...again. If it sounds familiar it's not just you. But they've been back on "undecided" shortly after. Let's hope this is the actual final decision.

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[+] 212 points 10 months ago* (last edited 1 month ago) (6 children)
  • [–] 126 points 10 months ago (2 children)

    We have to fight to get it denied every single time. They have to push it through only once. That's why they keep trying.

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  • [–] 20 points 10 months ago* (2 children)

    The Czechs got upset at EU-level efforts on gun control


    Czechia has permissive firearm law


    and passed an amendment to Czechia's constitution in 2021 guaranteeing certain firearm rights in Czechia. If the EU passed a directive that conflicted with it after that point without getting Czechs to approve an amendment to their constitution, Czechia would immediately begin violating the directive, which raises the stakes for people who wanted additional restrictions EU-wide.

    One imagines that the same tactic could be used in other areas; if one or more EU members prohibited restrictions on end-to-end encryption or the like, it'd create a legal bar that would first need to be undone to create a restriction EU-wide.

    That being said, if this sort of hardball tactic gets done too frequently, it'd make it really difficult to legislate at the EU level, because you'd have one state or another creating legal landmines all over.

    And any other individual member could still impose their own state-level restrictions on end-to-end encryption in such a scenario


    it'd only create an impediment to EU-wide restrictions.

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  • [–] 10 points 10 months ago (2 children)

    AFAIK there are some EU countries with privacy laws that won't allow chat control

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  • [–] 11 points 10 months ago* (1 child)

    I believe that the point of the Czechia situation was that it was a modification to the constitution; this will have a higher bar to change than would be the case for simply enacting an ordinary law. The idea was to entrench the status quo behind the bar for constitutional modification.

    kagis

    Looks like it's a 60% supermajority in each legislative house:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Constitution_of_the_Czech_Republic#Amending_the_Constitution

    With reference to the provision of the article 39, paragraph 4 of the Constitution, which states that "for the enactment of a constitutional act, 3/5 of all deputies must agree, and 3/5 of senators present", changing the constitution is a more difficult procedure than changing an ordinary statute, making it an entrenched constitution in the typology of constitutions. Despite the tradition of entrenched constitutions throughout Czech history, some voiced the opinion, during the preparation of the Constitution of the Czech Republic, that this one should be flexible.

    So to produce such an effect, if there are laws that would prohibit bans on end-to-end encryption, say, those laws would need to be constitutional law or similar in an EU member state where such a law has a higher-than-ordinary bar to change.

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  • [–] 2 points 10 months ago

    Forget other EU countries and laws, the German constitution guarantees private postal and remote communications for every citizen. It's also why Germany has historically never (that I know of) voted in favor of this bullshit: it violates the Briefgeheimnis (article 10 of the German constitution)

    If they hadn't rejected it the federal constitutional court in Karlsruhe would have sacked every single proposal on how to implement it, a process our current coalition is very familiar with from multiple attempts at trying to push preemptive collection of unencrypted data. They knew it wouldn't pass here anyway and likely just waited on an opportune time to profit off the inevitable denial. Although I'll give them that: some parts of the coalition were rather eager to meet the judges in Karlsruhe again anyway so it wasn't a 100% guaranteed rejection either.

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  • [–] 2 points 10 months ago*

    The EU is an economic-political union, not a socio-political union. Attempts to impose any sort of social law across all member nations feels like abuse of purpose, and also beside the point of having distinct member states in the first place.

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  • [–] 10 points 10 months ago (1 child)

    Classical Athens punished the people who proposed evil laws with fines or way worse. But our enlightened ”democracies” just let this happen without repercussions.

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  • [–] 3 points 10 months ago (1 child)

    In Athens they also ostracized people the majority didn't like from the polis, which is akin to what was once civil death.

    Ancient Greece (and even less Rome, where I was born) are not at all my example of an enlightened society.

    The question here is much simpler: Peter Hummelgård, Danish minister of justice and main author of the new proposal, is the man who got the Danish police a customized version of Palantir's Gotham to "fight immigrant gangs".

    This is a man who recently said "we must break with the totally erroneous perception that it is everyone's civil liberty to communicate on encrypted messaging services", obviously lapping the peanut butter off Thiel's genitals.

    Lobbying needs to be better regulated, but especially people like him and everyone who voted for his party should see our fingers pointing to their faces in real life and online.

    That's how you fight this, by publicly shaming people for not grasping the fundamentals of Rights Culture.

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  • [–] 2 points 10 months ago

    I’m not saying the Ancient Greeks were nice, but I think politicians, especially career politicians, should face drastic consequences for betraying the constitution of the countries they’re supposed to serve. And classical Athens was only a minority of rulers among people who didn’t have any rights, but their institutions had some aspects that were more robust than modern States that have no checks and balances and rely on “but no one would ever do that”.

    French police and municipalities have been using illegal surveillance (like Briefcam with the facial recognition enabled) for a long time and there are also no consequences, except for the fact the surveillance is being made increasingly legal because they “need” it.

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  • [–] 52 points 10 months ago (3 children)

    You see the German government would really prefer to stay in limbo in a lot of matters. Never decide anything. Never get anything done. Just wait as years pass by. That‘s how we lost world leading solar and robotic technologies to China and that‘s how conservatives run the country. You can expect a lot more back and forth in the coming years. On this matter and many others.

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  • [–] 18 points 10 months ago

    That‘s how we lost world leading solar

    "to altmeier sth.: to gleefully smash the thriving beginnings of a key industry of the future in your country at the behest of your wealthy donors and lobbyists, condemning your countrymen to watch from the sidelines while others take the cake for themselves."

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  • [–] 10 points 10 months ago (1 child)

    I wish. The last government did some good directional policy. For electric cars the German government doing nothing would be rather good. Same story for boilers.

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  • [–] 7 points 10 months ago (2 children)

    I like saying the last government was partially dysfunctional and still achieved more progress in 3 years than Merkel did in 16. christian democrats weren‘t part of it so that‘s probably why.

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  • [–] 2 points 10 months ago

    The Austrian ÖVP similar to the CDU/CSU, but the average austrian voter is self-sabotaging, and so those political sloths have been in the government since fucking WW2, and since 2000 the only thing they seem to do is fill their own pockets with only the thinnest veneer of legality.

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  • [–] 39 points 10 months ago (2 children)

    The proponents of Chat Control will use every trick in the book and will not give up easily. We will keep fighting until this proposal is defeated once and for all, and the privacy of our digital lives is secure for everyone.”

    How does this "once and for all" part work? Is there a clear, legal path towards preventing a similar proposal from being brought up again and again?

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  • [–] [S] 20 points 10 months ago (1 child)

    I guess ideally, we should put the right to encrypted communication into law or even into national constitutions. Unlikely to happen though.

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  • [–] 7 points 10 months ago (1 child)

    Finland already has it in constitution, though it's not about encryption but just right to privacy on private messaging. It was originally created to protect snail mail communication

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  • [–] 30 points 10 months ago (2 children)

    Italy went to undecided? when? my spam worked?

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  • [–] 27 points 10 months ago (1 child)

    As a Swede, I'm truly ashamed that we shared Ylva Johansson (driving politician for this shit) with the rest of you.

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  • [–] 24 points 10 months ago (1 child)

    I hope that this time it’s final and that they won’t just change their minds later.

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  • [–] 22 points 10 months ago (1 child)

    Facing a wave of calls and emails from the public...

    We did it, Lemmy?

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  • [–] 18 points 10 months ago

    Rare German W.

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  • [–] 13 points 10 months ago (1 child)

    Green being against+nwgative and red in favor+negative makes my brain ich in a way I can't scratch

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  • [–] 7 points 10 months ago

    thank fucking jesus for the krauts

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  • [–] 1 point 10 months ago*

    About France ...

    According to fightchatcontrol.eu a majority of our MEPs have expressed against the law : from far right to far left. ALL of the others are left as "unknown".

    I think it's fair to assume that France is against this law but that our current political mess prevents an official or coordinated response.

    I think this is a very important point : I see a lot of hate against our MEPs because fightchatcontrol.eu does not reflect their actual position on this issue.

    I'd advise to at least switch France to "undecided" and add a bit of context 🤷

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