I think a little clarification is needed. No. I don't actually think everyone there is insane. I don't care about the bans so stop trying to use that. HB enthusiasts coming here and trying to call me out achieves nothing besides proving my point

Edit: Feel free to keep trying to brigade me. It's not going to scare me to take this down

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[+] -43 points 2 years ago (3 children)

antifa

Yeah, the famous antifa-tankers. Every single person I've ever seen that identifies as antifa was a tanker. Other people run away from that label.

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  • [+] 43 points 2 years ago* (last edited 1 month ago) (3 children)
  • [–] 0 points 2 years ago* (2 children)

    Maybe you can clear this up then:

    Why does everyone there unequivocally, wholeheartedly, unquestionably support Russia?

    Russia has barely a trace of communism anymore and it is hard right oligarchy that fits almost every definition of fascism. Not to mention HEAVILY racist and anti-LGBTQ (I have multiple friends who were from Russia and they were the ones who originally told me that before I saw it for myself in Russia)

    Yet the "antifa" hexbear will literally down vote you to hell and ban you if you say anything even slightly bad about Russia.

    Also news@hexbear is 80% articles about the war with everyone citing Russian propaganda as absolute truth and every western media, every human rights group, etc... is completely lying about the war.

    An interesting juxtaposition as they are in the same way pro Palestine and cite those human rights groups as telling the absolute truth in that case

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  • [–] 0 points 2 years ago (1 child)

    Why does everyone there unequivocally, wholeheartedly, unquestionably support Russia?

    You may not like this, but the simple answer is they don't.

    Russia has barely a trace of communism anymore and it is hard right oligarchy that fits almost every definition of fascism. Not to mention HEAVILY racist and anti-LGBTQ (I have multiple friends who were from Russia and they were the ones who originally told me that before I saw it for myself in Russia)

    Correct. Hexbear critically supports the role Russia plays as an anti-NATO country, and ally to the PRC, who Communists do support.

    Communists in general see Western Hegemony as the international proletariat's largest enemy, as the Global North hyper-exploits the Global South. Michael Parenti explains brilliantly in this short, 2 minute clip. Overall, Communists agree with Lenin's analysis in Imperialism, The Highest Stage of Capitalism, and agree that it remains the number 1 enemy of the international proletariat.

    NATO is the military alliance of the largest Imperialist exploiters of the Global South, and therefore weakening NATO Hegemony is a good thing. The Nationalist, far-right Russian Bourgeoisie fights against this, because they were not allowed to join the club after the fall of the USSR like they had hoped!

    Hope that helps.

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  • [–] 0 points 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago) (1 child)

    Then what about when they constantly refer to the rhetoric as "truth" how Ukraine was full of Nazis that were genociding the Russian minority and how Russia invaded to save them and has committed exactly 0 war crimes?

    I completely get that the US is not a good guy, most of western civilization was built on exploitation, imperialism, and subjugation of people. I even understand the great things China has done as far as huge quality of life upgrades for their people.

    But Russia is only similar to china in that they propagate huge anti-US propaganda and technically support each other as an anti-US coalition.

    Russia is also extremely imperialist, always has been, and literally has annexed (or tried to) multiple nations in the past decades, and is currently trying to do the same. Russia is everything that hexbear stands against, yet they unequivocally support them without any doubt.

    Go say literally any critical things of Russia in hexbear. You will 100% be down voted to oblivion, if not banned. If you say anything against Putin being the greatest leader in recent history, you will be down voted to hell if not banned. I have yet to see any critical speech of Russia on hexbear that didn't get removed or down voted so hard that the comment will never see the light of day.

    I understand being Anti-US, but if Russia was in the US's position, they would be just as bad if not worse for the treatment of people and propagating imperialism. Then to censor people about it... I can scream on other instances about how stupid the US is until I pass out and I wouldn't get banned. That is TruthSocial/theDonald/Twitter territory.

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  • [–] 1 point 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago) (1 child)

    I'm sorry, but again, this is a gross mischaracterization. Please actually read the links I sent, you don't need to read the Imperialism text but at least go through the thread I linked and the Parenti speech.

    I have been critical of the Russian Federation and Putin especially on Hexbear, and have been highly upvoted for it. Hexbear's position on Russia is nuanced, ask them to explain it and you'll get explanations.

    I understand being Anti-US, but if Russia was in the US's position, they would be just as bad if not worse for the treatment of people and propagating imperialism.

    This is 100% correct, the thing is, nobody but the US is in the US's position. Russia is acting in the manner they are because they aren't.

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  • [–] 0 points 2 years ago (1 child)

    https://hexbear.net/post/3025711

    https://hexbear.net/post/3379624

    https://hexbear.net/comment/5253718 top comment, massively upvoted

    https://hexbear.net/post/3232536 - more "all Ukrainians are Nazi rhetoric"

    https://hexbear.net/comment/4594619 - more "the war is just a local conflict with everyone on Russia's side" propaganda that is heavily upvoted. Objectively false. There is way way more nuance than that.

    https://hexbear.net/post/3394475 - Russia never does anything wrong. It is just Americans who of course blame it on Russia

    https://hexbear.net/comment/5113469 - Russia never does anything wrong. It is actually a conspiracy that Americans did it

    https://hexbear.net/comment/5084604 - Russia can do no wrong. Russia is destined to win and take the lands they want to annex

    https://hexbear.net/comment/5084494 - yet more Ukraine genocide rhetoric, straight from Russian propaganda

    https://lemmygrad.ml/post/4112194 - literally regurgitating unsubstantiated Russian propaganda. Literally one person saying "if you just blindly believed Russian propaganda 100% of the time, you would be right 70% of the time"

    https://hexbear.net/post/2763869 - "Russia is extremely generous with these terms", they only have to give up their land to glorious leader of Russia

    imperialism /ĭm-pîr′ē-ə-lĭz″əm/ noun

    • The extension of a nation's authority by territorial acquisition or by the establishment of economic and political dominance over other nations.

    • A political doctrine or system promoting such extension of authority.

    • The power or character of an emperor; imperial authority; the spirit of empire.

    Literally exactly the definition of Putin's post-socialism authoritarian Russia....

    Like "the enemy of my enemy" can only take you so far. Like when Putin blatantly poisoned a political opponent and everyone on hexbear was cheering them and saying "I'm surprised it took them this long"... Supporting a murderous regime because they happen to be against an exploitative corrupt regime doesn't even seem like a valid solution to me.

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  • [–] 0 points 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago)

    Again, you are not reading the links, nor are you interested in engaging in good faith. As an example:

    https://hexbear.net/post/3232536 - more "all Ukrainians are Nazi rhetoric"

    The comment was mocking the "no Ukranians are Nazis" rhetoric on a video of Ukranian soldiers with Nazi symbols on their helmets harassing an elderly Russian man. You aren't interested in truth, but debate-broing.

    As for your definition of Imperialism, I quite specifically linked Lenin's work on Imperialism as a stage of Capitalism, not merely invasion, yet you obscure that and push the dictionary definiton, again as a measure of bad-faith. Marxists specifically refer to international Monopoly Capitalism as Imperialism, something the Parenti video I linked you touches on well enough to give you a sufficient taste of Lenin's Imperialism so you don't have to read the book for this conversation, yet you twist words and pretend Hexbear is operating on a double standard by using the dictionary definition against a forum of Marxists using Lenin's definition!

    It's peak dishonesty, your other links are similarly dishonest readings out of context, hoping people won't actually click the link and see what they really said.

    If you aren't going to engage honestly, you need to logout and touch grass.

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  • [–] -4 points 2 years ago (2 children)

    But if you're anti fascism but pro authoritarianism, you're still wrong...

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  • [–] 18 points 2 years ago (1 child)

    I highly recommend you give Blackshirts and Reds: Rational Fascism and the Overthrow of Communism and On Authority a read. At least On Authority, as it's a very short piece, but the two combined should give you a basic understanding of the historical and theoretical basis of why marxists defend the use of authority. I can understand where you are coming from, I was more than a little skeptical of authoritarianism when I was younger and still identified as an anarchist, but I think if you take the time to honestly engage with our position then you will at least understand why our stance is what it is, and how we are diametrically opposed to fascism, even if you don't agree with us.

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  • [+] 3 points 2 years ago* (last edited 1 month ago) (1 child)
  • [+] -14 points 2 years ago (2 children)

    Aaaand you're low-key defending authoritarianism...

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  • [+] -9 points 2 years ago (2 children)

    This guy knows nothing of the political spectrum.

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  • [–] 16 points 2 years ago (1 child)

    This guy knows nothing of the political spectrum.

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  • [–] 1 point 2 years ago (2 children)

    Liberalism in the center? Gosh, this is the most American political coordinates there could be

    It's almost physically triggering how off-base that is

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  • [–] 1 point 2 years ago* (1 child)

    I’m sorry, I’m an American where liberals are actually centrists, but can you explain to me what else is off-base about this chart?

    Edit: I would also like to see a chart that is more accurate in your view if you have one available.

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  • [–] 2 points 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago) (1 child)

    Generally, it is the fact that right-wing entails focus on businesses and private property owners, and left-wing entails direct focus on the economic wellbeing of everyone and a more egalitarian society. Liberals do not strike a meaningful balance here, and commonly see business freedoms as paramount to building a prosperous society, generally pursuing business-friendly policies.

    In more extreme cases of the political spectrum (which I agree for in terms of clarity and fairness, but which are not really a consensus) left-wing is seen as actual socialism (i.e. collectively/socially owned enterprises) and right-wing is capitalism (i.e. private property and its operation for profit). This makes a useful and clear distinction in relation to economic policy and is not dictated by the hegemony of one option. It also makes centrism virtually impossible, which is good, because the meaning of "center" drifts radically between cultures, and most people tend to just associate with whatever is predominant in their culture while calling themselves such.

    Here is how voters of neighboring Canada have put themselves on a political compass, on average, in relation to their party of choice during the 2019 election. Note that liberals are very much not in the center, and more right-wing, while conservatives as well as People's party (don't look at the name, it's seen as far right even by American metrics), predictably, are extremely authoritarian-right.

    1000046575

    P.S. Sorry for being a bit rash :)

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  • [–] 3 points 2 years ago (1 child)

    I see US liberals as defending both social and economic policies. Here are some examples I can think of:

    • Supporting unions but also not cracking down on union busting as much as they should
    • Wanting universal healthcare solutions (Obamacare) while not wanting Medicare for all or proper socialized medicine.

    I am just speaking to what I observe, but I think the trick the liberal party in my country play is a show of being “for the people” and giving concessions but, in the end, being absolutely capitalist motivated.

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  • [–] 1 point 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago) (1 child)

    Yes! The latter part of what you say explains exactly to me why liberals cannot be the center.

    Being "for the people" is more of a show here, while they are funded and act in the interest of businesses. When people do demand change that goes against capitalists, they will play everything to keep the spectacle while clearly not choosing people's side. Often times, they don't even give concessions - just pretend internal struggles stopped them from implementing the changes. And at the same time, this doesn't break the logic of liberalism.

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  • [–] 1 point 2 years ago (1 child)

    Thanks for clearing that up. Also, I find it ironic talking to another leftist on the Hexbear hate thread.

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  • [–] 0 points 2 years ago (1 child)

    Why would you let a "chart" trigger you physically? What good will that do?

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  • [–] 2 points 2 years ago (1 child)

    The point is that it skews the understanding of "left" and "right" to favor the latter.

    Essentially serving as a tool to claim socialist policies extreme and liberal ones perfectly balanced.

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  • [–] -1 points 2 years ago (1 child)

    Sounds like your just slurring his opinion without trying to be civil and engaging with honest logical discussion.

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  • [–] 3 points 2 years ago (1 child)

    Which I would certainly engage in if I wouldn't remember you personally as a troll who cares little of civility.

    If someone else is up for debating it, I'm always here.

    Also, one thing you genuinely caught me on is a bit of an emotional outburst, while I generally am the one picking civility card. Good job! I do apologize for that part.

    The coordinates are heavily skewed and likely to either be formed in a right-wing society or intentionally made as to confuse people.

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  • [–] 0 points 2 years ago (1 child)

    Now your slurring me personally. Shame on you. How hard is it to believe I had a moment of emotional outburst? I hope you get the help you need and can be a kinder gentler person. Good day to you I hope your soul finds balance.

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  • [–] 1 point 2 years ago*

    My apologies. I previously didn't see you in civil conversations, while meeting you in your rainy ways twice before, and I could be too quick to conclude. Lemmy is flooded with that kind of stuff lately, which turns brain into a razor mode as a way of protecting against an artificial hate wave.

    If you'd like to politely discuss anything, I'm all for it.

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  • [–] 9 points 2 years ago (1 child)

    Most antifa groups are anarchist collectives. So I'm not sure where you're seeing this, unless it's solely from people that are terminally online.

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  • [–] 8 points 2 years ago

    Organized anti-fascist groups often have a mix of left ideological backgrounds, but are mostly anarchists and communists. We work together when it comes to physical defense, barricades, etc.

    e.g. many people in black bloc are Maoists even though outsiders tend to assume they are all anarchists.

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