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[–] 10 points 3 years ago (1 child)

I'd say it's more like disguised feudalism. We're all peasants for the few kings and queens that have all the money at the top.

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  • [–] 0 points 3 years ago (11 children)

    I don't think people actually agree on the definition of capitalism itself, I just looked it up and was a little surprised how definitive it is:

    an economic and political system in which a country's trade and industry are controlled by private owners for profit.

    If you asked whether capitalism is a political system, at least in my random polling, 2 out of 9 respondents said No.

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  • [–] 5 points 3 years ago (1 child)

    If anything this understates the problem.

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  • [–] 1 point 3 years ago (1 child)

    True, because it's also a giant Ponzi scheme. We pick up new debt today to pay off debt from yesterday, and we hope expanding GDP and inflation will always offset the difference.

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  • [–] 1 point 3 years ago (1 child)

    Is there a difference between a pyramid and a ponzi scheme?

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  • [–] 1 point 3 years ago*

    It's used so interchangeably these days that I'm inclined to say no, but an oversimplication is that a ponzi scheme is always illegal and is more detailed in its mechanics (as named after conman Charles Ponzi). Wheras a pyramid scheme (or more commonly known: MLM) can actually be legal depending on how it's constructed.

    A ponzi scheme involves a conman who scams his customers by taking massive profits from their investors and requires a constant stream of new investors to pay off the old ones. This is fraud.

    A pyramid scheme usually involves some type of product and pays huge bonuses to the recruiters at the top for bringing in more people below them from the investment of new people below them. This is taxing uneducated people but can be legal.

    TLDR: capitalism is more akin to a pyramid scheme and not at all like a ponzi scheme.

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  • [–] 4 points 3 years ago

    To all the people here ranting about monetary debt: its not an issue. Money isn't designed to hold value in the long term. It's a feature, not a bug.

    It's just really unfortunate for those who play the game as if money were an asset. It's meant for transactions, not for storage.

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  • [–] 3 points 3 years ago (1 child)

    Honestly one of the reasons I fell for a pyramid scheme coming out of high school.

    A friend invited me and I went to shit on it and get him out, but the main guy's whole thing was "everything is a pyramid scheme, at least here you have the chance to build a pyramid beneath you."

    Obviously there were other reasons as old as time, but the argument of "so what, your 'regular job' is already a pyramid scheme you can't win" was pretty rattling to a teenager in 2011.

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  • [–] 2 points 3 years ago (3 children)

    The difference between a pyramid scheme and a good business is where your money comes from, in a pyramid scheme it comes from the people at the bottom of the pyramid, in a business it comes from selling goods and/or services, that's not saying I agree with big business, but one is profiting off of legitimate customers, the other is profiting off it's own "employees". I nearly got caught into one a few years ago too, until I realized what it was, at that point they had only taken a couple $100 for the interview and sign up stage, i had to block my card for them to never get access again, because even though i didnt complete sign up, thwy kept charging me monthly

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  • [–] 3 points 3 years ago

    and with a disappointing lack of giant pyramids, no less!

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  • [–] 3 points 3 years ago (1 child)

    Yes Marx formalized this opinion.

    It's the owners of the land and the means of production that control all of the wealth.

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  • [–] 2 points 3 years ago

    Some retirement saving schemes may be a pyramid scheme. When the population growth stagnates, there will not be enough young people to produce for everyone.

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  • [–] 2 points 3 years ago (2 children)

    It fundamentally is NOT a pyramid scheme. In a pyramid scheme there is no actual product or service of value and simply extracts wealth from the people in lower tiers. Value, or wealth, is simply the byproduct of an equitable transaction between two or more parties.

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  • [–] 2 points 3 years ago

    Except that you're describing commerce, not capitalism. Capitalism is the idea that the commerce has value, and that one can own the value of the commercial activity. Further, the value of the business is tied to it's growth.

    Further, products and services are never exchanged in an equitable transaction between two parties, because capitalism necessitates a third party, the capitalist. The capitalist must acquire products and services from employees for less than their true value, and then sell them to consumers for more than their true value.

    And because capitalism demands growth, one or both of those two margins must continue to expand. This means workers must be pressured to work for less and less, which is why the capitalist opposes social services, universal healthcare, and affordable housing. This also means the capitalism opposes consumer protections, environmental protections, and taxes that provide a functioning society that might interfere with their growth.

    Now what happens when every producer and consumer is fighting for the same margins, the same advantages, and the same growth? Then the capitalist seeks new avenues for new capital and new capitalists. Building business on ensuring the growth of business for other capitalists. Selling the idea that you, too, can join us at the top of the pyramid, all the while kicking down ladders they climbed to get there.

    So no, the system itself isn't a pyramid scheme. It's just an idea that encourages pyramid schemes because it relies on impossible growth, like a cancer eating away at society.

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  • [–] 1 point 3 years ago (2 children)

    How so though? This sounds like a statement that's meant to be flashy but doesn't actually hold up. Pyramid schemes are characterized by a) an eventual lack of ability to recruit more people, b) recruitment rather than a product or a service being the driver, and c) a person at the bottom left with nothing, including recourse. Capitalism, even completely free capitalism, doesn't work like that unless you specifically rig it to do so. That's called "corruption".

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  • [–] 1 point 3 years ago

    an eventual lack of ability to recruit more people

    Global population growth is slowing and predicted to halt within the next few decades.

    The modern economy has always relied on an environment of growth, which will now end. In some ways this resembles a pyramid scheme; in the past anyone making investments in the economy could count on a larger new generation of people coming into the market needing to exchange their labor for those hoarded resources. Since this is no longer going to be the case, new entrants to the market are going to be getting a lot less for their effort than they may have expected based on past trends.

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    [–] 1 point 3 years ago (1 child)

    would you sign up to my pyramid scheme if I was a cat?? 🥺

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    [–] 1 point 3 years ago (1 child)

    To be more specific, fractional-reserve banking system creates this giant pyramid scheme, not capitalism per se.

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  • [+] 0 points 3 years ago* (last edited 3 years ago) (1 child)
  • [–] 0 points 3 years ago (12 children)

    No, it is not. It is brutal in many ways. But that it is not. Neither is socialomswor communism.

    Pyramid schemes are zero-sum. I steal and gain, you lose. Capitalism and even communism are not zero-sum games. They are net-positive. They involve people making goods and services for others.

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