65
Valve and GabeN get too much love. (discuss.tchncs.de)
submitted 1 month ago by to c/unpopularopinion@lemmy.world
54 comments fedilink hide all child comments
 

Yes, the Steam Deck is great, and Steam is definitely one of the best games platforms there is. And Valve has done great work supporting Linux and open source development, and forcing more transparency for sellers on Steam.

But I feel like people sometimes just love valve for everything they do. GabeN is still a billionaire, buying super-yachts and stuff. Valve makes a ton of their money from gambling on loot crates in CS2 and TF2, and have not done enough (imo) to stop even more predatory third party item gambling sites. And whenever I bring stuff like that up people keep defending Valve.

We should be able to praise their great games and hardware, at the same time as criticising other parts of the company.

you are viewing a single comment's thread
view the rest of the comments
[–] 48 points 1 month ago (2 children)

I think there's a bunch of different things conflated here:

  • valve is generally doing a lot of good things, even things that basically don't benefit them at all
  • gaben is a Billionaire with all the billionaire things
  • people love valve for all the good that they do
  • a bunch of people are pointing out that valve is still deeply involved in their gambling economy; in fact it seems to be a significant part of their profit margins
  • there's no +/- on this. The good valve does doesn't displace the bad they do.
  • a bunch of things can be true at once
  • we should praise them for the good an criticize them for the bad
  • people do not stop their opinion usually, it's just public focus that shifts to a new focal point.

What I'm trying to say is, from what I've seen most people are glad because valve is doing a bunch of good things while also being aware of the bad that they do. It's just more useful to criticize Microsoft or nvidia for doing net negative by a mile, and the public focus can only be so nuanced. Also people hesitate to punish valve for being bad, considering they might be one of the least bad big tech companies.

That's what I think anyway, and that would mean your opinion isn't unpopular just that the smaller parts of it interact in a different way than you describe.

  • permalink
  • fedilink
  • source
  • hideshow 4 child comments
    •
  • [–] [S] 6 points 1 month ago (3 children)

    In a lot of conversations I’ve had (not necessarily on lemmy) people defend a lot of valve criticism by saying things like ‘but look at all the good they do, or trying to justify that they need to do [shady thing] to fund their support for open source stuff. But maybe I just happened to have come across mostly only valve defenders.

  • permalink
  • fedilink
  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 6 child comments
    •
  • [–] 8 points 1 month ago (1 child)

    I similarly got ripped apart by Steam fanboys for trying to tout GOG over Steam.

  • permalink
  • fedilink
  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 2 child comments
    •
  • [–] 3 points 1 month ago (1 child)

    I thought the people behind gog were super problematic though? The transphobic stuff, the nazi imagery, the shitty responses when called out for the above...

  • permalink
  • fedilink
  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 2 child comments
    •
  • [–] 2 points 1 month ago
  • permalink
  • fedilink
  • source
  • parent
  • [–] 1 point 1 month ago*

    And conversely, I see a ton of people who criticize Valve extremely, sometimes literally hysterically, over issues they fundamentally do not understand, over things that ... Valve doesn't have any real control over... things that basically every comparable actor on the same stage does to a far worse degree than they do.

    People just don't like it when they cannot put things ideas and/or people into either the good box or the bad box.

    People don't like it when things are complicated, when things are a mixed bag... people do like it when they can be very emotional, either negatively or positively, about anything.

    Like here lets try this:

    Loot Gambling? Bad, very bad.

    Gacha games, Robux, etc., also bad, very bad.

    Open source development of Proton? Good, very good!

    Same with many, arguably as or even more important open source frameworks, systems, libraries, etc.

    30% ish cut of game sales? Not great, not terrible.

    Arguably reasonable, given all the awesome stuff Steam does in terms of free marketing and discoverability and distribution... definitely not perfect though.

    Steam Machine expensive, bad.

    But also... they're a company of less than 500 people. They're literally nobodies in terms of volume and sourcing parts in bulk for theoretical price discounts, and they actually have way, way less money to throw at stuff like that than what people are used to from other console manufacturers.

  • permalink
  • fedilink
  • source
  • parent
  • [–] 0 points 1 month ago (1 child)

    Is he really doing a lot of shady things? Maybe he just become a billionaire and adapted. For better or worse is the question, then compare him to the other billionaires. Having that amount of wealth changes people just like it would you or me and every other person here.

  • permalink
  • fedilink
  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 2 child comments
    •
  • [–] 0 points 1 month ago (1 child)

    "We can't really judge Hitler! Being a dictator just changes people. Was he better or worse than other dictators? Having that amount of power changes people just like it would you or me and every other person here."

  • permalink
  • fedilink
  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 2 child comments
    •
  • [–] 0 points 1 month ago (1 child)

    Comparing Gabe to Hitler is rather retarded. Gabe became a billionaire because people like steam. Hitler became a dictator because he was an evil bastard.

  • permalink
  • fedilink
  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 2 child comments
    •
  • [–] 2 points 1 month ago* (1 child)

    I was comparing your argument to one you could make about Hitler. If we agree your argument is reasonable, then we can also agree that the argument I made can be made for Hitler.

    It isn't reasonable. My point was not comparing Gabe to Hitler, because the entire argument is absurd. It was a proof by contradiction that we must not use arguments like this to justify evil actions, or we end up in a situation of being able to justify evil actions like what Hitler did. You agree that my argument is absurd, but it followed the same reasoning as yours, so yours is invalid as well. Gabe is not saved because being wealthy made him a greedy asshole. Your wealth is not an excuse for your actions or behavior.

  • permalink
  • fedilink
  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 2 child comments
    •
  • [–] 0 points 1 month ago* (1 child)

    You think Gabe is a greedy asshole and does evil actions. I just dont see that, i could just be ignorant or you could be over reacting.

    I dont think taking a heavy hand sometimes in the environment of a billionaire CEO of a tech company in some way is always wrong. My original point was he jumped up a lot and is now dealing with other even worse billionaires. Yeah he could play nice to make people like you happy and go out of business or be bought out by someone worse. But what do you honestly expect from him?

  • permalink
  • fedilink
  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 2 child comments
    •
  • [–] 0 points 1 month ago (2 children)

    He promotes gambling, with the knowledge that children are involved. He has facilitated using Steam's market dominance to persue anti-competitive practices, like not allowing games to be sold at a lower price anywhere else. There's more too. Yeah, he's not exactly good.

    I give zero fucks that he could be worse. If that's your only argument, your ethics are horrible. Someone being worse does nothing to make your actions better.

    Yeah he could play nice to make people like you happy and go out of business or be bought out by someone worse.

    Oh yeah, one of the most profitable companies per employee in the world is surely going to go out of business if they don't persue anti-consumer practices! Think of the poor billionaires! If they don't do these things, they will have slightly less money!

    What I expect from him is to stop leveraging their market dominance to do monopolistic actions. I expect them to compete fairly, not abuse their position to create barriers to competition. I expect them to take a look at their practice of promoting gambling and change to something less manipulative, particularly if they know children are involved (but adults too). These are the bare fucking minimum of what we should be asking for. What do you expect? You expect to be taken advantage of and abused?

  • permalink
  • fedilink
  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 4 child comments
    •
  • [–] 0 points 1 month ago (1 child)

    Saddly no big company follows good ethics. If he had, im sure valve would've been bought a while ago. Maybe that's what you want speaking like you do.

    But ill say another controversial statement, parents should be in control of what their kids do and are responsible for being exposed to tge gambling aspect you say steam promotes. Thats true for so many things now adays. Arguments like that is what is leading to a nation wide surveillance program.

  • permalink
  • fedilink
  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 2 child comments
    •
  • [–] 1 point 1 month ago (1 child)

    Lol. It's a private company. How could someone buy it? That's not how this works.

  • permalink
  • fedilink
  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 2 child comments
    •
  • [–] 2 points 1 month ago (1 child)

    Oh well yeah i didn't even think of that. My bad.

  • permalink
  • fedilink
  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 2 child comments
    •
  • [–] 2 points 1 month ago (1 child)

    I want to clarify my point on gambling too. It's psychologically manipulative. This is for adults and children. Do you agree it's morally wrong to manipulate people into making purchases? If so, you should be against their gambling. Pushing it on kids is just particularly immoral.

    And yes, parents should be responsible for their children. I'm not asking for age tracking to restrict children. I'm asking for them to not be pushers, trying to get children addicted to gambling. That's on them, not the parent. The parent should stop it, but we all know that isn't always going to happen, and taking advantage of this deficiency is immoral. They specifically create things that are aiming to get children into their casino. Two people can be at fault for this situation. The parents and Valve are to blame.

    As an example, if you made a Bluey themed casino and advertised it on Nickelodeon, or wherever kids watch things now, that'd obviously be fucked up, right? I hope we can all agree on that. If so, you don't think it's solely on the parents. We have a responsibility to call it out, wherever it's happening, because raising the next generation of adults is the responsibility of all of society. Yes, primarily parents, but everyone. That's why the "think of the children" garbage is so effective. Basically everyone agrees with this, so it's easy to abuse.

    This isn't saying the age verification is good, just because it uses that argument. It isn't honest about the intent. That's an excuse. That doesn't mean there's no marit the the argument itself though. It's just being abused to do evil things, as evil often does.

  • permalink
  • fedilink
  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 2 child comments
    •
  • [–] 1 point 1 month ago (1 child)

    I agree on most of what you say. But i dont own a pc, nor do i actually deal with steam at all. Im more of a devils advocate kind of asshole. And i have no idea how a platform that hosts others games is pushing gambling onto kids. If its by allowing microtransactions like everywhere else then you should also be mad at phone companies. My sister racked up over 2k worth because she would apply purchases to the phone bill instead. And its not like we were notified, that seems shittier then what i can imagine steam is doing. But i admit i dont know these gambling claims you refer too.

  • permalink
  • fedilink
  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 2 child comments
    •
  • [–] 0 points 1 month ago (1 child)

    They sell loot boxes in CS and TF. They also haven't done much to fight third party gambling sites, which promote on Valve hosted esports events.

    If its by allowing microtransactions like everywhere else then you should also be mad at phone companies.

    Yeah... And? Why would you think I'm not? Who cares? This isn't about them. I'm mad about a lot of stuff that's happening. I don't have to mention it in every conversation. Again, someone else doing something bad doesn't justify any other actions.

  • permalink
  • fedilink
  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 2 child comments
    •
  • [–] 0 points 1 month ago (1 child)

    Yeah im not mad about those the same way you are. A child still has to get card info in order to purchase them, where as the point of bringing up phone companies was that it allowed kids to make purchases through the phone bill with no supervision what so ever. Im actually a bit disappointed that all you have to complain about are some loot boxes and other severvices which buy ad space from valve.

  • permalink
  • fedilink
  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 2 child comments
    •
  • [–] 0 points 1 month ago* (last edited 1 month ago) (1 child)

    The third party sites, which use Steam, don't need a card. You gamble with skins, so the kid can ask the parent for skins, and then gamble with those without the parent knowing. Also, the Steam wallet can be used to purchase stuff too.

    In early complained about anti-competitive practices too earlier. That's what this one particular thing was about though, and it's far from just ads. They use Steam services to host gambling, and Valve let's them use their space to advertise. It's far worse than you're implying. I don't know if you're purposefully being obtuse or not.

    Edit: I'm done with this. You refuse to change your mind, defending them no matter what (just because others are worse). This is made worse because you aren't even involved and don't know what you're talking about. You aren't even aware of the gambling controversy, which has been around for more than a decade. You aren't engaging in good faith. You're just arguing, and others have to inform you on every aspect, because you literally aren't even aware of the basics. Why are you even engaging? You haven't cared enough to engage and be informed, so stop wasting everyone's time.

  • permalink
  • fedilink
  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 2 child comments
    •
  • [–] 1 point 1 month ago (1 child)

    Okay well it was all in good faith. Your argument just couldnt sway me because it still sounds like its the parents fault for what they are buying for their kids. You come across as someone who wants guardrails across the internet to stop the big bad Gabe from getting kids into gambling. Which again to bring up another bad point, but kids can buy lottery scratch offs at walmart without id then go turn them in if its less then 500 or something without having to be 18. Then repeat that process. But loot boxes and whatever the fuck skins are which require their parents consent is where you really raise a fuss? Thats on the parents for failing to understand what the money is going to. Plus i dont even see this as a major issue with all the other shit thats an issue.

    So yeah if your done then, then have a nice day, bye

  • permalink
  • fedilink
  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 2 child comments
    •
  • [–] 0 points 1 month ago (1 child)

    It's not really in good faith if you don't care and you don't want to try to be informed. You are seemingly unaware of the basic things at issue, but you're sealioning to protect Valve. If you looked into things yourself, because you cared, fine. You don't care, so pretending you do is arguing in bad faith. I shouldn't need to inform you on everything Valve has done in the past 20+ years.

  • permalink
  • fedilink
  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 2 child comments
    •
  • [–] 1 point 1 month ago

    Yeah im not nitpicking them like you are, if i dont know of their crimes against humanity like you act, then i doubt they exist. I dont even care at all to protect valve, i just dont see tgem as a villain.

  • permalink
  • fedilink
  • source
  • parent