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[–] 21 points 3 years ago* (last edited 3 years ago)

I really wish there was some ethical way of farming dairy cows, but have come to the conclusion that it just isn't with current methods and knowledge. I have some land and love cows so considered getting one or two for hobby-farming and just so I could have my own "cruelty free" dairy. Here are some things to consider about dairy farming:

  • Only female cows produce milk.
  • Female cows only produce milk for a brief period of time after giving birth.
  • Every single cow requires at least one acre of grazing.
  • You only need one bull on a dairy farm to provide sperm.
  • Baby calves want to be near their mothers and will drink their milk.

The only way to fit these pieces together in any economical way is to: (a) forcefully impregnate cows as often as possible, (b) limit the amount of time calves can be with their mothers so they don't drink all the milk, and (c) slaughter male calves for veal. This is cruel no matter how you slice it. If you are born a cow you are taken away from your mother and given food you don't like and isn't as good for you as the milk that was produced specifically for you. If you are unlucky enough to be a female cow you will spend the next several years of your life being forcefully impregnated and having your own children taken away from you every year. If you are a male cow you'll only know life on earth for a short while before being put out of your misery. In the end, regardless of gender or age, you'll be sent into a long line of other confused and panicked cows to be slaughtered for your meat and organs at a factory staffed by strangers in scary masks you've never seen before with the smell of death and terror all around you. There is no such thing as ethical dairy and any company proclaiming otherwise is not being honest with you or themselves.

Edit: I should say that there are better ways of doing most of the steps in dairy farming that aren't as cruel. But unless consumers are okay paying something along the lines of $20 for a gallon of milk, capitalism will never permit those practices to actually happen.

Also wanted to say that I'm not necessarily against animal products. I have chickens. They are as happy as can be and give us delicious eggs every day. I feed them well and treat them like family and they don't mind me taking their eggs. I really don't see an issue with this exchange because there is no cruelty and both parties benefit. There are numerous examples of this with animals and animal products. However, I believe that dairy is one of those cases where there isn't really an ethical solution. Even if you take the unnecessary cruelty out of the process, you are still left with at least a little cruelty. Where do you draw the line?

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  • [–] 13 points 3 years ago (4 children)

    No, because a cow has to be impregnated and their baby is taken away (and either killed (male) or is also going to be a milk cow (female)) just for you having some pleasure.

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  • [–] 8 points 3 years ago (1 child)

    I get that, which is why I can't wait for lab-grown meat to take off so that I can finally eat the things I enjoy guilt-free. I'll be among the first to buy it the moment it's at the grocery store. Hopefully lab-grown cheese comes next. Vegan "cheez" is awful.

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  • [–] 2 points 3 years ago (11 children)

    I agree but vegan cheese/milk just doesn't cut it. I'm vegetarian but until they manage to emulate the taste better I make a concession for cheese.

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  • [–] 5 points 3 years ago (1 child)

    You don't really miss it after a few months. And maybe it's stockholme syndrome but lately when I get something with vegan "cheese" on it, it hasn't been awful. Last weekend I got a Daiya pizza thinking it was gonna be complete trash and it wasn't horrible actually.

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  • [–] 4 points 3 years ago (4 children)

    I've heard the best way to to replace cheese (as a vegan or someone going non-diary) is to just not. The vegan cheese substitutes don't taste good if you are used to dairy and cheese in general doesn't really provide much nutrition

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  • [–] 3 points 3 years ago (1 child)

    This is actually the route I've been inching towards. I've started getting my veggie burgers with just veggies and will make a slaw for my tacos and I've been missing it less and less. I'm mostly gonna treat it as part of my "vegan junk food" list hopefully going forward.

    But like I'll still use nooch for like my pesto and such lol. But my pesto recipe is one of those things where you can't even really tell it's vegan imo.

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  • [–] 2 points 3 years ago (1 child)

    What's the recipe, if you don't mind sharing? I haven't really tried pesto many times, and when I did they didn't turn out well

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  • [–] 2 points 3 years ago (1 child)

    I say "my recipe" but I got it from here: https://www.forkintheroad.co/vegan-spinach-pesto/#recipe

    I use sunflower seeds instead of pine nuts because I'm not a millionaire. I have made it with a blend of spinach and basil before as well. Spinach is cheaper unless you grow basil or something.

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  • [–] 2 points 3 years ago (1 child)

    Agree. Although a slice of avocado will really be a satisfying alternative to cheese in many situations. Hits that fatty and creamy note. Just no macaroni & guacamole please.

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    [–] 9 points 3 years ago

    Loved cheese but not having it any more. Not my milk not my cheese. My pleasure can’t come at the expense of another sentient, innocent being, especially not if that involves forced impregnation, being caged up, and having your children be taken almost right away who then often end up being killed because there’s no use.

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  • [–] 8 points 3 years ago*

    Yes.

    what is your reason for saying so?

    I don't understand this part of the question :P

    The answer is yes because the question is cheese..

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  • [–] 8 points 3 years ago (2 children)

    No to cheese made from bovine mammary secretions, because I try not to participate in animal exploitation anymore. Yes to plant based cheese, because it's delicious.

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    [–] 7 points 3 years ago

    Cheese is one of the best parts of being alive.

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  • [–] 7 points 3 years ago (4 children)

    My brain says yes but my bowels say no.

    Brain still wins every time. I can handle some discomfort in the future for a mouth full of bliss right now.

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    [–] 6 points 3 years ago (2 children)
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    [–] 6 points 3 years ago

    Yes, because I like it.

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  • [–] 5 points 3 years ago (1 child)
  • [–] 4 points 3 years ago

    I love cheese, but it is a rather odd food. Something squirted from a cow that is left sitting around and bacteria grows in it…. great.

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  • [–] 4 points 3 years ago

    I don't need cheese, I have nooch!

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  • [–] 4 points 3 years ago

    Yes, because it tastes good.

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  • [–] 3 points 3 years ago

    i love cheese. i eat parmesan triangles sometimes, rind included

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  • [–] 3 points 3 years ago

    Absolutely yes. A food that can elevate a dish or be great on its own. More cheese please.

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  • [–] 3 points 3 years ago

    Because pecorino, parmigiano e gorgonzola are delicious.

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  • [–] 3 points 3 years ago

    No. I'm having a lemonade.

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  • [–] 3 points 3 years ago (2 children)

    Yes, I use jalapeΓ±o cream cheese daily for my egg sandwich.

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    [–] 3 points 3 years ago

    Yes.

    I love cheese.

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  • [–] 2 points 3 years ago* (1 child)

    Yes, because cheese is delicious. Cheese can go with meat, pasta, bread, fruit, vegetables, wine, beer, fried foods, foods with delicate flavors, and so much more. There's such a large variety of cheeses that it's practically its own food group.

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    [–] 2 points 3 years ago (1 child)

    I love cheese, but it's safe to say that cheese doesn't love me. https://youtu.be/bVKCHZqax84

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  • [–] 2 points 3 years ago
    [–] 2 points 3 years ago

    I don’t think I would want to live in a world without cheese.

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