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[–] 151 points 2 years ago (2 children)

No.

As a kind of a weird bonus, activating end-to-end encryption in Telegram is oddly difficult for non-expert users to actually do.

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  • [–] 48 points 2 years ago (6 children)

    As a kind of a weird bonus, activating end-to-end encryption in Telegram is oddly difficult for non-expert users to actually do.

    No, it's not. It's very easy. In the bottom right corner there is a pencil button to compose a new message and right there it asks which tpye of chat to start. Secret chat is the second topmost option after group chat. Really not hidden or complicated at all.

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  • [–] 64 points 2 years ago (7 children)

    It should be a setting to always use encrypted chat, and it should probably prompt you when you first login.

    Better yet, don't have an option to not have encrypted chats. I don't see a reason to not have everything E2EE all the time.

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  • [–] 23 points 2 years ago* (2 children)

    It should be a setting to always use encrypted chat, and it should probably prompt you when you first login.

    I don't disagree but the claim that you quoted was that it's complicated to initiate and as I explained it's not. Also secret chats stay in the messages list, so you can go back to an initiated secret chat and pick up there without any additional fiddling.

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  • [–] 12 points 2 years ago (2 children)

    If you have to enable it every time, it's complicated enough that most people won't bother. Maybe they'll do it once or twice out of novelty, but it's not going to become a habit.

    I only consider something "encrypted" if it's actually encrypted by default, or at least prompts to enable it permanently on first launch. Otherwise, it's not an "encrypted" chat, it just has the option to have some chats encrypted.

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  • [–] 9 points 2 years ago (1 child)

    If you have to enable it every time, it’s complicated

    But you don't. As I already explained: secret chats stay in the messages list, so you can go back to an initiated secret chat and pick up there without any additional fiddling.

    I have plenty of encrypted chats that I don't have to enable every time I want to send one. I don't understand where this misconception comes from.

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  • [–] 13 points 2 years ago (10 children)

    Surely you talk to more than one or two people, no? If you have to manually check a box or something every time you start a new message with someone, people are going to stop doing it.

    It's not an encrypted chat app. It's an unencrypted chat app that has an option for encrypted chats. Whether something is encrypted or not depends on how most people use it and what the defaults are.

    Signal is an encrypted chat app. E2EE is the default and AFAIK only behavior. Telegram can be encrypted, but it's not by default, and defaults matter.

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  • [–] 30 points 2 years ago (1 child)

    My man, have you ever worked in tech support? I admire your optimism.

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  • [–] 6 points 2 years ago (2 children)

    That's my day job and I'm good at it. People understand when I explain three clicks.

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  • [–] 20 points 2 years ago (12 children)

    It’s three clicks. And it opens a separate chat from the existing one. It’s obscure enough that you could say the UX deprioritizes (which at best is not an actively malicious design choice) usage of end-to-end encryption.

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  • [–] 9 points 2 years ago

    Encryption is part of defense strategy, otherwise it's like a steel door in a house with wall panels made of paper.

    That strategy involves all communications being encrypted. Otherwise rubber hose cryptanalysis becomes practical.

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  • [–] 37 points 2 years ago (2 children)

    When you can't use secret chat at ALL on desktop, fuck no it isn't.

    Assuming end-to-end encryption is what's meant in the question.

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  • [–] 34 points 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago) (5 children)

    If Telegram is considered an encrypted messenger, then FB messenger should be too. Works exactly the same. I don’t know about you, but being the same level as FB messenger should speak volumes to whether Telegram is “encrypted” or not 🙄

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  • [–] 17 points 2 years ago (1 child)

    FB messenger should be too. Works exactly the same. 🙄

    Facebook licensed Signal's encryption: https://signal.org/blog/facebook-messenger/

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  • [–] 23 points 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago) (3 children)

    Yeah, the fact that FB messenger uses Signal protocol, means the encryption is better recognized than the one used in Telegram. But the lack of on-by-default or the need to drill in a few options before enabling secret chats.. I mean it’s even named the same thing as Telegram.

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  • [–] 10 points 2 years ago (2 children)

    the fact that FB messenger uses Signal protocol, means the encryption is better than the one used in Telegram.

    MTProto 2 has not been cracked. MTProto 1 had a weakness and Telegram addressed it. That was many years ago. I'm not aware that MTProto 2 has ever been cracked in all these years. Telegram's unwillingness to cooperate with governments is an additional security layer.

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  • [–] 7 points 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago)

    In my OP, I was merely referring to how FB Messenger and Telegram functions the same.

    Speaking to the protocol used for encryption is a moot point… because even if MTProto 2 was better, it’s still not enabled by default in both messengers.

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    [–] 18 points 2 years ago* (10 children)

    One of the most important rules of cybersecurity is: never roll your own encryption.

    And what did the guys at Telegram do? Rolled their own encryption.

    If you are into Telegram because you think it's secure, think again. There are much better alternatives out there, adopting proved industry standards. Signal or Matrix just to name a few.

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  • [–] 8 points 2 years ago (1 child)

    No, it's not the rule itself. It's rather an advice not to do as rolling own crypto is very tricky and complicated thing. You have to be very aware of many possible attacks, how they do work, to create own crypto properly

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    [–] 12 points 2 years ago

    It can be that. But it is also a medium for public forums.

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  • [–] 7 points 2 years ago (2 children)

    Somehow it has public groups and requires your phone number. Not really sure how to find the groups though.

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