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[–] 116 points 2 years ago (3 children)

Probably worth noting, this article is about UK energy meters. Also, smart meters are wildly different all over the world.

Where I live, the meters have a proprietary wireless receiver, with its own frequency, that is owned and operated by the power company.

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  • [–] 26 points 2 years ago* (1 child)

    It's going to vary, even within counties. A lot of US utility companies are having the same issue, and there are companies that make and sell 3G to 4G adapters for larger coverage areas. For example, microcell that rebroadcasts/converts the 3G signals into a 4G signal for the local towers. Other areas are swapping out 3G for 4G or Lorawan style meters.

    And I'm sure even more are just going to arbitrarily create billable usage figures because they outsourced their IT to India, and then outsourced the India team to Pakistan or the Philippines, and then fired them because the CEO's son is really good with computers. Unfortunately, he's just now reading my comment and going "oh...fuck".

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  • [–] 5 points 2 years ago (1 child)

    How would those microcells be legal? It's not just that 3G or whatever gets shut down, the frequencies are usually reallocated to something else so you can't legally operate a 3G network on those frequencies anymore.

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  • [–] 6 points 2 years ago

    It would depend how regulations are written. It's perfectly conceivable that these can be allowed to operate using a very low power level that wouldn't interfere with the larger network, especially if the use case is for things like substations that are already isolated.

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  • [–] 9 points 2 years ago

    Around here (Portugal) I believe that smart meters send their info over the electrical wire itself (as they had to install repeater/transponder stations at the network transformers and the bandwidth needed for something like this is ridiculously small).

    Certainly it would be an upside of being behind most of the rest of Europe in most things - when finally something gets installed in the infrastructure of one of the local politically connected (read: not really competing on superior quality or efficiency) utilities, the technology is already more mature.

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  • [–] 4 points 2 years ago (2 children)
  • [–] 6 points 2 years ago

    It's common all over Europe. It's short range wireless btw, a person from the company has to walk the building halls to collect the data from the meters for example, or come near the house. They use this on all types of meters — power, gas, water.

    They still have to do a visual check once in a while because some people are shifty fuckers and can't be trusted. 😄

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  • [+] 74 points 2 years ago (4 children)
  • [–] 23 points 2 years ago (1 child)

    I thought they weren't turning off 2G. What's the benefit? Other than forcing it sooner? Most places that used 2G still get exceptional coverage from it.

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  • [–] 42 points 2 years ago (3 children)

    Coverage is from frequency, not generation of signal encoding.

    The benefit is you can reuse the frequency bands for something better, like 5G. That's what they did in my country, among others. So, now we get 5G on 3 different frequency ranges. High speed and long range.

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  • [–] 21 points 2 years ago (2 children)

    I was under the impression that higher bandwidth wireless networks required higher frequency bands for that data. Like a specific frequency should have a theoretical maximum data transfer rate and the only way to get around that would be some kind of fancy compression algorithms.

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  • [–] 8 points 2 years ago

    That is correct.

    However the lowest GSM frequency was 300Mhz, so there is still quite a lot of bandwidth there (if I'm not mistaken to a theoretical maximum of 600Mbit/s for a 2 level signal, though in practice quite a lot less as this are radio-waves rather than signals in circuit lines, so encoding schemes have to be disgned for a lot more noise and other problems).

    Anyways, the point being that the right encoding scheme can extract some Mbit/s from even the 300Mhz band.

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  • [–] 6 points 2 years ago

    Frequency isn't that relevant, it's frequency bandwidth. The bit rate is n/T with n being bits per symbol and T symbol duration which itself is 1/B with B being the frequency bandwidth. You want to increase the bit rate you can either increase the number of bits per symbol or increase the frequency bandwith. 5G allows bandwiths up to 400MHz per channel, there isn't enough space in the lower frequency ranges for such large bandwidths, so you go up.

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  • [–] 14 points 2 years ago (1 child)

    I've done this as a project to go from 3G to LTE for a network of a few hundred devices.

    3G and LTE (4G) used almost identical AT commands. The motherboards were build so the modems were swappable. It wasn't too bad. I'm told the field techs had to drive 5 hours across the Australian outback to access some of them.

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  • [–] 11 points 2 years ago (1 child)

    I work on the national electrical grid and there are a bunch of remote sensors in all of the substations. Some of them are what essentially amount to remotely controlled circuit breakers. I think they trip automatically if they lose connection because they assume something bad has happened. So that'll be fun.

    I work on the software side of things I'm not an electrical engineer so I have no idea if they're actually changing them over yet but they're still thousands of them on the network at the moment.

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  • [–] 14 points 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago) (1 child)

    I work for the grid too and we also have these. Usually only for bigger substations to transmit measurements and switching states, maybe a bit of telemetry like a tripped fuse.

    I hope for dear god that you are remembering wrong and none of them trigger when loosing connection. Whoever thought of that should be immediately fired.

    A loss of connection from a single device should never trip a circuit breaker (no idea how the bigger equivalent is called in english), especially if its connected wireless.

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  • [–] 8 points 2 years ago

    The software that controls them is absolutely terrible so I wouldn't be surprised if that is how they work.

    But thinking about it it does seem really stupid for no reason so maybe what it is is the concern that if they do trip after 2G is turned off there's no way for us to know that.

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  • [–] 6 points 2 years ago (1 child)

    I was wondering how this would affect car manufacturers and their TCU's or what have you. Curious to know if cars will be bricked when this is obsolete and they turn off 2G and 3G.

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  • [–] 11 points 2 years ago (1 child)

    My 2013 Focus Sync 2 software that does system checks shit down like 6 years ago and I periodically get a message that I need to do a diagnostic check and send it in to Ford, but then it errors out.

    It’s annoying as fuck.

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  • [–] 6 points 2 years ago* (1 child)

    Is it one of the ones where you can update the software from a USB stick and software off the internet or does it have to do with looking for a software update then timing out because the network isn't there?

    I was wondering my previous question because I know Mozilla just put out a report on how if you own a newer car your automaker is tracking you via the modems built into the cars.

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  • [–] 37 points 2 years ago (10 children)

    oh our water company mentioned they were gonna come this week and replace the meter. I guess this is what thats about lol

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    [–] 19 points 2 years ago*

    Yep. I've been going around converting burglar and fire alarms to 4/5G and trashing the 3G radios. If you haven't upgraded, your alarm won't alert your monitoring company if that's the sole path.

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  • [–] 18 points 2 years ago (9 children)

    That's why they should never switch off 2G.

    All the other G's are unimportant.

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    [–] 14 points 2 years ago

    Woot, free parking

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  • [–] 12 points 2 years ago (1 child)

    Is it a swap of the 2G/3G module? Or is it a full replacement of the meter?

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  • [–] 12 points 2 years ago (2 children)

    I'll be fucked if I'm getting a smart meter anyway, I'll stick with nice normal top-up prepay meters thank you kindly.

    I don't trust British Gas as far as I can throw em.

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  • [–] 17 points 2 years ago (3 children)

    Pre.. pay? At your own house?

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  • [–] 36 points 2 years ago (3 children)

    It's relatively new and is a lovely way for utilities companies to side step the rules on cutting people off. They advertise it as an option for people so they have more control over their spending when in reality it has a higher unit charge and is targeted at people who are likely to be financially struggling or close to it.

    So what happens is it can just shut off when you haven't paid yet. I work in utilities and I have dealt with literally thousands of homes and these are always in impoverished and working class areas where if the people were to be on a standard policy they would have protections against cut off due to non payment.

    This isn't meant as any disrespect to the guy above, I know two sentences about him and that all, just my view of this bullshit.

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  • [–] 11 points 2 years ago (1 child)

    In some places, you pay for utilities before using them, and they shut you fuck off right in the middle of the month if you've used it up. :/

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