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[–] 220 points 1 year ago* (20 children)

Need to petition Visa, MasterCard, PayPal, and American Express. I don't think trying to get Valve to reverse these recent changes will necessarily be effective, since they are being pressured by the payment processors and they definitely aren't going to risk not being able to effectively do business at all.

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  • [–] 117 points 1 year ago (7 children)

    Yeah, nah.

    Petition these people:

    https://www.collectiveshout.org/partners

    Collective Shout is sustained by a small number of Australian partners. These are not big groups, and would quickly pull funding under any sort of pressure.

    Collective Shout has a deep history with Christofascism and TERFs, so highlighting those angles is the way to go to get them pariahed. Once CS is out of the picture, we can work on undoing the damage they did.

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  • [+] 36 points 1 year ago (1 child)
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  • [+] 23 points 1 year ago* (last edited 11 months ago) (2 children)
  • [+] 16 points 1 year ago (4 children)
  • [–] 14 points 1 year ago (1 child)

    No, Valve has something that MasterVisa doesn't: being liked by people. If Valve stopped taking payments and yelled to the rooftops that MasterVisa was responsible, people from all walks of life will stop, listen, and then get their pitchfork. Through the platform of Steam, people browse through the things that make their days happier. If MasterVisa threatened to take that away, people will respond.

    Also, Europe and other blocs will be inclined to oppose MasterVisa. It would be a very public case of where America is dictating how the people of other lands must live. That would almost certainly make systems like Wero take off, due to sheer nationalist fervor. America is easily painted as the enemy if it allowed MasterVisa to continue abusing people on such a huge and international scale.

    Money isn't the only currency a person has, their opinions and agency are even more important, if they acted on using them. History books are filled to the brim where motivation is the greatest driving force of all.

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    [–] 94 points 1 year ago (1 child)

    The article is saying the petition is targeting steam, but the actual linked petition is addressing credit card companies. The text of the petition doesn't mention steam or valve. I don't know what the author of the article thinks is happening here, and they've explained it very badly.

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  • [–] 21 points 1 year ago (2 children)

    As of July 16, Steam's new guidelines state that game publishers should avoid releasing titles that may violate the terms and conditions of its payment processors. In other words, the storefront is asking creators to not only follow the platform's rules but also submit to potential oversight from companies like MasterCard, Visa, and PayPal.

    and from the petition

    MasterCard and Visa have increasingly used their financial control to pressure platforms into censoring legal fictional content

    Steam is enforcing MasterCard's, Visa's, and PayPal's policies. From Steam's Rules and Policies:

    What you shouldn’t publish on Steam: ... 15. Content that may violate the rules and standards set forth by Steam’s payment processors and related card networks and banks, or internet network providers. In particular, certain kinds of adult only content.

    Point number 15 was not there in a Snapshot from February on the wayback machine. If anything, the solution should just be to remove the payment method for those games (which would still hurt the creators substantially).

    There is a line that is confusing:

    In response to this censorship, some fans have launched a petition on Change.org urging Valve to revert its policies

    There may be petitions about reverting Valve's policy, but it's not the main petition against Visa and MasterCard (which is the one they linked).

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  • [–] 13 points 1 year ago* (2 children)

    So yeah, being mad at Valve is stupid, people need to be mad st MC and Visa and probably also PayPal.

    Being mad at Valve is shooting the messenger.

    Fortunately the petition is at least correctly aimed at the payment processors.

    But also...

    If MC and Visa won't budge on their positions, well, if Valve then makes an alt payment system for adult only games...

    MC and Visa go, oh, hey, you're violating our guidelines, we no longer support Valve/Steam, now no one can buy any game.

    This is a MAD situation, Valve would have to come up with a comprehensive payment processing system for everything, in secret, and then deploy it all at once.

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  • [–] 55 points 1 year ago (17 children)

    Make your own payment processor, Gaben. It's the way.

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    [–] 49 points 1 year ago* (1 child)

    I wish it was feasible to hve a large scale boycott of visa and mastercard. american express is already useless so it wouldn't help much to include it...

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  • [–] 29 points 1 year ago* (8 children)

    Or a decentralized alternative that isn't just used to scam people, that doesn't eat up insane amounts of electricity to process, and is as convenient as regular money.

    In reality, private corporations should not have control over money at all. Money is printed by the local government and should be controlled by the local government. Governments generally have better free speech protections than private corporations, which have none. Obviously, free speech protections are not universal, but countries can already ban content in other ways.

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  • [–] 46 points 1 year ago (1 child)
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    [–] 42 points 1 year ago

    But we have to oppose CollectiveShout as well, as in destroy them. They're way worse than I thought

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  • [–] 40 points 1 year ago* (12 children)

    Petitions like this are meaningless unless they come with a viable solution to the duopoly in payment processing that is Visa and Mastercard.

    It doesn't matter what Valve agrees with, if they want to survive as a business they have to ultimately do what the only 2 companies that handle the payment processing tells them to do.

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  • [–] 34 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (10 children)

    You're missing the point. This is not aimed at Valve, but at Visa and MasterCard. They are businesses. They primarily care about profit, not censorship. Especially when that pisses people off. They made the mistake of listening to the vocal minority of Collective Shout, so we have to let them know that. This isn't the 80's anymore, gaming is mainstream and there are far, far more gamers than puritanical Quakers that get the vapors at the sight of anything mature or complicated. And worst-case scenario, they are not the only payment processors, just the most convenient ones for customers and businesses. For now...

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    [–] 38 points 1 year ago (34 children)

    Everybody needs to also stop using Mastercard/Visa/Paypal.

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    [–] 25 points 1 year ago

    "Hi there, would you like to sign the petition?"

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  • [–] 24 points 1 year ago

    We knew in the aughts that this was going to be an issue when the charging companies defunded Wikileaks and Julian Assange¹ and were allowed to do so, defying public accommodations laws.

    1. Yes, Assange is a git and a Russian asset (or at least has been before) but he did serve as a whistleblower against evil shit done by Bush and Obama administrations and the general aristocratic corruption at play in US federal politics. As with Chelsea Manning, he embarrassed politicians using their positions of power inappropriately, revealing that the state was not serving the public. Incidentally, ACLU in its early years was funded by USSR to cause trouble against the US state (which it was doing anyway and still does), which makes it historically (and debatably) a Soviet asset. Strange bedfellows and all that.

    This is a tale that keeps repeating itself, and is why protections by the fourth, fifth, and sixth amendments of the Constitution of the United States have been carved out like a holiday turkey by the US Supreme Court. We found it easy to deny unreasonable search and seizure protections from major crimes suspects, only to find that every black citizen with a gram of cannabis now no longer has those protections.

    So it is with monopolies that decide they can be selective with their accommodations.

    If we can't pressure the transaction services to obey public accommodation rules since they have monopolistic power, it may be time to circumvent the issue, and support black market tactics ( Archie comic and bag of sawdust, $20, comes with free incest porn! )

    These days, when discussing the usenet alt.* heirarchy, its acronym ( Anarchists, Lunatics, and Terrorists ) is now considered a backronym, a joke. I was there, and it belied a serious point: The worst of us deserve free speech, as per Larry Flynt, knowing that Hustler magazine is legally published in all its (raunchy) glory means that whatever you're releasing to the public is safe from moral guardians and critics because they have worse stuff to shout at.

    But we're in an era of book burning, which means those would-be moral guardians are emboldened to try to reshape society in their image, in contrast to the principles of liberty and free thought. And soon ICE will expand its POI list to include liberals and wrongthinkers.

    It may be time for bricks in windows and direct action against high-ranking company officials, but such behaviors carry high risks of consequences. So be careful and thorough.

    In the meantime, write petitions of your grievances and sign those others have written. And remind them at this moment the public presumes petitioning them for redress of grievances will be acknowledged and acted upon. And if that turns out not to be the case, the outraged public will not simply disappear and keep to its place.

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  • [–] 22 points 1 year ago* (1 child)

    IANAL - Can credit card companies coordinate like this? This seems like price fixing but the other way around. Like one company wouldn't do this alone cause it would drive customers away so they agree to do it together. Does that coordinated monopolistic behavior have president?

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  • [–] 17 points 1 year ago (1 child)
  • [–] 15 points 1 year ago

    So, I wanted to see if I could find a list of games that were removed. I found this https://steam-tracker.com/ which is not specific to this event, but useful to keep track.

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