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[–] 102 points 1 year ago* (2 children)

Wouldn't this be a good thing for the fresh water supply in the US if the US stopped exporting alfalfa.

Sure, I didn't read this article, so I'm just going off all the previous years of articles about how much fresh water this is using. And I've never researched the downstream effects of cattle in the middle east becoming more expensive.

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  • [–] 97 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (12 children)

    Answer:

    • The water-intensive farming is absolutely fucking the ecology of the American southwest in a way that's effectively irreversible on human timescales.
    • The money being generated by this farming is going to a select few completely undeserving, morally bankrupt people who know the damage they're doing and are hoarding swathes of land and water rights they were given for effectively nothing generations ago.
    • This alfalfa is then shipped internationally to Saudi Arabia literally halfway across the world, generating greenhouse gas emissions and other forms of pollution.
    • This alfalfa is then used to grow cattle, meaning that value is being extracted from the US – at a meager cost compared to the externalities we bear – and given to the theocratic shithole whose entire economy is based on destroying the planet that is Saudi Arabia.
    • Edit: the cows produce a bunch of methane over their lifetime.
    • The cows are then brutally murdered for food despite extensive evidence that cows can feel pain and do feel emotions like fear.
    • This cow meat is then fed to people despite the fact that 1) red meat is a class 2a carcinogen (and frankly in light of evidence that vegetarian and vegan diets reduce risks of certain cancers by double-digit percentages, we're all just waiting until it's confirmed rather than heavily suspected as a carcinogen), 2) it substantially increases the risk of heart disease, and 3) it elevates the risk for diabetes when compared to plant-based foods which are cheaper and less resource-intensive to create.

    It's a benefit to essentially everyone if alfalfa farming becomes less profitable. The entire chain from water to cow meat is unjust, cruel, and otherwise fucking terrible.

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  • [–] 5 points 1 year ago

    Just wanted to say I've had you marked with notes before as someone really good with your research, but each time I see your longer answers I make sure to take the time to read it. Really appreciate the knowledge transfer on a lot of your posts, please don't stop!

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  • [–] 5 points 1 year ago (2 children)

    RFK jr has plans to fix the fresh water supply situation.

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  • [–] 73 points 1 year ago

    Ehh.. I have little sympathy for these farmers who switched from growing food crops (thus contributing to the rise in food prices) to generally very water-intensive cash crops for export and kept getting subsidies meant to ensure a ready supply of food for the populace. This situation was plenty fucked long before Trump put his dick in it, it should not be surprising that he'd make it worse.

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  • [–] 59 points 1 year ago (1 child)

    Super water users now angry their right wing fuckers no longer care specifically about them

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  • [–] 57 points 1 year ago

    Schulz says he voted for President Donald Trump and believes in the goals of his tariff plan, to bring manufacturing back to the U.S. and expand exporter access to foreign markets.

    That's a shame. ANYWAY . . .

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  • [–] 55 points 1 year ago* (3 children)

    How nice, alfalfa should not be farmed especially at this scale

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  • [–] 40 points 1 year ago* (1 child)

    Alfalfa is a great crop. It has deep roots which store carbon in the soil, it is drought tolerant, it's high yielding and it's nitrogen fixating meaning it improves the soil quality and does not require nitrogen fertilizer which normally is a huge carbon footprint. Overall fantastic crop if you need fodder for ruminant animals. The big problem is farming it on an absurd scale in the middle of the damn desert. Alfalfa does not require irrigation in regions with ample rainfall.

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  • [–] 12 points 1 year ago (2 children)

    How can alfalfa, which is known to be among of the most water-intensive crops be drought-resistant?

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  • [–] 20 points 1 year ago* (1 child)

    Drought resistance refers to whether the plant can survive droughts. it does not necessarily refer to the plants yielding well under drought. However if the plant is still yielding, it could even become more profitable as other plants stop yielding. The deep roots of the plant help it under drought, as the Soil drys top to bottom. Plants that have deeper roots maintain access to water, while the top is already dried out.

    To try a poor metaphor: Someone who is 2m tall but short-sighted will still see better in a crowd than someone who is 1.60m but has the best eyes in the world.

    https://www.canr.msu.edu/news/managing_alfalfa_during_drought

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  • [–] 3 points 1 year ago

    Alfalfa is drought tolerant compared to other forage legumes like clover. This means that during drought the alfalfa will fare better and also yield better than clover or a grass like Timothy or blue grass. However as you can see pasture is also on that list you linked. Fodder crops are harvested for their entire biomass above ground and the amount of biomass is very large. It's a very productive crop and makes a lot of fodder and this fodder is mostly water. Therefore it takes a lot of water to grow. The water required is not extreme in any way however and where I live alfalfa is a rainfed crop that only very rarely has any water deficiency symptoms. The extreme amounts of water applied to alfalfa in the south east of the USA is only because of the desert climate there. Growing beans, corn or potatoes there also requires insane amounts of water. If potatoes were chiefly grown in the desert southeast you bet you would see news articles going around about how terrible potatoes are. In the end it's only a matter of matching the right crop to the right climate. Even the most water hungry crop on earth will not require irrigation in the most rainy place on earth.

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  • [–] 13 points 1 year ago

    And not at all in the middle of the Sonoran desert, in and around a city of 5 million people, where water is a limited resource.

    Phoenix has plenty of water to suit the population if it’s used wisely. Alfalfa is not a wise use of water.

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  • [–] 45 points 1 year ago (4 children)

    “In the long run…” so he's still onboard. Let him ride the failure train to financial ruin. Maybe then he'll learn.

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  • [–] 3 points 1 year ago

    Schulz says he voted for President Donald Trump and believes in the goals of his tariff plan, to bring manufacturing back to the U.S. and expand exporter access to foreign markets.

    “In the long run I think it will be a good thing," He said.

    Dude's face has been eaten and he's still supporting the leopards.

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    [–] 35 points 1 year ago (1 child)

    Make sure to keep voting for the GOP farmer bob.

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  • [–] 8 points 1 year ago (1 child)

    He will, because HitlerPig will bail him out.

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  • [–] 10 points 1 year ago (1 child)

    I honestly don't think they will get help this time. JD Vance is invested in AcreTrader and what's a better way to buy thousand's of acres for pennies on the dollar than to bankrupt farmers? And at the end of the day, I really don't think they deserve a bailout.

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  • [–] 3 points 1 year ago (1 child)

    I agree with you 100%, but HitlerPig did bailouts the last time around, and it kept the famrers on his side, so he'll do it again. Nothing like paying people off to keep their loyalty. In fact, it worked so well last time, that he may be engineering the same scenario this time, just so he can pay them off again, and remind them of it before the next election.

    Oh, who am I kidding? There won't be another election.

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  • [–] 26 points 1 year ago (2 children)
  • [–] 22 points 1 year ago

    That's the point. Trump wants you hopeless so you'll sell your land to his billionaire buddies.

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  • [–] 15 points 1 year ago

    Oh no! Not the Trump supporting farmers!

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  • [–] 13 points 1 year ago

    Have the day you voted for.

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  • [–] 11 points 1 year ago (3 children)

    Good. Alfalfa is right up there with almonds as one of the most wasteful crops in existence.

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    [–] 9 points 1 year ago (1 child)

    If I recall, moat of it went to Saudi Arabia?

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  • [–] 4 points 1 year ago* (2 children)

    Not quite, well at least not for the US as a whole, but could be different for California/Arizona specifically if anyone has the numbers?

    As for US, China exports were still about the same as next two countries combined, so by far the largest market. Good riddance anyway. Source: https://hayandforage.com/article-5229-Hay-exports-flatlined-in-2024.html

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  • [–] 8 points 1 year ago

    Because this time, the Con in charge will surely help you out. Surely this time. Surely.

    Put on your clown noses, you dipshits. You will keep voting for them despite their obvious track record for being BAD FOR THE FUCKING ECONOMY.

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  • [–] 6 points 1 year ago (1 child)

    Trump did that the first time. How could you not think, after him campaigning on tariffs, that he wouldn't do it again? This is just your own fault for voting for him...again.

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  • [–] 4 points 1 year ago

    You know how they overproduced purple hearts in anticipation of an invasion of mainland Japan that never happened? Imagine if that happened and yet they still fell short on numbers, except instead of casualties of war it's idiots getting fucked by Trump and instead of purple hearts it's "fell for it again" awards. That's where we're at.

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  • [–] 6 points 1 year ago*

    Good thing Trump saved you from all the awful foreigners dragging America down tho right?

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  • [+] 5 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)
    [removed by mod]
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  • [–] 5 points 1 year ago

    Crushed alfalfa anyone? Anyone?

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