As an American who grew up at a religious school in the 90s, we absolutely did not (or at least I never had access to one). Obviously places like Kora or Tibet have been effected in their history (I still want to read your answers 😁), but what about, for example, New Zealand? Or Sierra Leonne? Or Portugal? I'm just curious to see how pervasive the new Global Language already is by this point.

BonusQuestion: Is it mostly following their Belt-and-Road Initiative? Wouldn't that be something?

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[–] 29 points 1 year ago (2 children)

... how pervasive the new Global Language already is ...

I'm going to challenge you on this point. First of all, what's Chinese? I'm guessing you refer to Putonghua aka Mandarin, the erstwhile variant of Beijingnese prescribed for official use within the PRC by their political leadership.

And second, how "global" is it? It's useful primarily in one contiguous area of the world. Even there a large chunk of people kind of learn it as a first semi-foreign language because they speak something different at home. Cantonese, Shanghainese, or a language that cannot be written in Chinese characters.

Which brings me to my third point: a language that requires study of a script this idiosyncratic will not rise to a global language. Vietnam has gotten rid of hanzi, Korean pretty much as well. Ironically, the north has already completely abandoned it. By comparison, the Latin alphabet was spread by cavalry and cannon boat into all parts of the world for centuries. It spread so far that it is now used to teach pinyin to PRC schoolchildren. And while it is not without its own problems, the simplicity and adaptability of this phonetic alphabet to any language makes it far more useful than Chinese characters. And I'm not shitting on the cultural value of them: that's unimpeachable. It's just too complicated.

The alphabet spread with English, Spanish, French, and Portuguese all over the world. I'm not saying that's a good thing but it's already happened. Mandarin cannot have a similar success today unless the PRC starts colonizing at gunpoint fast.

Most Chinese as a foreign language speakers outside the PRC learned it for economic reasons. Economic ties have become somewhat dicey. If anything I suspect interest in learning Mandarin to wane.

There is also the tonal aspect. Any atonal-native language learner is going to have a much harder time than trying to remember the non-sensical English orthography.

More people on this planet learn English as their first and possibly only foreign language - if they learn one at all. The forum you asked this question on is in English. The internet cements the use of the alphabet.

I'm in Japan where foreign language education is notoriously sub-par overall. English is the first foreign language. Some private high schools offer Mandarin as an optional, I haven't seen anything substantial in state-run schools. At college level, most people chose between French and German as a second foreign language. Like we're still in the Meiji Era. I'm a big proponent that they abandon this tradition in favor of Russian, Korean, and Mandarin. It always helps to learn the language of your neighbors. Language schools advertize k-pop-trendy Korean more.

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  • [–] 5 points 1 year ago (4 children)

    First of all, what's Chinese?

    It is the mistake that the AI made that generated this manipulative troll post.

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  • [–] 2 points 1 year ago (2 children)

    You're grilling OP on something they already said they have little experience with. OP is asking questions to learn, and the grilling is detrimental to that.

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  • [–] 18 points 1 year ago (2 children)

    I'm criticizing the use of the phrase "new global language." And I've laid out my reasons why I think that's wrong. I didn't think I was grilling OP, just the perception of Mandarin being the new global language. So I'm a little taken aback that you read it that way; that wasn't my intention.

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  • [–] 1 point 1 year ago (1 child)

    I mean, when you addressed what is frankly a minor, tangential part of the OP with an essay, it does come across as heavy-handed, even if that isn’t what you meant by it

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  • [–] 3 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

    frankly a minor, tangential part of the OP

    No, it wasn't

    with an essay

    Hyperbole

    it does come across as heavy-handed

    What does that even mean?
    "I took your question seriously and attempt a serious answer" == "heavy-handed"?
    "I don't agree with all your points" == "heavy-handed"?
    Seriously, what does "heavy-handed" even mean here? It seems to imply aggression?

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  • [–] [S] 1 point 1 year ago

    As OP, I have no problem with your critiques. And I wasn't saying I think it will be like that at any point during OUR lifetimes. Like the post said, I was just curious because in my childhood (30 years ago), I knew more about the solar system than I did about China Β―\_(ツ)_/Β―

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  • [–] 22 points 1 year ago (1 child)

    Chinese will never be the official global language and I'll give you 8,105 simplified reasons why...

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  • [–] [S] 1 point 1 year ago (1 child)
  • [–] 14 points 1 year ago* (3 children)

    Umm, gonna answer as an American, for clarity: many schools across the US have language classes of all sorts. Every niece/nephew I know across multiple states could study French, Spanish, Latin, Chinese, Italian, etc, etc. Chinese is one of many (typically Mandarin).

    It's very common in US public schools, and has increased significantly over the last 50 years.

    Chinese wasn't available in my school decades ago, but was in nearby schools.

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  • [–] 2 points 1 year ago

    My school offered (from most popular to least popular):

    1. Spanish
    2. French
    3. Chinese (I think Mandarin)
    4. German

    I think my child’s high school offers the same, although I don’t know the relative popularities. I’m confident Spanish is still most popular, and judging by the number of posters around the school from German classes trying to convince kids to take German, I’m thinking German is still not very popular.

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  • [–] 11 points 1 year ago (3 children)

    Chinese is not a global language. And it's not likely to be in the future. It's not the raw number of speakers what makes a global language but the number of non-native speakers.

    That being said.

    In my country, Spain, it is not taught at any level as mandatory, and not even as an option. Of you want to study chinese you have to go to do as an extracurricular thing.

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    [–] 8 points 1 year ago (1 child)

    Of course plenty of American schools offer Chinese language courses. It's odd that you assumed with total confidence that the opposite was true.

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  • [–] 7 points 1 year ago (1 child)

    It's a good question and I'm not dismissing you! But

    As an American who grew up at a religious school in the 90s, we absolutely did not

    that in itself is such an American thing to say. First the unspoken assumption that everybody understands what you mean by "religious". And if I looked around here where I live I'm sure I could find a christian (which btw does not mean the same as in the US) school that teaches chinese. And probably even the leaders of such schools have never considered to separate languages into "christian" and "non-christian".

    The second half of your question seems a bit paranoid. Are you implying that every Chinese language class is secretly funded by the PRC? Are you afraid that your country might switch to Chinese at some point? Do you have a problem with English not being the No. 1 langauage, globally? I'm no friend of China's political system, but this seems excessive.

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  • [–] [S] 2 points 1 year ago (1 child)

    Valid points, I appreciate that πŸ™ Most of your question can be answered by the fact that I was high when I wrote the post and am just tired of using my filter in real life and I feel safe here on Lemmy.

    And honestly, my specific Elementary school was very... unique. Looked them up a few months ago and they're a few degrees of separation from Reformed Calvinists. Like, more than half of the faculty come from 2 small Evangelical universities in the middle of the Great Plains. They taught some usual stuff like math and spelling, but then there was also lots of time dedicated to studying the Bible, learned two different songs to memorize the order of the books, we had a "Bring your Priest to School Day," yeah it was just a liiiiiiitle off.

    I see your point in my (unintentional) divide into "christian/religios vs chinese" and nowadays I would never try to imply anything resembling that. Now that you mention it though, I do remember one day in 1st(?) grade where they had all the students come and listen to a sermon by a guest preacher (this was fairly common) and somehow the topic of 'Chinese water torture' came up? (I don't remember anything more specific than that, I was very young, but I think a connection was made that shouldn't have been)

    As for the paranoia (besides the above annecdote), that was also unintentional. I wish I understood more about non-American culture and as an avid lover of history, I know a lot of times influence is not merely who won which battle and was curious to see if anyone else had more tangible examples than just theories or video game-logic.

    Overall, the whole point of this was just to talk to somebody so thank you for that πŸ₯°

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  • [–] 2 points 1 year ago* (1 child)

    Damn, I like your reply.

    Most of your question can be answered by the fact that I was high when I wrote the post and am just tired of using my filter in real life and I feel safe here on Lemmy.

    And that's valid; but it might reveal things about your sub/halfconscious that other people will point out to you, and will mistake for conviction. But if you're OK with that...

    And thanks for yet another insight into the certainly not boring but terrifying world of the US education "system".

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  • [–] [S] 2 points 1 year ago

    Damn, I like your reply

    Gee, thanks buddy 😁 As for the subconsciousness peeking through and being taken as conviction... yeah, there are pris and cons to either method. Overall though, to me, life is too short to worry about it too much. I hope you have a fantastic rest of your week πŸ™‚

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  • [–] 5 points 1 year ago

    High school requires at least a second language class to graduate, I believe. Most people take French as it's the "default" one that all schools offer, but my school also had Spanish, Mandarin, and Japanese, iirc. But that was decades ago.

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  • [–] 5 points 1 year ago (1 child)

    In Australia, my high school offers German and Chinese mandatory in y7-8 but optional afterwards.

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  • [–] 5 points 1 year ago (1 child)

    The French education system require to study two foreign language among a long list, so why most people take English + German/Spanish/Italian some people take rare language like Chinese.

    To my understanding rare and hard language like Chinese (or Russian) are also a way to be admitted to a better school/class than your local school, so it's often used by rich kids who want to bypass their local public school and be affected to a good school/class

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  • [–] [S] 1 point 1 year ago

    Danke schΓΆn. This was basically the 'format' of answers I was expecting. I believe some language options existed earlier than this for my situation, but it was never a requirement until high school, and even then, a lot of students (around me/from my perspective) didn't care about it all that much

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  • [–] 4 points 1 year ago

    My school (UK, 1980s) offered Mandarin as an extracurricular course. I signed up, showed up... and was the only student. One-on-one classes the rest of the year :)

    (Just don't try grilling me in Mandarin now, though.)

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  • [–] 4 points 1 year ago

    the new Global Language

    This is not decided yet.

    Russian is still a candidate. English still a possibility despite one large English-speaking country giving up all it's meaning.

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  • There was a show on Nick Jr that taught me how to count to three in Chinese while my kids had snack time.

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  • [–] 2 points 1 year ago (1 child)

    Not in my school anyway. The languages taught here in Austria vary by school AFAIK, in my school everyone had to learn English, then depending on which branch we selected we could learn French, Italian, Spanish and/or Latin (but there was no path to combine French with Italian).

    I looked it up and while it is possible for schools to choose other languages than these, Chinese doesn't seem to be among them, so that could not be made a mandatory subject, probably could be taught as a non-graded elective though.

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  • [–] [S] 1 point 1 year ago

    Yeah, a lot of these comments seem to think I meant "Mandarin isn't taught anywhere in the US" when really my point was that the particular schools I attended did not have it available. But that's on me as OP. Thanks for your input 😁

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  • [–] 2 points 1 year ago (1 child)

    My high school in a semi rural part of the Southern US had a Chinese language class that you could choose to take for your foreign language credit back in the early 2010s. I think it's a false premise to say that it's not taught in the US, most kids just choose to take easier languages like German, French, or Spanish

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    [–] 2 points 1 year ago (1 child)

    Singapore - Mother Tongue is a compulsory subject to take up until Uni. Being classified as Chinese racially, I had to take Mandarin during my formative years - but I'm still not good at it lol

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  • [–] 2 points 1 year ago (1 child)

    Ireland. I doubt any schools offer it as a curricular, but it is an exam subject. Generally the only people sitting the exam are Chinese native speakers who moved here.

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  • [–] 2 points 1 year ago* (2 children)

    Yes my public high school had it as a language back in the late 1980s/early 90s. This would be New Jersey, USA.

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    [–] 2 points 1 year ago (3 children)

    yes, in France, in business schools, they definitely teach Chinese, as a choice, not mandatory.

    I believe it is also possible to take Chinese classes during high school , again as a "3rd language option", after English and /Spanish / German

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