fedilink source parent
[–] moitoi@feddit.de 5 points 2 years ago (1 child) I suggest to read more than one article about the double empathy problem at first. We have multiple papers stating it's the way we are mistreated the issue. Autists don't have a lack of empathy, communication, socialization, non verbal language, etc. We express them in a different way, an Autistic way! This is as valid as the neurotypical way. We need to stop internalizing ableism and self blaming us for everything and nothing. These are direct consequences of mistreatments too. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] Lols@lemm.ee 0 points 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago) (1 child) im sure that mistreatment is part of the issue im also sure that autism does, at least often, come with real internal stressors that are not the result of their treatment by others, and that make dealing with external stressors more difficult i dont take an issue with the added context of conscious or subconscious ableism (though i think its besides the point here, because cruel or not, its still something potential children will still have to deal with) i think its important to remember that even if that wasnt a factor, autism will often still impact the quality of life of potential children permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] moitoi@feddit.de 3 points 2 years ago (1 child) The issue with your explanation is that autism isn't an illness nor a disease nor a disorder. It's a neurotype, a neurological difference. It doesn't come with a difference in neurology. It's a different neurology. They're no normal neurology. All of them are egal and valid. When one of them exercises a pressure to be the one, the norm, and doesn't let the others exist, it's discrimination against a minority. This ends with a high suicide number. It has deep implications with trauma, PTSD, cptsd, depression and other mental health issues from a very young age to elderly. When you can't cope anymore, you ... And yeah, it's internalized ableism to blame ourselves. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] Lols@lemm.ee -1 points 2 years ago* whether autism is or is not an illness, disease or disorder has no bearing on what i said you seem to be misinterpreting my comment as being a judgement of value on autism or autistic folks, which it is not my point is based on the common symptoms, effects and predispositions of autism, especially ones that cannot be pinned on mistreatment completely and entirely regardless of whether it is a 'valid' or 'normal' neurology or not, and completely and entirely regardless of whether autistic folks can or cannot be blamed for any of it permalink fedilink source parent
[–] Lols@lemm.ee 0 points 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago) (1 child) im sure that mistreatment is part of the issue im also sure that autism does, at least often, come with real internal stressors that are not the result of their treatment by others, and that make dealing with external stressors more difficult i dont take an issue with the added context of conscious or subconscious ableism (though i think its besides the point here, because cruel or not, its still something potential children will still have to deal with) i think its important to remember that even if that wasnt a factor, autism will often still impact the quality of life of potential children permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] moitoi@feddit.de 3 points 2 years ago (1 child) The issue with your explanation is that autism isn't an illness nor a disease nor a disorder. It's a neurotype, a neurological difference. It doesn't come with a difference in neurology. It's a different neurology. They're no normal neurology. All of them are egal and valid. When one of them exercises a pressure to be the one, the norm, and doesn't let the others exist, it's discrimination against a minority. This ends with a high suicide number. It has deep implications with trauma, PTSD, cptsd, depression and other mental health issues from a very young age to elderly. When you can't cope anymore, you ... And yeah, it's internalized ableism to blame ourselves. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] Lols@lemm.ee -1 points 2 years ago* whether autism is or is not an illness, disease or disorder has no bearing on what i said you seem to be misinterpreting my comment as being a judgement of value on autism or autistic folks, which it is not my point is based on the common symptoms, effects and predispositions of autism, especially ones that cannot be pinned on mistreatment completely and entirely regardless of whether it is a 'valid' or 'normal' neurology or not, and completely and entirely regardless of whether autistic folks can or cannot be blamed for any of it permalink fedilink source parent
[–] moitoi@feddit.de 3 points 2 years ago (1 child) The issue with your explanation is that autism isn't an illness nor a disease nor a disorder. It's a neurotype, a neurological difference. It doesn't come with a difference in neurology. It's a different neurology. They're no normal neurology. All of them are egal and valid. When one of them exercises a pressure to be the one, the norm, and doesn't let the others exist, it's discrimination against a minority. This ends with a high suicide number. It has deep implications with trauma, PTSD, cptsd, depression and other mental health issues from a very young age to elderly. When you can't cope anymore, you ... And yeah, it's internalized ableism to blame ourselves. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] Lols@lemm.ee -1 points 2 years ago* whether autism is or is not an illness, disease or disorder has no bearing on what i said you seem to be misinterpreting my comment as being a judgement of value on autism or autistic folks, which it is not my point is based on the common symptoms, effects and predispositions of autism, especially ones that cannot be pinned on mistreatment completely and entirely regardless of whether it is a 'valid' or 'normal' neurology or not, and completely and entirely regardless of whether autistic folks can or cannot be blamed for any of it permalink fedilink source parent
[–] Lols@lemm.ee -1 points 2 years ago* whether autism is or is not an illness, disease or disorder has no bearing on what i said you seem to be misinterpreting my comment as being a judgement of value on autism or autistic folks, which it is not my point is based on the common symptoms, effects and predispositions of autism, especially ones that cannot be pinned on mistreatment completely and entirely regardless of whether it is a 'valid' or 'normal' neurology or not, and completely and entirely regardless of whether autistic folks can or cannot be blamed for any of it permalink fedilink source parent
[–] FlyingSquid@lemmy.world 2 points 2 years ago (1 child) How is that an idea of what the cause of suicide is? Where is the explanation of cause there? Because I gave an explanation of the cause. So far, all you've done is play coy. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] Lols@lemm.ee 1 point 2 years ago* (1 child) you didnt give an explanation of the cause, you seemingly pulled something out your ass and didnt like when i didnt immediately accept it as fact permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] FlyingSquid@lemmy.world 3 points 2 years ago (1 child) You think the widespread mistreatment of autistic people is something I invented? Really? permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] Lols@lemm.ee 0 points 2 years ago* (1 child) im going to assume the complete misinterpretation is genuine and not just strawmanning no, i think that the high suicide rates being exclusively due to mistreatment is something you pulled out your ass, especially since the response to 'do you have proof' was not 'yes, here you go' permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] FlyingSquid@lemmy.world 3 points 2 years ago* (1 child) I never said anything about it being exclusively due to mistreatment. That is something you made up. And I admitted I didn't have evidence, so I have no idea why you're complaining about me not having evidence. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] Lols@lemm.ee 2 points 2 years ago* (1 child) Yes, but that’s not due to autism, that’s due to the way society treats autistic people must be me, but i read that as pretty explicit and unambiguously exclusive language And I admitted I didn’t have evidence, so I have no idea why you’re complaining about me not having evidence. because i think going 'well thats wrong, heres whats actually happening' with 0 evidence is actually a pretty weird thing to do, as is maintaining that it just has to be true when challenged permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] FlyingSquid@lemmy.world 1 point 2 years ago (1 child) Yes, it must be you. If I had meant it to be exclusive, I would have said "that is not solely due to autism, that is solely due to the way society treats autistic people" But please, continue to berate me for not having the evidence I admit I don't have. I'm sure that will lead to productive discussion. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] Lols@lemm.ee 2 points 2 years ago* (1 child) i doubt there was any chance of a productive discussion past ‘well thats wrong, heres whats actually happening’ with 0 evidence and maintaining that it just has to be true when challenged im doing this so folks reading this thread at least get the added context of the above being a complete unsourced guess permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] FlyingSquid@lemmy.world 0 points 2 years ago (1 child) Yep, there it is. "I have no evidence." "You idiot! You have no evidence!" "I know. I said I have no evidence." "What kind of fool says that sort of thing without evidence?" "Me, I guess." "Ha! I knew you had no evidence!" Is this going to continue ad nauseam or do you have a point besides the fact that I said something I don't have evidence for? Because I think the folks reading this thread might have glommed on to the fact that I have no evidence at this point. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] Lols@lemm.ee 0 points 2 years ago (1 child) your commitment to just saying some shit is admirable i guess permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] FlyingSquid@lemmy.world 2 points 2 years ago Okay, so do you have anything further to say or are we done here? permalink fedilink source parent
[–] Lols@lemm.ee 1 point 2 years ago* (1 child) you didnt give an explanation of the cause, you seemingly pulled something out your ass and didnt like when i didnt immediately accept it as fact permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] FlyingSquid@lemmy.world 3 points 2 years ago (1 child) You think the widespread mistreatment of autistic people is something I invented? Really? permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] Lols@lemm.ee 0 points 2 years ago* (1 child) im going to assume the complete misinterpretation is genuine and not just strawmanning no, i think that the high suicide rates being exclusively due to mistreatment is something you pulled out your ass, especially since the response to 'do you have proof' was not 'yes, here you go' permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] FlyingSquid@lemmy.world 3 points 2 years ago* (1 child) I never said anything about it being exclusively due to mistreatment. That is something you made up. And I admitted I didn't have evidence, so I have no idea why you're complaining about me not having evidence. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] Lols@lemm.ee 2 points 2 years ago* (1 child) Yes, but that’s not due to autism, that’s due to the way society treats autistic people must be me, but i read that as pretty explicit and unambiguously exclusive language And I admitted I didn’t have evidence, so I have no idea why you’re complaining about me not having evidence. because i think going 'well thats wrong, heres whats actually happening' with 0 evidence is actually a pretty weird thing to do, as is maintaining that it just has to be true when challenged permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] FlyingSquid@lemmy.world 1 point 2 years ago (1 child) Yes, it must be you. If I had meant it to be exclusive, I would have said "that is not solely due to autism, that is solely due to the way society treats autistic people" But please, continue to berate me for not having the evidence I admit I don't have. I'm sure that will lead to productive discussion. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] Lols@lemm.ee 2 points 2 years ago* (1 child) i doubt there was any chance of a productive discussion past ‘well thats wrong, heres whats actually happening’ with 0 evidence and maintaining that it just has to be true when challenged im doing this so folks reading this thread at least get the added context of the above being a complete unsourced guess permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] FlyingSquid@lemmy.world 0 points 2 years ago (1 child) Yep, there it is. "I have no evidence." "You idiot! You have no evidence!" "I know. I said I have no evidence." "What kind of fool says that sort of thing without evidence?" "Me, I guess." "Ha! I knew you had no evidence!" Is this going to continue ad nauseam or do you have a point besides the fact that I said something I don't have evidence for? Because I think the folks reading this thread might have glommed on to the fact that I have no evidence at this point. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] Lols@lemm.ee 0 points 2 years ago (1 child) your commitment to just saying some shit is admirable i guess permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] FlyingSquid@lemmy.world 2 points 2 years ago Okay, so do you have anything further to say or are we done here? permalink fedilink source parent
[–] FlyingSquid@lemmy.world 3 points 2 years ago (1 child) You think the widespread mistreatment of autistic people is something I invented? Really? permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] Lols@lemm.ee 0 points 2 years ago* (1 child) im going to assume the complete misinterpretation is genuine and not just strawmanning no, i think that the high suicide rates being exclusively due to mistreatment is something you pulled out your ass, especially since the response to 'do you have proof' was not 'yes, here you go' permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] FlyingSquid@lemmy.world 3 points 2 years ago* (1 child) I never said anything about it being exclusively due to mistreatment. That is something you made up. And I admitted I didn't have evidence, so I have no idea why you're complaining about me not having evidence. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] Lols@lemm.ee 2 points 2 years ago* (1 child) Yes, but that’s not due to autism, that’s due to the way society treats autistic people must be me, but i read that as pretty explicit and unambiguously exclusive language And I admitted I didn’t have evidence, so I have no idea why you’re complaining about me not having evidence. because i think going 'well thats wrong, heres whats actually happening' with 0 evidence is actually a pretty weird thing to do, as is maintaining that it just has to be true when challenged permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] FlyingSquid@lemmy.world 1 point 2 years ago (1 child) Yes, it must be you. If I had meant it to be exclusive, I would have said "that is not solely due to autism, that is solely due to the way society treats autistic people" But please, continue to berate me for not having the evidence I admit I don't have. I'm sure that will lead to productive discussion. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] Lols@lemm.ee 2 points 2 years ago* (1 child) i doubt there was any chance of a productive discussion past ‘well thats wrong, heres whats actually happening’ with 0 evidence and maintaining that it just has to be true when challenged im doing this so folks reading this thread at least get the added context of the above being a complete unsourced guess permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] FlyingSquid@lemmy.world 0 points 2 years ago (1 child) Yep, there it is. "I have no evidence." "You idiot! You have no evidence!" "I know. I said I have no evidence." "What kind of fool says that sort of thing without evidence?" "Me, I guess." "Ha! I knew you had no evidence!" Is this going to continue ad nauseam or do you have a point besides the fact that I said something I don't have evidence for? Because I think the folks reading this thread might have glommed on to the fact that I have no evidence at this point. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] Lols@lemm.ee 0 points 2 years ago (1 child) your commitment to just saying some shit is admirable i guess permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] FlyingSquid@lemmy.world 2 points 2 years ago Okay, so do you have anything further to say or are we done here? permalink fedilink source parent
[–] Lols@lemm.ee 0 points 2 years ago* (1 child) im going to assume the complete misinterpretation is genuine and not just strawmanning no, i think that the high suicide rates being exclusively due to mistreatment is something you pulled out your ass, especially since the response to 'do you have proof' was not 'yes, here you go' permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] FlyingSquid@lemmy.world 3 points 2 years ago* (1 child) I never said anything about it being exclusively due to mistreatment. That is something you made up. And I admitted I didn't have evidence, so I have no idea why you're complaining about me not having evidence. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] Lols@lemm.ee 2 points 2 years ago* (1 child) Yes, but that’s not due to autism, that’s due to the way society treats autistic people must be me, but i read that as pretty explicit and unambiguously exclusive language And I admitted I didn’t have evidence, so I have no idea why you’re complaining about me not having evidence. because i think going 'well thats wrong, heres whats actually happening' with 0 evidence is actually a pretty weird thing to do, as is maintaining that it just has to be true when challenged permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] FlyingSquid@lemmy.world 1 point 2 years ago (1 child) Yes, it must be you. If I had meant it to be exclusive, I would have said "that is not solely due to autism, that is solely due to the way society treats autistic people" But please, continue to berate me for not having the evidence I admit I don't have. I'm sure that will lead to productive discussion. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] Lols@lemm.ee 2 points 2 years ago* (1 child) i doubt there was any chance of a productive discussion past ‘well thats wrong, heres whats actually happening’ with 0 evidence and maintaining that it just has to be true when challenged im doing this so folks reading this thread at least get the added context of the above being a complete unsourced guess permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] FlyingSquid@lemmy.world 0 points 2 years ago (1 child) Yep, there it is. "I have no evidence." "You idiot! You have no evidence!" "I know. I said I have no evidence." "What kind of fool says that sort of thing without evidence?" "Me, I guess." "Ha! I knew you had no evidence!" Is this going to continue ad nauseam or do you have a point besides the fact that I said something I don't have evidence for? Because I think the folks reading this thread might have glommed on to the fact that I have no evidence at this point. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] Lols@lemm.ee 0 points 2 years ago (1 child) your commitment to just saying some shit is admirable i guess permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] FlyingSquid@lemmy.world 2 points 2 years ago Okay, so do you have anything further to say or are we done here? permalink fedilink source parent
[–] FlyingSquid@lemmy.world 3 points 2 years ago* (1 child) I never said anything about it being exclusively due to mistreatment. That is something you made up. And I admitted I didn't have evidence, so I have no idea why you're complaining about me not having evidence. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] Lols@lemm.ee 2 points 2 years ago* (1 child) Yes, but that’s not due to autism, that’s due to the way society treats autistic people must be me, but i read that as pretty explicit and unambiguously exclusive language And I admitted I didn’t have evidence, so I have no idea why you’re complaining about me not having evidence. because i think going 'well thats wrong, heres whats actually happening' with 0 evidence is actually a pretty weird thing to do, as is maintaining that it just has to be true when challenged permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] FlyingSquid@lemmy.world 1 point 2 years ago (1 child) Yes, it must be you. If I had meant it to be exclusive, I would have said "that is not solely due to autism, that is solely due to the way society treats autistic people" But please, continue to berate me for not having the evidence I admit I don't have. I'm sure that will lead to productive discussion. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] Lols@lemm.ee 2 points 2 years ago* (1 child) i doubt there was any chance of a productive discussion past ‘well thats wrong, heres whats actually happening’ with 0 evidence and maintaining that it just has to be true when challenged im doing this so folks reading this thread at least get the added context of the above being a complete unsourced guess permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] FlyingSquid@lemmy.world 0 points 2 years ago (1 child) Yep, there it is. "I have no evidence." "You idiot! You have no evidence!" "I know. I said I have no evidence." "What kind of fool says that sort of thing without evidence?" "Me, I guess." "Ha! I knew you had no evidence!" Is this going to continue ad nauseam or do you have a point besides the fact that I said something I don't have evidence for? Because I think the folks reading this thread might have glommed on to the fact that I have no evidence at this point. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] Lols@lemm.ee 0 points 2 years ago (1 child) your commitment to just saying some shit is admirable i guess permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] FlyingSquid@lemmy.world 2 points 2 years ago Okay, so do you have anything further to say or are we done here? permalink fedilink source parent
[–] Lols@lemm.ee 2 points 2 years ago* (1 child) Yes, but that’s not due to autism, that’s due to the way society treats autistic people must be me, but i read that as pretty explicit and unambiguously exclusive language And I admitted I didn’t have evidence, so I have no idea why you’re complaining about me not having evidence. because i think going 'well thats wrong, heres whats actually happening' with 0 evidence is actually a pretty weird thing to do, as is maintaining that it just has to be true when challenged permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] FlyingSquid@lemmy.world 1 point 2 years ago (1 child) Yes, it must be you. If I had meant it to be exclusive, I would have said "that is not solely due to autism, that is solely due to the way society treats autistic people" But please, continue to berate me for not having the evidence I admit I don't have. I'm sure that will lead to productive discussion. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] Lols@lemm.ee 2 points 2 years ago* (1 child) i doubt there was any chance of a productive discussion past ‘well thats wrong, heres whats actually happening’ with 0 evidence and maintaining that it just has to be true when challenged im doing this so folks reading this thread at least get the added context of the above being a complete unsourced guess permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] FlyingSquid@lemmy.world 0 points 2 years ago (1 child) Yep, there it is. "I have no evidence." "You idiot! You have no evidence!" "I know. I said I have no evidence." "What kind of fool says that sort of thing without evidence?" "Me, I guess." "Ha! I knew you had no evidence!" Is this going to continue ad nauseam or do you have a point besides the fact that I said something I don't have evidence for? Because I think the folks reading this thread might have glommed on to the fact that I have no evidence at this point. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] Lols@lemm.ee 0 points 2 years ago (1 child) your commitment to just saying some shit is admirable i guess permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] FlyingSquid@lemmy.world 2 points 2 years ago Okay, so do you have anything further to say or are we done here? permalink fedilink source parent
[–] FlyingSquid@lemmy.world 1 point 2 years ago (1 child) Yes, it must be you. If I had meant it to be exclusive, I would have said "that is not solely due to autism, that is solely due to the way society treats autistic people" But please, continue to berate me for not having the evidence I admit I don't have. I'm sure that will lead to productive discussion. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] Lols@lemm.ee 2 points 2 years ago* (1 child) i doubt there was any chance of a productive discussion past ‘well thats wrong, heres whats actually happening’ with 0 evidence and maintaining that it just has to be true when challenged im doing this so folks reading this thread at least get the added context of the above being a complete unsourced guess permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] FlyingSquid@lemmy.world 0 points 2 years ago (1 child) Yep, there it is. "I have no evidence." "You idiot! You have no evidence!" "I know. I said I have no evidence." "What kind of fool says that sort of thing without evidence?" "Me, I guess." "Ha! I knew you had no evidence!" Is this going to continue ad nauseam or do you have a point besides the fact that I said something I don't have evidence for? Because I think the folks reading this thread might have glommed on to the fact that I have no evidence at this point. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] Lols@lemm.ee 0 points 2 years ago (1 child) your commitment to just saying some shit is admirable i guess permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] FlyingSquid@lemmy.world 2 points 2 years ago Okay, so do you have anything further to say or are we done here? permalink fedilink source parent
[–] Lols@lemm.ee 2 points 2 years ago* (1 child) i doubt there was any chance of a productive discussion past ‘well thats wrong, heres whats actually happening’ with 0 evidence and maintaining that it just has to be true when challenged im doing this so folks reading this thread at least get the added context of the above being a complete unsourced guess permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] FlyingSquid@lemmy.world 0 points 2 years ago (1 child) Yep, there it is. "I have no evidence." "You idiot! You have no evidence!" "I know. I said I have no evidence." "What kind of fool says that sort of thing without evidence?" "Me, I guess." "Ha! I knew you had no evidence!" Is this going to continue ad nauseam or do you have a point besides the fact that I said something I don't have evidence for? Because I think the folks reading this thread might have glommed on to the fact that I have no evidence at this point. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] Lols@lemm.ee 0 points 2 years ago (1 child) your commitment to just saying some shit is admirable i guess permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] FlyingSquid@lemmy.world 2 points 2 years ago Okay, so do you have anything further to say or are we done here? permalink fedilink source parent
[–] FlyingSquid@lemmy.world 0 points 2 years ago (1 child) Yep, there it is. "I have no evidence." "You idiot! You have no evidence!" "I know. I said I have no evidence." "What kind of fool says that sort of thing without evidence?" "Me, I guess." "Ha! I knew you had no evidence!" Is this going to continue ad nauseam or do you have a point besides the fact that I said something I don't have evidence for? Because I think the folks reading this thread might have glommed on to the fact that I have no evidence at this point. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] Lols@lemm.ee 0 points 2 years ago (1 child) your commitment to just saying some shit is admirable i guess permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] FlyingSquid@lemmy.world 2 points 2 years ago Okay, so do you have anything further to say or are we done here? permalink fedilink source parent
[–] Lols@lemm.ee 0 points 2 years ago (1 child) your commitment to just saying some shit is admirable i guess permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] FlyingSquid@lemmy.world 2 points 2 years ago Okay, so do you have anything further to say or are we done here? permalink fedilink source parent
[–] FlyingSquid@lemmy.world 2 points 2 years ago Okay, so do you have anything further to say or are we done here? permalink fedilink source parent
