Yes, the Steam Deck is great, and Steam is definitely one of the best games platforms there is. And Valve has done great work supporting Linux and open source development, and forcing more transparency for sellers on Steam.

But I feel like people sometimes just love valve for everything they do. GabeN is still a billionaire, buying super-yachts and stuff. Valve makes a ton of their money from gambling on loot crates in CS2 and TF2, and have not done enough (imo) to stop even more predatory third party item gambling sites. And whenever I bring stuff like that up people keep defending Valve.

We should be able to praise their great games and hardware, at the same time as criticising other parts of the company.

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[–] 48 points 1 month ago (2 children)

I think there's a bunch of different things conflated here:

  • valve is generally doing a lot of good things, even things that basically don't benefit them at all
  • gaben is a Billionaire with all the billionaire things
  • people love valve for all the good that they do
  • a bunch of people are pointing out that valve is still deeply involved in their gambling economy; in fact it seems to be a significant part of their profit margins
  • there's no +/- on this. The good valve does doesn't displace the bad they do.
  • a bunch of things can be true at once
  • we should praise them for the good an criticize them for the bad
  • people do not stop their opinion usually, it's just public focus that shifts to a new focal point.

What I'm trying to say is, from what I've seen most people are glad because valve is doing a bunch of good things while also being aware of the bad that they do. It's just more useful to criticize Microsoft or nvidia for doing net negative by a mile, and the public focus can only be so nuanced. Also people hesitate to punish valve for being bad, considering they might be one of the least bad big tech companies.

That's what I think anyway, and that would mean your opinion isn't unpopular just that the smaller parts of it interact in a different way than you describe.

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  • [–] [S] 6 points 1 month ago (20 children)

    In a lot of conversations I’ve had (not necessarily on lemmy) people defend a lot of valve criticism by saying things like ‘but look at all the good they do, or trying to justify that they need to do [shady thing] to fund their support for open source stuff. But maybe I just happened to have come across mostly only valve defenders.

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  • [–] 8 points 1 month ago (1 child)

    I similarly got ripped apart by Steam fanboys for trying to tout GOG over Steam.

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  • [–] 3 points 1 month ago (1 child)

    I thought the people behind gog were super problematic though? The transphobic stuff, the nazi imagery, the shitty responses when called out for the above...

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  • [–] 1 point 1 month ago*

    And conversely, I see a ton of people who criticize Valve extremely, sometimes literally hysterically, over issues they fundamentally do not understand, over things that ... Valve doesn't have any real control over... things that basically every comparable actor on the same stage does to a far worse degree than they do.

    People just don't like it when they cannot put things ideas and/or people into either the good box or the bad box.

    People don't like it when things are complicated, when things are a mixed bag... people do like it when they can be very emotional, either negatively or positively, about anything.

    Like here lets try this:

    Loot Gambling? Bad, very bad.

    Gacha games, Robux, etc., also bad, very bad.

    Open source development of Proton? Good, very good!

    Same with many, arguably as or even more important open source frameworks, systems, libraries, etc.

    30% ish cut of game sales? Not great, not terrible.

    Arguably reasonable, given all the awesome stuff Steam does in terms of free marketing and discoverability and distribution... definitely not perfect though.

    Steam Machine expensive, bad.

    But also... they're a company of less than 500 people. They're literally nobodies in terms of volume and sourcing parts in bulk for theoretical price discounts, and they actually have way, way less money to throw at stuff like that than what people are used to from other console manufacturers.

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  • [–] 26 points 1 month ago

    People praise a company that does a lot better than basically any other company. Not shocking and only makes sense when the norm is such shitty, anti-customer behavior. If the bar weren't so low, you'd never hear this much praise for any company.

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  • [–] 20 points 1 month ago*

    +1.

    I don’t trust Valve as far as I can throw them. I use, and appreciate, their service and products, but it is an exchange. I’d drop them like a rock as fast as they’d drop me.

    And I’m certainly not going to overlook the concerning parts of their business.

    Yet some online seem to think… I dunno, they’re on the same team?

    I just don’t get the parasocial relationships people get into with corporations. But then again, I don’t get a lot of stuff.

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  • [–] 13 points 1 month ago (1 child)

    Eh, not really unpopular opinion. Pretty much every post on lemmy about valve vs. competitors always mentions that steam wins by simply being the only storefront that understands the value of customer satisfaction and retention

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  • [–] [S] 4 points 1 month ago (1 child)

    pretty much every post mentions that steam wins by simply being the only storefront that understands the value of customer satisfaction and retention Yes, but I feel like that they often talk about in a way like they are on the same team. Like: “but steam/valve, they get us, they have our back” but maybe I am generalising too much.

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  • [–] 4 points 1 month ago* (1 child)

    No that's exactly it. "Same team."

    Especially the specific hostility to the "other team."

    I think human brains are just fundamentally tribal. We (in aggregate) simply cannot help ourselves.

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  • [–] 2 points 1 month ago

    Correct, we are wired for small group formation that anchors our individual and collective identities.

    Our brains, broadly, are very not good at existing in a world with billions of people with smartphones.

    So, we become parasocial, we become bigotted based on notions of different 'kinds' of people, we develop fandoms, etc.

    We're built for living in bands, tribes, of between 50 to 200 people.

    We have not biologically caught up with the last couple few % points of time of our entire evolutionary history, civilization and technology exploded way faster than natural selection can rewire our brains.

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  • [–] 6 points 1 month ago

    its like the pope or obama. unfortunately it should be typical for what it is but everything is so trumpy that it seems awesome.

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  • [–] 4 points 1 month ago

    Yachts are not a bad thing in and of themselves. If they run on fossil fuel, sure, that's not great. But someone has to build, staff, and maintain those yachts and that means they actually have a kind of trickle down effect.

    It's much worse when billionaires just sit on their money and let it increase passively by investing. That money is unavailable to anyone else. Or when they use it to gain political influence. But when billionaires actually consume, the problem with them being overly wealthy is lessened somewhat.

    I still believe that nobody earns more than a billion dollars but we need to focus on the important things. Keep money out of politics and redistribute wealth. Let rich people have their playthings.

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  • [–] 3 points 1 month ago* (1 child)

    I agree and am with you in believing that too many people see them with rose colored glasses.

    Some truth nukes 💣:

    • Steam is a storefront that is very good for consumers and that has a [benign] monopoly according to almost every metric.

    • They exclusively sell licenses, not ownership, of games.

    • Their pioneering and aggressive defense/proliferation of "loot crate" gambling mechanics has been one of the worst in gaming, ever.

    • Valve as a game developer is functionally dead. Their brand image is built on 4 IPs from two decades ago.

    • Gabe Newell has credibly been cited as being 99% hands-off with the daily operations at Valve for years, and if you do love Valve/Steam for what they do, it's an insult to the actual staff to credit their work to some CEO.

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  • [–] 3 points 1 month ago (1 child)

    Most laws don't have a problem with becoming a monopoly, the issue arises when you use your monopoly to stifle competition. Do we have any evidence of that?

    Also, given how copyright works, no one sells games, only licenses. The only games that could be sold are public domain - even FOSS software is license-based. Now, if you mean that the way Steam works that you can most often have access removed from a game after you've purchased it, that would be a more correct statement with competitors who behave differently.

    As for Gabe's influence, he set the direction and attitude of Valve. That isn't a day-to-day operation, but is vital to the operating principles of the company (which includes loot crates). This is no different than the CEO (or whoever) of Costco insisting those hot dogs can be bought for cheap. That is also not a major part of what he has to deal with while actively running the corporation, but everyone knows about it.

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  • [–] 0 points 1 month ago (1 child)

    You're right about monopolies, which is more than most Valve defenders are whenever the argument comes up. I've commented on this before, so I'll just repost my thoughts:

    "Monopoly" is neither illegal nor immoral. It's a de facto label given based on observation. A "good" company can still be a monopoly.

    Steam distributes ~75% of all PC games. It took me less than 30 seconds to find that that was the same market share needed to indict USMC in 1954. This is what happens when you hahave an entire (multiple?) generations who have grown up with gutted anti-trust policies.

    ETA from my other comment ITT but worth reiterating:

    ETA: Monopolies are generally allowed to exist in the US until they start either harming customers or engaging in flagrant anticompetitive measures. Without either of these, there is no victim class to sue. The Sherman Act makes it much easier to litigate instances of "harming customers."

    There are tons of existing private monopolies in the market today that are allowed to exist just because no one's sued for harm. The Govt. doesn't just go around trust busting without cause.

    The glass bottle industry is dominated by Owens, which has a ~85% market share but is allowed to continue because they're ostensibly the best for the economy. Glass bottles are cheap to buy and no one's really eager to start a competing plant. If either of those changed then trust busting might begin, but that doesn't mean they're not already a monopoly.

    You can argue what kind of monopoly that Steam is, but the idea that it's not is completely unfounded in reality.

    On hurting competition, there is room to debate. Over the past couple years, Valve has been under some serious scrutiny for their [benign] monopoly and whether or not it stifles competition. Courts in the UK have certainly seen enough support for this claim to allow a £656m class-action lawsuit to go-ahead.. In the US, a new lawsuit was recently filed alleging that Microsoft and Valve have been in collusion for decades and that Steam's no-tolerance price parity rules stifle competition and ruin any chance of smaller stores from making profit on margin.

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  • [–] 1 point 1 month ago
    [–] 0 points 1 month ago (1 child)

    They're a game company. It's not worth this much of your life.

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