608
manbearpig (quokk.au)
submitted 7 months ago by [M] to c/peoplemastodon@quokk.au
360 comments fedilink hide all child comments
 
you are viewing a single comment's thread
view the rest of the comments
[–] 21 points 7 months ago* (last edited 7 months ago) (3 children)

Bro. I know you're not a rapist, but you're going to have to accept that lots of men are rapists. If you want people to think of men in general as nice people, you need to fight the rapists. Right now you're not doing that.

  • permalink
  • fedilink
  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 6 child comments
    •
  • [–] 18 points 7 months ago (4 children)

    This is such a horrific take. "If you don't want people to hate you, you need to hate yourself". Is that the message you want to send to people? You should be ashamed of yourself. Everyone deserves an equal chance no matter the gender they were born with. I hope you reconsider your bigoted ways in the future.

  • permalink
  • fedilink
  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 8 child comments
    •
  • [–] 28 points 7 months ago (1 child)

    Its interesting how you interpreted their premises:

    1. A lot of men are rapists even though you aren't.
    2. Be kind.
    3. Continue to fight the rapists

    As "if you don't want people to hate you, you need to hate yourself". I don't understand where you are getting this take from these three premises, could you further explain?

  • permalink
  • fedilink
  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 2 child comments
    •
  • [–] 7 points 7 months ago (3 children)

    "If you want people to think of men in general as nice people you need to fight the rapists". You see no problem with that statement? It assumes men are rapists by default. I do not think of men as rapists by default. That is, by definition, sexism. It says "hey unless you prove that you're one of the Good Ones I'm going to assume otherwise". You're okay with that statement and comfortable with it being applied to other groups?

  • permalink
  • fedilink
  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 6 child comments
    •
  • [–] 17 points 7 months ago (1 child)

    it assumes men are rapists by default.

    No, it assumes that rapists are men by default, which is eminently reasonable.

    (At least) a full third of the non-male population reports occurrences of sexual assault (which admittedly isn't rape) by a man. So I'm not sure why that doesn't offend you much more than the fact that hardly anyone reports being attacked by a bear.

  • permalink
  • fedilink
  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 2 child comments
    •
  • [–] 7 points 7 months ago (1 child)

    Probably because people are around people 24/7 and people are only around bears a short time? You wanna compare the time spent in close proximity with men and being raped vs bears and being attacked? This is why this is such a dumb argument. "Wow sharks are pretty deadly" Vending machines kill more people per year. Because people are around them more, not because they're inherently more dangerous than sharks. Good lord.

  • permalink
  • fedilink
  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 2 child comments
    •
  • [–] 15 points 7 months ago (1 child)

    you're still misunderstanding something here. bears act consistently. men are a spectrum. if a woman encounters a bear in the woods, she can prepare for that. she knows to back away slowly, and if the bear approaches to make herself big. if that's not enough there's a decent chance she has a can of bear mace on her.

    if she encounters a man the mental calculus is different because some men are huge problems, some men are decent helpful people, some men are decent helpful people performatively and she has to continually assess if man is a huge problem acting like he isn't.

    part of the reason women say they'd rather encounter a random bear than a random man in the woods is that they've spent a lifetime around men and what to do about one is far more complicated than what to do about an 800 lb coward who acts very consistently

  • permalink
  • fedilink
  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 2 child comments
    •
  • [–] 5 points 7 months ago (3 children)

    Hey if you dated an 800 lb coward that's on you.

    Alright, you want me to level with you? I'll level with you. I've been HORRIBLY abused by women. I'm not talking little cigarette burns (though I have those too), I'm talking big ass knife gashes that are still painfully scarred 25 years on. I have been physically, sexually, and mentally abused and tortured for decades. And the only way I choose a bear which equals death over the vague possible CHANCE I could be abused again is if I was suicidal again. This is such a dumb argument. I'm not talking about this anymore.

  • permalink
  • fedilink
  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 6 child comments
    •
  • [–] 14 points 7 months ago

    encountering a bear != spending time with bear

    i'm sorry you went through add that. but the bear is not going to kill you on sight or emotionally manipulate you or rape you, which is what's being got at. i just ask that you look at those awful experiences of rape culture you had and have some empathy for that it creates a culture of fear that men and women both exist in as they navigate the world, and that makes it to where it's easier to imagine a scenario you can plan for and deal with than a scenario where you are nervous the entire time.

  • permalink
  • fedilink
  • source
  • parent
  • [–] 6 points 7 months ago (1 child)

    You're not taking about this anymore because you've been proven ridiculously wrong in a comment thread bro

    You're feelings got hurt

    You're probably not great with women

    This CUT YOU because "not all men!"

    Self reflect. There's s reason everyone is saying the same thing to you bro. There's a reason this makes you angry.

  • permalink
  • fedilink
  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 2 child comments
    •
  • [–] 10 points 7 months ago

    No where in that statement is it suggested to consider ALL men rapists. Where are you getting this? Fighting "the rapists" means fighting the rapists, not all men? You are interpretting this in a way that goes way beyond what was stated.

  • permalink
  • fedilink
  • source
  • parent
  • [–] 7 points 7 months ago

    Are you claiming there aren't men that are rapists?

    So why wouldn't you fight against these rapist men? Because they are men and you don't think of them as rapist by default?

    We are specifically calling out rapists men, not all men. You are the one who claims that.

    I don't want any rapists to exist. They should all be eliminated.

  • permalink
  • fedilink
  • source
  • parent
  • [–] 12 points 7 months ago (1 child)

    You can't argue people into liking you. It doesn't work like that.

    You can argue people into tolerating you, that's what the queer and civil rights movements have been doing. But once you're tolerated, arguing doesn't get you any farther. If you want to be liked, you need to be kind.

  • permalink
  • fedilink
  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 2 child comments
    •
  • [–] 8 points 7 months ago (1 child)

    Do you think you are being kind in this moment?

  • permalink
  • fedilink
  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 2 child comments
    •
  • [–] 11 points 7 months ago (1 child)

    Yeah. I'm trying to help you. Your current strategy isn't making you happy. I want you to be happy. I'm trying to explain how to do that.

  • permalink
  • fedilink
  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 2 child comments
    •
  • [–] 2 points 7 months ago

    Oh, honey. I'm very happy lol. I get depressed when I see people like you spewing bigoted hate but I've grown used to it. It's okay. I'd rather jump off a bridge than have your bigoted beliefs but everyone has the right to their own opinion.

  • permalink
  • fedilink
  • source
  • parent
  • [–] 2 points 7 months ago

    “If you don’t want people to hate you, you need to hate yourself”. Is that the message you want to send to people?

    Where did they say this?? I see nothing telling anyone to hate themselves. They're saying to fight rapists and that doing so will give men a better reputation. Please explain what you mean by "need to hate yourself"

    @reliv3@lemmy.world said:

    [...] but for me (who is a man) that [your comment about women being cautious "giving men lasting mental health issues and extreme social anxiety"] is not how it affects me. The fact that there exists a lot of mysogonistic men doesn’t reflect on me. I am confident that I’d be one of the men who’d just leave a woman alone if we ever met in the woods, so knowing that there are a lot of men out their who wouldn’t doesn’t get me salty at the women who are fearful of them; but rather, it gets me salty at the shithead men out there who are ultimately the root of the women’s fear.

    which is a based take

  • permalink
  • fedilink
  • source
  • parent
  • [–] 3 points 7 months ago*

    So, "I know you're one of the good ones, but you're going to have to accept that lots of black men are criminals. If you want people to think of black men in general as nice people, you need to fight the criminals. Right now you're not doing that." would be an acceptable thing to say to a black person?

    Even if statistically the classic "50% 13% racist statistic" is true, it's still seen as wrong to be scared of black men with no other reason than their skin color, why then is it ok to be scared of black men with no other reason than their gender?

    I posit that in both cases generalization is harmful, both to society at large and to those generalized, statistics or not.

    Like don't get me wrong stay safe out there, but also don't get caught up making generalizations based on demographics, that historically has been a "bad" thing.

    Not for nothing, "all men are rapists" is fairly new, it used to be "the hypersexual ne*ro rape beast" during the Jim Crow era.

    https://jimcrowmuseum.ferris.edu/brute/homepage.htm

    The "terrible crime" most often mentioned in connection with the black brute was rape, specifically the rape of a white woman. At the beginning of the twentieth century, much of the virulent, anti-black propaganda that found its way into scientific journals, local newspapers, and best-selling novels focused on the stereotype of the black rapist. The claim that black brutes were, in epidemic numbers, raping white women became the public rationalization for the lynching of black people.

    Maybe it's time to drop the "All X does Y" thing after all? I know then it's harder to sell fear to swaths of people but like, good?

  • permalink
  • fedilink
  • source
  • parent
  • [–] 1 point 7 months ago (1 child)

    What more should we be doing to fight rapists? It's likely that rape is already proscribed legally and morally wherever most commenters are from.

  • permalink
  • fedilink
  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 2 child comments
    •
  • [–] 2 points 7 months ago (1 child)

    Dismantle capitalism. Pedophiles like Trump are using their money to get away with it.

    Also, support women who complain about rapists.

  • permalink
  • fedilink
  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 2 child comments
    •