▲ 267 ▼ Biden campaign speech on abortion rights disrupted 14 times by pro-Palestinian protesters (abcnews.go.com) submitted 2 years ago by return2ozma@lemmy.world to c/politics@lemmy.world 195 comments fedilink hide all child comments
[–] CptEnder@lemmy.world 80 points 2 years ago (24 children) We should be criticizing our old, conservative president Biden. He needs to 180 his stance. Also not voting for him in Nov is vapid and invalidates any defense of the Palestinian people you have. It sucks, but it's reality. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 27 child comments replies: [–] givesomefucks@lemmy.world 49 points 2 years ago (19 children) It sucks, but it’s reality. Yep. We legitimately have zero options besides voting for Biden. And I sincerely hope enough voters realize that, because trump will be worse. The only thing we can do till 2028 is make a lot of noise about how this shit is unacceptable and Dems need to do better Unfortunately the DNC knows that while we say it's unacceptable, we still have to vote Biden or risk trump. Which is why the DNC has spent 30 years drifting further and further right. They have captive voters and are willing to risk Republican rule so Dems can be as rightwing as possible. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 23 child comments replies: [–] RandomPancake@lemmy.world 8 points 2 years ago (25 children) This is honestly the best take on the issue I've seen so far. I am the first person to say we need to break the two-party stranglehold on politics. We need independent candidates in office yesterday. But this election is the abso-fucking-lutely worst time to make a run at that, because that third party vote WILL be a vote for Trump. And if you firmly believe that third party or independent politicians have a place, elect them to your local city council or school board or state legislature. That is where they will make a real, actionable difference. A vote against Biden, no matter who for, is a vote for Trump. No amount of TikTok "well ackshually" will change that reality. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 26 child comments replies: [–] vikingqueef@lemmy.dbzer0.com 1 point 2 years ago last election biden and harris were on the working families party line which is third party. i'm not sure this time around but do y'all even know how third party works? permalink fedilink source parent load more comments (24 replies) [–] vikingqueef@lemmy.dbzer0.com 1 point 2 years ago* We legitimately have zero options besides voting for Biden. If they stop funding israel and stop giving them arms, would it not get those votes back? are all of you really thinking biden would risk trump winning by refusing to halt arms and cash to israel and let the UN come to a ceasefire resolution? if its so dire, i think THEY have a responsibility to us and the palestinians. for one, all the money going to israel could go to be put to fixing our infrastructure, not destroying gaza's. two, aren't we going to need all these missiles and bombs for when we inevitably go to war with russia? The only thing we can do till 2028 is make a lot of noise about how this shit is unacceptable and Dems need to do better but just like every other election cycle, they will get their votes, continue on w/ biz as usual and then try to win our hearts again and/or fearmonger us again at the next election. with aipac and other big money donors doxxing and ousting progressives, i don't foresee a functional left after this election, regardless. however, people are mobilizing over this issue and rightly so, its fucking genocide. there is no acceptable amount of genocide and there is no justifiable reason to continue funding and arming it. permalink fedilink source parent [–] JustZ@lemmy.world 0 points 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago) (1 child) Okay but it has fact spent the last 8 years moving left. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] PRUSSIA_x86@lemmy.world 2 points 2 years ago (2 children) Okay but it has. The party as a whole moves a glacial pace because the bulk of the population still holds the same neo-liberal beliefs that they did eight years ago, but the left has been very quickly (in political terms) growing and flexing its muscles, considering it's a minority group. Give it time, these kinds of shifts can take decades. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 4 child comments replies: [–] winterayars@sh.itjust.works 2 points 2 years ago There was a national poll a couple years ago that showed a majority (>50%) of people thought burning down the police precinct in Minneapolis was justified. If asked where on the political spectrum that position was before George Floyd was murdered i bet most people would have said extreme Left (or maybe extreme Right). The country is, in a lot of ways, more ready to be Leftist than the Democratic Party and the Dems are really bad at capturing that energy. permalink fedilink source parent [–] JustZ@lemmy.world 1 point 2 years ago* Sorry my post was a typo. They DID move to the left over the last 8 years. permalink fedilink source parent [–] KoboldCoterie@pawb.social -2 points 2 years ago (1 child) They have captive voters and are willing to risk Republican rule so Dems can be as rightwing as possible. It's simply the logical thing for them to do, in the present state of things. The far left / moderate left voters are captive for the reason you note. The party is closely aligned with center-left viewpoints, so they have their votes. The far / moderate right voters are all voting republican. It's the swing voters / true centrists / center right voters who are up in the air, so those are the people the dems have to appease. So they drift further and further towards their viewpoints. Unfortunately we can't fix this situation without a healthy show that they don't have the far left / moderate left votes guaranteed, and need to start paying attention to what we want, too... but we can't do that without accepting a republican president, which we certainly can't do right now. So we're stuck. And it'll just keep happening that way, because as dems drift further left, the republicans are just falling off the right end of the scale, and they keep falling further every year. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] givesomefucks@lemmy.world 3 points 2 years ago It’s simply the logical thing for them to do, in the present state of things Except the last time we had a true progressive campaign... A lot of those 1/3 of voter showed up. And we flipped a bunch of "red states" that the DNC had given up on those. It's not that those people won't vote, they just won't vote for candidates like Biden and Hillary. But they turned up for Obama in 08. We found something that worked, and the DNC's response was to tighten down primaries so there wouldn't be another upset. Which has progressed to them straight up removing an entire states delegates. Unfortunately we can’t fix this situation without a healthy show that they don’t have the far left / moderate left votes guaranteed, and need to start paying attention to what we want, to I disagree. I think if a moderate loses because they don't get the progressive votes, then nothing will change. They'll say that progressives are unreliable and this means they need to go further right. Because we have decades of recent history that shows even if they still get the "lesser evil" votes, they'll still say the same thing if they lose. The only option is primaries, which is why I'm so pissed the DNC just vetoed a state primary by yanking delegates away. If we don't even have the primaries where the DNC openly say they can ignore results... We're kind of out of options. And I legitimately don't know what the path forward is. Or why everyone else isn't shitting bricks right now. If the DNC doesn't get substantial pushback, they're not going to just give up on this veto they just decided they'll have. Hell, Republicans will probably keep control of NH's state goverment for the next four years, if they don't agree to the DNCs demands about primary order, will NH Dems not get a say in 2028 either? permalink fedilink source parent load more comments (15 replies) [–] K1nsey6@lemmy.world 7 points 2 years ago Then you better start pushing your party to primary him or get someone else in there. His shitty numbers didnt start overnight, theyve seen the writing on the wall and refused to acknowledge it. permalink fedilink source parent [–] winterayars@sh.itjust.works 6 points 2 years ago (1 child) Biden's arrogance on this is incredible, though of course he's part of the party establishment so that's to be expected. "You aren't allowed to complain about anything and if we don't win this election it's all your fault" is not, it turns out, a winning campaign slogan. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] dragonflyteaparty@lemmy.world 1 point 2 years ago Please enlighten me. When did Biden say that? permalink fedilink source parent load more comments (21 replies)
[–] givesomefucks@lemmy.world 49 points 2 years ago (19 children) It sucks, but it’s reality. Yep. We legitimately have zero options besides voting for Biden. And I sincerely hope enough voters realize that, because trump will be worse. The only thing we can do till 2028 is make a lot of noise about how this shit is unacceptable and Dems need to do better Unfortunately the DNC knows that while we say it's unacceptable, we still have to vote Biden or risk trump. Which is why the DNC has spent 30 years drifting further and further right. They have captive voters and are willing to risk Republican rule so Dems can be as rightwing as possible. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 23 child comments replies: [–] RandomPancake@lemmy.world 8 points 2 years ago (25 children) This is honestly the best take on the issue I've seen so far. I am the first person to say we need to break the two-party stranglehold on politics. We need independent candidates in office yesterday. But this election is the abso-fucking-lutely worst time to make a run at that, because that third party vote WILL be a vote for Trump. And if you firmly believe that third party or independent politicians have a place, elect them to your local city council or school board or state legislature. That is where they will make a real, actionable difference. A vote against Biden, no matter who for, is a vote for Trump. No amount of TikTok "well ackshually" will change that reality. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 26 child comments replies: [–] vikingqueef@lemmy.dbzer0.com 1 point 2 years ago last election biden and harris were on the working families party line which is third party. i'm not sure this time around but do y'all even know how third party works? permalink fedilink source parent load more comments (24 replies) [–] vikingqueef@lemmy.dbzer0.com 1 point 2 years ago* We legitimately have zero options besides voting for Biden. If they stop funding israel and stop giving them arms, would it not get those votes back? are all of you really thinking biden would risk trump winning by refusing to halt arms and cash to israel and let the UN come to a ceasefire resolution? if its so dire, i think THEY have a responsibility to us and the palestinians. for one, all the money going to israel could go to be put to fixing our infrastructure, not destroying gaza's. two, aren't we going to need all these missiles and bombs for when we inevitably go to war with russia? The only thing we can do till 2028 is make a lot of noise about how this shit is unacceptable and Dems need to do better but just like every other election cycle, they will get their votes, continue on w/ biz as usual and then try to win our hearts again and/or fearmonger us again at the next election. with aipac and other big money donors doxxing and ousting progressives, i don't foresee a functional left after this election, regardless. however, people are mobilizing over this issue and rightly so, its fucking genocide. there is no acceptable amount of genocide and there is no justifiable reason to continue funding and arming it. permalink fedilink source parent [–] JustZ@lemmy.world 0 points 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago) (1 child) Okay but it has fact spent the last 8 years moving left. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] PRUSSIA_x86@lemmy.world 2 points 2 years ago (2 children) Okay but it has. The party as a whole moves a glacial pace because the bulk of the population still holds the same neo-liberal beliefs that they did eight years ago, but the left has been very quickly (in political terms) growing and flexing its muscles, considering it's a minority group. Give it time, these kinds of shifts can take decades. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 4 child comments replies: [–] winterayars@sh.itjust.works 2 points 2 years ago There was a national poll a couple years ago that showed a majority (>50%) of people thought burning down the police precinct in Minneapolis was justified. If asked where on the political spectrum that position was before George Floyd was murdered i bet most people would have said extreme Left (or maybe extreme Right). The country is, in a lot of ways, more ready to be Leftist than the Democratic Party and the Dems are really bad at capturing that energy. permalink fedilink source parent [–] JustZ@lemmy.world 1 point 2 years ago* Sorry my post was a typo. They DID move to the left over the last 8 years. permalink fedilink source parent [–] KoboldCoterie@pawb.social -2 points 2 years ago (1 child) They have captive voters and are willing to risk Republican rule so Dems can be as rightwing as possible. It's simply the logical thing for them to do, in the present state of things. The far left / moderate left voters are captive for the reason you note. The party is closely aligned with center-left viewpoints, so they have their votes. The far / moderate right voters are all voting republican. It's the swing voters / true centrists / center right voters who are up in the air, so those are the people the dems have to appease. So they drift further and further towards their viewpoints. Unfortunately we can't fix this situation without a healthy show that they don't have the far left / moderate left votes guaranteed, and need to start paying attention to what we want, too... but we can't do that without accepting a republican president, which we certainly can't do right now. So we're stuck. And it'll just keep happening that way, because as dems drift further left, the republicans are just falling off the right end of the scale, and they keep falling further every year. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] givesomefucks@lemmy.world 3 points 2 years ago It’s simply the logical thing for them to do, in the present state of things Except the last time we had a true progressive campaign... A lot of those 1/3 of voter showed up. And we flipped a bunch of "red states" that the DNC had given up on those. It's not that those people won't vote, they just won't vote for candidates like Biden and Hillary. But they turned up for Obama in 08. We found something that worked, and the DNC's response was to tighten down primaries so there wouldn't be another upset. Which has progressed to them straight up removing an entire states delegates. Unfortunately we can’t fix this situation without a healthy show that they don’t have the far left / moderate left votes guaranteed, and need to start paying attention to what we want, to I disagree. I think if a moderate loses because they don't get the progressive votes, then nothing will change. They'll say that progressives are unreliable and this means they need to go further right. Because we have decades of recent history that shows even if they still get the "lesser evil" votes, they'll still say the same thing if they lose. The only option is primaries, which is why I'm so pissed the DNC just vetoed a state primary by yanking delegates away. If we don't even have the primaries where the DNC openly say they can ignore results... We're kind of out of options. And I legitimately don't know what the path forward is. Or why everyone else isn't shitting bricks right now. If the DNC doesn't get substantial pushback, they're not going to just give up on this veto they just decided they'll have. Hell, Republicans will probably keep control of NH's state goverment for the next four years, if they don't agree to the DNCs demands about primary order, will NH Dems not get a say in 2028 either? permalink fedilink source parent load more comments (15 replies)
[–] RandomPancake@lemmy.world 8 points 2 years ago (25 children) This is honestly the best take on the issue I've seen so far. I am the first person to say we need to break the two-party stranglehold on politics. We need independent candidates in office yesterday. But this election is the abso-fucking-lutely worst time to make a run at that, because that third party vote WILL be a vote for Trump. And if you firmly believe that third party or independent politicians have a place, elect them to your local city council or school board or state legislature. That is where they will make a real, actionable difference. A vote against Biden, no matter who for, is a vote for Trump. No amount of TikTok "well ackshually" will change that reality. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 26 child comments replies: [–] vikingqueef@lemmy.dbzer0.com 1 point 2 years ago last election biden and harris were on the working families party line which is third party. i'm not sure this time around but do y'all even know how third party works? permalink fedilink source parent load more comments (24 replies)
[–] vikingqueef@lemmy.dbzer0.com 1 point 2 years ago last election biden and harris were on the working families party line which is third party. i'm not sure this time around but do y'all even know how third party works? permalink fedilink source parent
[–] vikingqueef@lemmy.dbzer0.com 1 point 2 years ago* We legitimately have zero options besides voting for Biden. If they stop funding israel and stop giving them arms, would it not get those votes back? are all of you really thinking biden would risk trump winning by refusing to halt arms and cash to israel and let the UN come to a ceasefire resolution? if its so dire, i think THEY have a responsibility to us and the palestinians. for one, all the money going to israel could go to be put to fixing our infrastructure, not destroying gaza's. two, aren't we going to need all these missiles and bombs for when we inevitably go to war with russia? The only thing we can do till 2028 is make a lot of noise about how this shit is unacceptable and Dems need to do better but just like every other election cycle, they will get their votes, continue on w/ biz as usual and then try to win our hearts again and/or fearmonger us again at the next election. with aipac and other big money donors doxxing and ousting progressives, i don't foresee a functional left after this election, regardless. however, people are mobilizing over this issue and rightly so, its fucking genocide. there is no acceptable amount of genocide and there is no justifiable reason to continue funding and arming it. permalink fedilink source parent
[–] JustZ@lemmy.world 0 points 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago) (1 child) Okay but it has fact spent the last 8 years moving left. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] PRUSSIA_x86@lemmy.world 2 points 2 years ago (2 children) Okay but it has. The party as a whole moves a glacial pace because the bulk of the population still holds the same neo-liberal beliefs that they did eight years ago, but the left has been very quickly (in political terms) growing and flexing its muscles, considering it's a minority group. Give it time, these kinds of shifts can take decades. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 4 child comments replies: [–] winterayars@sh.itjust.works 2 points 2 years ago There was a national poll a couple years ago that showed a majority (>50%) of people thought burning down the police precinct in Minneapolis was justified. If asked where on the political spectrum that position was before George Floyd was murdered i bet most people would have said extreme Left (or maybe extreme Right). The country is, in a lot of ways, more ready to be Leftist than the Democratic Party and the Dems are really bad at capturing that energy. permalink fedilink source parent [–] JustZ@lemmy.world 1 point 2 years ago* Sorry my post was a typo. They DID move to the left over the last 8 years. permalink fedilink source parent
[–] PRUSSIA_x86@lemmy.world 2 points 2 years ago (2 children) Okay but it has. The party as a whole moves a glacial pace because the bulk of the population still holds the same neo-liberal beliefs that they did eight years ago, but the left has been very quickly (in political terms) growing and flexing its muscles, considering it's a minority group. Give it time, these kinds of shifts can take decades. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 4 child comments replies: [–] winterayars@sh.itjust.works 2 points 2 years ago There was a national poll a couple years ago that showed a majority (>50%) of people thought burning down the police precinct in Minneapolis was justified. If asked where on the political spectrum that position was before George Floyd was murdered i bet most people would have said extreme Left (or maybe extreme Right). The country is, in a lot of ways, more ready to be Leftist than the Democratic Party and the Dems are really bad at capturing that energy. permalink fedilink source parent [–] JustZ@lemmy.world 1 point 2 years ago* Sorry my post was a typo. They DID move to the left over the last 8 years. permalink fedilink source parent
[–] winterayars@sh.itjust.works 2 points 2 years ago There was a national poll a couple years ago that showed a majority (>50%) of people thought burning down the police precinct in Minneapolis was justified. If asked where on the political spectrum that position was before George Floyd was murdered i bet most people would have said extreme Left (or maybe extreme Right). The country is, in a lot of ways, more ready to be Leftist than the Democratic Party and the Dems are really bad at capturing that energy. permalink fedilink source parent
[–] JustZ@lemmy.world 1 point 2 years ago* Sorry my post was a typo. They DID move to the left over the last 8 years. permalink fedilink source parent
[–] KoboldCoterie@pawb.social -2 points 2 years ago (1 child) They have captive voters and are willing to risk Republican rule so Dems can be as rightwing as possible. It's simply the logical thing for them to do, in the present state of things. The far left / moderate left voters are captive for the reason you note. The party is closely aligned with center-left viewpoints, so they have their votes. The far / moderate right voters are all voting republican. It's the swing voters / true centrists / center right voters who are up in the air, so those are the people the dems have to appease. So they drift further and further towards their viewpoints. Unfortunately we can't fix this situation without a healthy show that they don't have the far left / moderate left votes guaranteed, and need to start paying attention to what we want, too... but we can't do that without accepting a republican president, which we certainly can't do right now. So we're stuck. And it'll just keep happening that way, because as dems drift further left, the republicans are just falling off the right end of the scale, and they keep falling further every year. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] givesomefucks@lemmy.world 3 points 2 years ago It’s simply the logical thing for them to do, in the present state of things Except the last time we had a true progressive campaign... A lot of those 1/3 of voter showed up. And we flipped a bunch of "red states" that the DNC had given up on those. It's not that those people won't vote, they just won't vote for candidates like Biden and Hillary. But they turned up for Obama in 08. We found something that worked, and the DNC's response was to tighten down primaries so there wouldn't be another upset. Which has progressed to them straight up removing an entire states delegates. Unfortunately we can’t fix this situation without a healthy show that they don’t have the far left / moderate left votes guaranteed, and need to start paying attention to what we want, to I disagree. I think if a moderate loses because they don't get the progressive votes, then nothing will change. They'll say that progressives are unreliable and this means they need to go further right. Because we have decades of recent history that shows even if they still get the "lesser evil" votes, they'll still say the same thing if they lose. The only option is primaries, which is why I'm so pissed the DNC just vetoed a state primary by yanking delegates away. If we don't even have the primaries where the DNC openly say they can ignore results... We're kind of out of options. And I legitimately don't know what the path forward is. Or why everyone else isn't shitting bricks right now. If the DNC doesn't get substantial pushback, they're not going to just give up on this veto they just decided they'll have. Hell, Republicans will probably keep control of NH's state goverment for the next four years, if they don't agree to the DNCs demands about primary order, will NH Dems not get a say in 2028 either? permalink fedilink source parent
[–] givesomefucks@lemmy.world 3 points 2 years ago It’s simply the logical thing for them to do, in the present state of things Except the last time we had a true progressive campaign... A lot of those 1/3 of voter showed up. And we flipped a bunch of "red states" that the DNC had given up on those. It's not that those people won't vote, they just won't vote for candidates like Biden and Hillary. But they turned up for Obama in 08. We found something that worked, and the DNC's response was to tighten down primaries so there wouldn't be another upset. Which has progressed to them straight up removing an entire states delegates. Unfortunately we can’t fix this situation without a healthy show that they don’t have the far left / moderate left votes guaranteed, and need to start paying attention to what we want, to I disagree. I think if a moderate loses because they don't get the progressive votes, then nothing will change. They'll say that progressives are unreliable and this means they need to go further right. Because we have decades of recent history that shows even if they still get the "lesser evil" votes, they'll still say the same thing if they lose. The only option is primaries, which is why I'm so pissed the DNC just vetoed a state primary by yanking delegates away. If we don't even have the primaries where the DNC openly say they can ignore results... We're kind of out of options. And I legitimately don't know what the path forward is. Or why everyone else isn't shitting bricks right now. If the DNC doesn't get substantial pushback, they're not going to just give up on this veto they just decided they'll have. Hell, Republicans will probably keep control of NH's state goverment for the next four years, if they don't agree to the DNCs demands about primary order, will NH Dems not get a say in 2028 either? permalink fedilink source parent
[–] K1nsey6@lemmy.world 7 points 2 years ago Then you better start pushing your party to primary him or get someone else in there. His shitty numbers didnt start overnight, theyve seen the writing on the wall and refused to acknowledge it. permalink fedilink source parent
[–] winterayars@sh.itjust.works 6 points 2 years ago (1 child) Biden's arrogance on this is incredible, though of course he's part of the party establishment so that's to be expected. "You aren't allowed to complain about anything and if we don't win this election it's all your fault" is not, it turns out, a winning campaign slogan. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] dragonflyteaparty@lemmy.world 1 point 2 years ago Please enlighten me. When did Biden say that? permalink fedilink source parent
[–] dragonflyteaparty@lemmy.world 1 point 2 years ago Please enlighten me. When did Biden say that? permalink fedilink source parent