In the past, laminated glass was usually installed in the windshield, with side and rear windows being tempered only.

The difference is that tempered glass is per-stressed so that when it cracks, it shatters into many tiny and dull pieces. Laminated is the same thing, but with layers of plastic sandwiched with layers of tempered glass. Laminated glass will still shatter, but will be held together by the plastic layers.

In an emergency, small improvised, or purpose built tools meant to shatter tempered glass will be useless if the glass is laminated.

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[–] 181 points 2 years ago* (35 children)

The problem wasn't the glass.

The problem was using wtf touchscreen controls to shift between drive and reverse. Mrs. Chao confused the two then died.

Shitty UI kills another person. Tesla fucking up basic UI design is the real villain here.

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  • [–] 91 points 2 years ago (2 children)

    I still blame Jeep for thinking a rotating selector was a good idea for a gear shifter. RIP Anton Yelchin.

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  • [–] 38 points 2 years ago*

    I thought his jeep issue was that P on the dial didn't actually guarantee the parking pawl was engaged to stop it from rolling. Separate from the lack of positive engagement with the P position, more about the physical disconnect between the two. Unless that was just the non-offensive language version of "user didn't turn the dial all the way and our polite warning chime was too polite"

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  • [–] 42 points 2 years ago (1 child)

    Sounds like both things are a problem?

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  • [–] 34 points 2 years ago* (1 child)

    I'm more inclined to blame Tesla's electronic locks and confusing manual override before blaming the windows though

    Quick, do you know which panel to remove to find the non-electronic manual override in a Tesla? Car is sinking fast and the electronics just shorted out from the lake.

    But sure, tons of bad design decisions here. It's hard to blame any one of them as the singular cause. If Tesla had easier to use manual override doors instead of electronic locks, if the windows could be broken, if the screen wasn't a confusing touchscreen mess, etc. Etc. Lots of factors and all are the cause.

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    [–] 115 points 2 years ago (3 children)

    it shatters into many tiny and dull pieces

    Those pieces are not dull. They're just not jagged and shaped like knives like normal glass. I accidentally broke the rear window on my truck and, thinking it was dull like you described, started to pick it up with my hands. Big mistake.

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  • [–] 38 points 2 years ago (1 child)

    You just unlocked a very unpleasant memory of picking up small glass pieces with my hand. Like you said, big mistake and the worst was that I didn't notice it was cutting at first...

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  • [–] 36 points 2 years ago (1 child)

    One time I was climbing a rock in a park in Illinois, and reached up into a pile of finely-ground glass.

    I managed to pick all but one little piece out of my fingers. That one piece was so far in I couldn’t get it.

    Later on, I couldn’t find it. So I figured it had come out.

    But a few weeks later my palm itched and that fucking piece of glass poked its way out of my palm.

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    [–] 104 points 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago) (20 children)

    This is astroturfing.

    The issue with Tesla has never been that the windows are hard to break. The issue is that the rear doors are electronic with manual override hidden in a camouflaged panel at the bottom of the door pocket. A door pocket that was added to hold things. Those things will block access to the emergency door open.

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  • [–] 12 points 2 years ago

    This is coming up because of the recent drowning, right? Is someone saying the driver was unable to escape because she was unable to open a back door? It would make sense of there was an issue with rescuers unable to break rear windows, but how is the inaccessibility of the internal rear door emergency open cord relevant to this case?

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  • [–] 12 points 2 years ago (2 children)

    If you're underwater you're not gonna be able to open the doors without breaking the window unless there's an explosive. But partially submerged when 20% of the door is still above water then yes it should be possible to still open the door

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    [+] 89 points 2 years ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (2 children)
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    [–] 56 points 2 years ago

    We need HARD rules and regulations for car door handles and common controls. This push for screens and lack physical elements needs to stop.

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  • [–] 53 points 2 years ago* (5 children)

    And Tesla, being the helpful sort, also makes it hard to open the doors in an emergency. The front might have manual door release mechanism somewhere - good luck finding it when the car is on fire or sinking. The rear... not so much.

    EuroNCAP is changing its testing regime to negatively score manufacturers who remove critical physical controls and it should probably include door handles in that regime.

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  • [–] 17 points 2 years ago (2 children)

    Not that I disagree with you generally, but in the recent case, manual door release wouldn't have helped, as it's basically impossible to push open a car door against the water pressure outside a submerged car.

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  • [–] 12 points 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago) (1 child)

    Yes, you wait for pressure to equalize. But in a Tesla after pressure has equalized and you could open the rear door, the manual rear seat door open is a pull string under a camouflaged panel at the bottom of the door pocket. A door pocket that is probably filled with stuff because Tesla added the door pocket so you can put stuff in it.

    It's intentionally designed to be unsafe.

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  • [–] 10 points 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago)

    It's still possible to open it before the car submerges. It's also possible to open it if you have the wherewithal to wait until the inside is nearly full. That's providing you know where the damned release lever is. But if you're panicking and pushing the electronic release and nothing happens then you're going to die no matter what. Same too if the car is on fire or whatever.

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    [–] 31 points 2 years ago (3 children)

    Wasn't it also the door opening mechanism was electronic and it stopped functioning once underwater?

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  • [–] 15 points 2 years ago (3 children)

    There is apparently a manual lever hidden underneath the button, but that sure does seem like a bad design idea in an emergency.

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  • [–] 17 points 2 years ago (5 children)

    I hate Tesla and traded mine in after only two months of ownership, but in no way is the lever hidden or not extremely obvious. In fact it is more obvious than the button. Several times I had passengers try to use the manual lever, which doesn't lower the window when used. After the second person did it, moving forward I told every person who hadn't been in my car before to use the button before getting out. Was one of the many reasons I traded it in.

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    [–] 21 points 2 years ago (24 children)

    You're not breaking a tempered glass without the designated tool either and almost nobody has that. There's this famous clip of a news anchor demonstrating how "easy" it is to break a car window with a hammer and he needed like 8 attempts.

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    [–] 16 points 2 years ago

    The reason Tesla was in the news over this was because a rich lady reversed into a pond. So the rear windows wouldn't be facing up in that situation...

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  • [–] 12 points 2 years ago (4 children)

    Why did they switch to laminated in the side and rear windows?

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    [–] 9 points 2 years ago (1 child)

    Tempered glass windows offer better theft protection which is why they are increasingly used.

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  • [–] 37 points 2 years ago (1 child)

    Laminated*

    They're used for noise insulation not theft. In theft it's just a minor inconvenience. Shatter the window with a rock, then punch the floppy laminated shards in.

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  • [–] 11 points 2 years ago

    No, more often, it's smash the laminated window, get confused and then smash another window. If the 2nd window isn't laminated, they're in, if it is laminated too, then they smash your quarter glass since they're basically never laminated.

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  • [–] 9 points 2 years ago (17 children)

    Anyone know of a reasonable tool that can get through laminated glass and be kept near the drivers seat?

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