Press secretary Karoline Leavitt claimed the apparent war crime was legal even as she said Defense Secretary Pete Hegseth knew nothing about it.

The White House on Monday shifted the blame for killing the survivors of a U.S. military strike on an alleged drug smuggling boat from Defense Secretary Pete Hegseth and onto the commanding admiral.

Killing survivors of a destroyed vessel is literally an example of a war crime in the U.S. Department of Defense Law of War Manual. “For example, orders to fire upon the shipwrecked would be clearly illegal,” the manual reads.

Press secretary Karoline Leavitt, nevertheless, repeatedly stated that it was legal – even as she further claimed, as Donald Trump did Sunday, that Hegseth was unaware that it had happened.

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[–] 216 points 8 months ago (1 child)

And this is one of the many, many good reasons why one does not comply with illegal orders, damn it!

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  • [–] 20 points 8 months ago (2 children)

    Ah, yes the most upstanding army that didn't comply to illegal orders in Vietnam, Iraq, Afghanistan, Syria et al.

    The fuck you guys smoking?

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  • [–] 107 points 8 months ago (2 children)

    Oh look, exactly what Mark Kelly was talking about. Shit rolls down hill guys. Remember that when someone orders you to murder people.

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  • [–] 37 points 8 months ago

    The top brass who aren't full on MAGA, but didn't leave now have clear proof that they are expendable and will be scapegoated to protect Trump and his croneys. Honestly showing their hand at this stage gives me a lot of hope that any coup won't happen now and resistance will be strengthened from within. I smell leaks coming!

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  • [–] 100 points 8 months ago (6 children)

    Killing survivors of a destroyed vessel is literally an example of a war crime in the U.S. Department of Defense Law of War Manual. “For example, orders to fire upon the shipwrecked would be clearly illegal,” the manual reads.

    RTFM

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    [–] 77 points 8 months ago

    As they should. But the fact that he chose to follow an obviously illegal order, doesn't absolve the ones who gave that order. This should in no way, take the heat off Hegseth...or Trump himself.

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  • [–] 70 points 8 months ago (4 children)

    Follow illegal orders, get thrown under the bus.

    Dont follow illegal orders, get thrown under the bus.

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    [–] 58 points 8 months ago (2 children)

    So we went from denial, to it happened but it wasn't us...

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  • [–] 30 points 8 months ago*

    The Narcissist’s Prayer:

    That didn't happen.
    And if it did, it wasn't that bad.
    And if it was, that's not a big deal.
    And if it is, that's not my fault. <— we are here
    And if it was, I didn't mean it.
    And if I did, you deserved it.

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  • [–] 24 points 8 months ago (1 child)

    I think we're currently in the phase where it's rapidly undulating between both takes.

    Give it another week and it'll devolve into "what firing on shipwrecked people? What are you talking about? Lalalala, I can't hear you!"

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  • [–] 58 points 8 months ago (2 children)

    I can’t believe it was Joe Biden that flew the plane.

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    [–] 52 points 8 months ago (2 children)

    Hey military— see what happens when you obey illegal orders?

    ⤵️🚌

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  • [–] 8 points 8 months ago (2 children)

    I mean, probably nothing. Its not like anyone is going to investigate or prosecute. Trump's just throwing up chaff so he can whine about the press treating him unfairly. "We didn't do it, but if we did it would have been based and cool, and don't think we won't do the thing we didn't do again if we feel like it" is exactly what I'd have expected to hear from a PR flack in the Bush or Reagan Era.

    Hell, I'm pretty sure this is the line Bush Sr used when the US shot down that Iranian passenger airliner. Nobody suffered any kind of consequence for that, either. Hell, the air warfare coordinator on duty received the Navy Commendation Medal after killing a few hundred civilians.

    I bet Trump's Navy Command is going to look like late-stage Brezhnev by the time he's finished passing out pins and ribbons for civilian casualties.

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    [–] 45 points 8 months ago (1 child)

    If he ordered it, or complied with the order from above, lock him up. If not, this accusation is yet another confession.

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  • [–] 43 points 8 months ago

    It was LEGAL but ALSO Pete Hegseth DIDNT know about it AND we Fired someone Over it!

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  • [–] 42 points 8 months ago

    As was said elsewhere, the transmitted command will have been recorded. The hard undeniable truth can be provided. Congress just needs to subpoena it, or a soldier with a conscience needs to whistleblow and leak it. Otherwise, we trust the liars' word and they get away with yet more of what are unquestionably, objectively, war crimes.

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  • [–] 37 points 8 months ago* (3 children)

    We also don't fight with stupid rules of engagement. We untie the hands of our warfighters to intimidate, demoralize, hunt and kill the enemies of our country. No more politically correct and overbearing rules of engagement, just common sense, maximum lethality and authority for warfighters.

    Pete Hegseth [Source]

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    [–] 36 points 8 months ago* (2 children)

    Ok... So common sense would read that as: ' it wasn't legal, it's a prime example of a war crime, and Pete may not have explicitly approved of that action, but probably gave a vague order like 'no survivors' , which the admiral took literally, and so it's entirely the admirals fault for not disobeying an unlawful order. '

    All I want for Christmas is a military coup, cold hard justice for the traitors enabling Trump, and emergency elections, monitored by the military, and un observers

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  • [–] 20 points 8 months ago

    Ordering that operations be conducted on the basis that there be "no survivors" is also specifically cited as an example of a war crime by the same manual: "Moreover, it is also prohibited to conduct hostilities on the basis that there shall be no survivors, or to threaten the adversary with the denial of quarter."

    Page 211 https://media.defense.gov/2023/Jul/31/2003271432/-1/-1/0/DOD-LAW-OF-WAR-MANUAL-JUNE-2015-UPDATED-JULY%202023.PDF

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  • [–] 35 points 8 months ago

    Hmm, I wonder why Admiral Holsey decided to retire when he did. 🤔

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  • [–] 33 points 8 months ago

    First of all, blowing up a boat like is illegal. Even if it was legal you'll have to prove that the boat contained drugs, but you just blowed your evidences! The guys that survived the attack then would have no charges over them and would be set free. Probably these guys were innocent and the boat was not a drug boat, thus they killed them as a cover up

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  • [–] 30 points 8 months ago (2 children)

    Can it be a war crime if you’re not actually at war? Seems like it’s just murder.

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    [–] 29 points 8 months ago (1 child)

    As a sailor, I find the whole shoddy affair most disgusting.

    Yes in war (and this was by no means a war) we may seek to kill one another as enemies, but every sailor knows, it is the sea who is the ultimate enemy.

    A human adrift at sea is a pitiful thing. To save them is to save ourselves.

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  • [–] 18 points 8 months ago (1 child)

    Even in WWII, the German Navy refused Hitler's illegal orders and outright saved or radioed the location of boats they sunk and survivors in the water, even to the peril of their crew stealth. It pissed Hitler off early in the war.

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  • [–] 11 points 8 months ago (1 child)

    Captain Zur See Hans Langsdorff of the Graf Spee was famous for this. It did eventually cost him his ship though he saved the majority of his crew along with any Allied prisoners he had aboard.

    The German submarine fleet, on the other hand, was less inclined to do this primarily due to the nature of the submarine as a weapon. Though there were exceptions.

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  • [+] 27 points 8 months ago (1 child)
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    [–] 19 points 8 months ago (2 children)

    Dear America,

    You are disposable to them.

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    [–] 16 points 8 months ago (3 children)

    I guess we can add "war criminal" or straight up "murderer" to Trump's list of accomplishments. It's his administration.

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    [–] 14 points 8 months ago (1 child)

    Do you want the military to coup d'etat your ass? Because throwing your admiral under a bus boat will make many military leaders think...

    Eh, what am I saying? Please keep throwing them, we all want a coup at this point

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    [–] 11 points 8 months ago

    This is the whole point of "chain of command". The suckers are at the bottom. This admiral should be grateful that he's not dead in the ditch somewhere like his victims abroad and in the lower ranks.

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  • [–] 10 points 8 months ago (2 children)

    This demonstrates another reason why you shouldn't obey clearly illegal orders. If you kill someone on the illegal order of a superior and then they deny having given the order, guess who's gonna hang for it?

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    [–] 8 points 8 months ago (1 child)

    Kill. Them. All.

    And I don't mean boat.

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