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[–] 1 point 13 hours ago

Battles are won by fighters. Wars are won by logistics clerks.

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  • [–] 39 points 4 days ago (1 child)

    When are we going to recognise that the whole "warrior ethos" bs is just an excuse for when assholes desperately want to cosplay as Rambo?

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  • [–] 4 points 3 days ago

    Well, because that’s not what the warrior ethos is to begin with.

    The ones seeking out an unnecessary fight are not following the warrior ethos as taught to the military. At least the Marines when it was required reading for me.

    The warrior ethos is about being willing to rise to the fight when it’s necessary, putting the others around you above yourself, and not backing down from the fight even in the face of death. Honor is the cornerstone of the warrior ethos, and being the aggressor in an unnecessary fight is not honorable.

    That’s exactly what all those school teachers, store clerks, and other everyday men in WWII did. The fight was necessary, they recognized that and stood up when called, left behind their homes and families to meet the fight head on, faced extreme circumstances and certain death and refused to back down.

    THAT is the warrior ethos. Not some blood lust.

    It’s a shame that those with a blood lust have coopted it.

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  • [–] 74 points 4 days ago (4 children)

    "The nation that will insist on drawing a broad line of demarcation between the fighting man and the thinking man is liable to find its fighting done by fools and its thinking done by cowards."

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    [–] 87 points 4 days ago (37 children)

    Robert Evans has said several times in recent episodes of BtB that the mentality of “good at war means good at killing” is demonstrably false. The US and USSR won WWII not by being better killers but by taking and holding territory (and while awful being less awful than the Nazis.) The US has arguably lost all its conflicts since then because they fell in love with the idea that you can bomb or brutalize your way to victory.

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  • [–] 8 points 4 days ago*

    but by taking and holding territory (and while awful being less awful than the Nazis.)

    It wasn't just a matter of territory or PR. The soviets placed a huge emphasis on logistics, both their own and the enemy's. A typical soviet operation was to attack with a first wave to find a breach, then send a fresh second wave into the breach to cause as much damage as possible to the enemy support crew. At that point, the second wave would evaluate whether they could hold against enemy reinforcements, and if not, retreat before they even arrived, satisfied with the damage they caused.

    The key difference in their approaches to war was that to the soviets, every worker who manufactures goods or drives a supply truck or fixes a tank was just as important to the war effort as the person on the front charging the front line. The Nazis placed all the emphasis on "warrior spirit" or whatever nonsense, the people on the front line were the only ones who mattered, and so to retreat from a position, especially without a fight, would be seen as cowardly (with potentially severe repercussions) even if it was the correct decision.

    The differences are also apparent in military technology. German tanks were very powerful, in line with Nazi power fantasies, but they were expensive to build and difficult to maintain or repair. Soviet tanks were much cheaper and mass produced, allowing them to field more of them, and of course the AK-47 is famous for it's simplistic design, if something goes wrong, it can easily be repaired in the field. As the war went on, German tanks and aircraft became increasingly convoluted and overengineered, ignoring that the actual weakness was logistics.

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  • [–] 11 points 4 days ago

    It depends on the objective of the war. Nation building is basically impossible. Killing the crap out of an enemy until they surrender is pretty effective historically. Killing the crap out of select targets while avoiding excessive civilian casualties is generally ineffective. WWII was a total war scenario, the US and USSR absolutely killed entire areas of German and Japanese towns.

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    [–] 26 points 4 days ago

    Amateurs study tactics; professionals study logistics.

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  • [–] 35 points 4 days ago (2 children)

    What does the warrior have that the pencil pusher doesn't? Spirit.
    What does the pencil pusher have that the warrior doesn't? Food and ammunition.

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  • [–] 37 points 5 days ago (3 children)

    Conservatives love Rambo II and hate Rambo I

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    [–] 25 points 4 days ago* (11 children)

    The people who become military when it is not wartime are psychos, believers and the desperate. The vast majority of people who are best at making war seem to choose to do other things with their time when it isn't wartime.

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    [–] 21 points 5 days ago (10 children)

    Turns out wars are won by the people who would really rather not be at war

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    [–] 14 points 5 days ago (1 child)

    Considering how poorly US soldiers perform compared to the other nations—just look how consistently they lose war games too—they really should drop the act. The US military is a tech military and the warriors are just users looking for work and benefits in a difficult society.

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  • [–] 21 points 4 days ago (1 child)

    This is also a leadership problem.

    The us military ran a massive wargame in 2002, and blue team got curbstomped by a red teamer who designed his strategy around what Iran would be able to do: shutting down shipping, avoiding sigint (using messengers on motorcycles to carry orders, for example), having a highly distributed and resilient command structure, using small speedboats to sneak in and damage American vessels who got too close.

    The military said "boo not fair you're supposed to let us blow you all up".

    Remarkably predictive all in all.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Millennium_Challenge_2002

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  • [–] 4 points 4 days ago

    It's also a problem with wargames in general. Since no one is dieing and there's no real stakes, it's more of a way for officers to show off their plans. If someone wins, but does it by deviating from the plan it makes the officers look bad. When there's actual lives on the line, winning starts looking better than how you won.

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  • [–] 12 points 5 days ago (1 child)

    Cultivate a forklift operator ethos

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  • [–] 9 points 4 days ago (1 child)

    The red army is a similar story. They were mostly farmers who were tired of farming for rich people.

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