this post was submitted on 02 Jan 2024

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Infestation 88 devs address controversy over Neo-Nazi claims (www.pcgamesn.com)

submitted 2 years ago by stopthatgirl7@kbin.social to c/games@sh.itjust.works

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Infestation 88 developer, Nightmare Forge Games, have responded to claims that the '88' in the game's title refers to the Neo-Nazi salute.

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[–] TootSweet@lemmy.world 41 points 2 years ago* (5 children)

It seems like every time the alt-right and neo-Nazis make something a new dog whistle (remember the "ok" sign thing that started on 4chan?) the left is just like "oh fuck, I guess we better stop using that now."

I'm not sure there's a better option. It's not like it's a good idea to just go on flashing "ok" signs and pretending it hasn't been coopted by fascists, but it seems shitty and frustrating to just cede ground like that every time the alt right is just like "this is ours now."

Come to think of it, I named a project at my workplace "IG-88" a while back and didn't think about the Nazi connection until the name was already in common use. (With that name, the project in question even had a badass theme song.)

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[–] CorrodedCranium@leminal.space 24 points 2 years ago* (1 child)

There's some pretty obscure ones to that came and went in a hurry like a glass of milk.

I feel like some have also been claimed for general use. I don't really associate Pepe memes with the alt right anymore

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[–] Poopfeast420@kbin.social 13 points 2 years ago

I'm mainly associating Pepe with all the Twitch emotes.

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[+] lvxferre@lemmy.ml 14 points 2 years ago* (1 child)

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[–] YarHarSuperstar@lemmy.world 19 points 2 years ago* (1 child)

Well sure, but people use dog whistles so it's important to recognize them. Context can be important but sometimes it's subtle, that's why they're called dog whistles.

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[+] lvxferre@lemmy.ml 4 points 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago) (1 child)

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[–] NuXCOM_90Percent@lemmy.zip 8 points 2 years ago (1 child)

No, fascists do use dog whistles. near constantly. In part because they are generally too chicken shit to say anything. It is similar to how (fascist) republicans think they are clever with "go brandon" whereas liberals and leftists just say "Fuck trump, I hope he dies of the most painful cancer imaginable".

And while there are "false positives", those are almost all immediately resolved with "yo dog. Uhm... I get you are in your mid 30s but you may want to stop putting your birth year in posts" and a "... holy fuck. Fucking nazis". Because, "context" generally does apply. The people who need to sign off "14 88" for every single tweet are usually also liking other white supremacist shit. Whereas the people who just got screwed over by what GFWL suggested their username should be twenty years ago have a history of advocating for tolerance and leftist thought.

As for "false negatives": Okay? Some fascists will be undetected with or without acknowledging their "super secret code" of dog whistling.

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[+] lvxferre@lemmy.ml 0 points 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago)

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[–] turtlepower@lemm.ee 6 points 2 years ago (1 child)

The "ok" sign thing pissed me off. I had learned from a very young age that it was sign language for "ok" (it combines the signs for the letters) and when I went to swim class, my mom would watch and when I'd look over to her she would sign that to me that everything was ok, and sign "I love you" (🤟 — not to be confused with 🤘ROCKANDROLL🤘) to me as well. For the record, no one in our family is deaf, we just learned some basic sign language because communication is cool.

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[–] sugar_in_your_tea@sh.itjust.works 2 points 2 years ago (1 child)

Then keep using it as the ok sign.

If they coopted the peace sign or the "I love you" sign, would you stop using them too? Stop giving in to their trolling. I feel like being so sensitive to Nazis gives them way more relevance than they deserve.

I'm not saying we should ignore Nazis in general, just... don't let them control our culture.

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[–] turtlepower@lemm.ee 2 points 2 years ago (1 child)

That's easier said than done when you have political idiots that will see it and try to ruin your life uploading shit to the internet saying you're doing it for the wrong reason. It's not just the Nazis themselves, but the idiots that think they're being progressive and an ally and all that shit when they don't know their ass from a hole in the ground.

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[–] sugar_in_your_tea@sh.itjust.works 1 point 2 years ago

Exactly. Progressives are their own worst enemy, and their behavior calling out Nazis just makes Nazis more popular.

It's usually best to ignore idiots and trolls than give them attention.

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[–] sugar_in_your_tea@sh.itjust.works 6 points 2 years ago (1 child)

It's not like it's a good idea to just go on flashing "ok" signs and pretending it hasn't been coopted by facists

Why not? Symbols only have meaning given context. In Germany, a swastika is a symbol of hate, whereas in India it's a symbol of prosperity and good luck. It's usually not hard to differentiate them, so there's no real reason to avoid a symbol just because some idiots have decided to use it to mean something else.

On the flip side, there's a fantastic reason to keep using them: the best way to beat a troll/bully is to ignore them. Don't give them the emotional response they're looking for and you remove all rewards for their behavior.

So if the alt-right coopt a symbol, use it more. Don't let them impact you or they'll keep doing it.

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[–] TootSweet@lemmy.world 2 points 2 years ago (1 child)

So does that mean you would have preferred that Infestation hadn't changed its name?

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[–] sugar_in_your_tea@sh.itjust.works -1 points 2 years ago (3 children)

I guess? I honestly had never heard of the "88" terminology, I guess I just don't follow neo-Nazi nonsense that closely. Maybe I'd respond by making the protagonist Jewish or something in a minor content update, just to mess with people.

This whole "cancelling" culture is absolutely stupid. Neo-Nazis don't own numbers, hand symbols, or anything else, so I wouldn't give in to that nonsense. Then again, I'm not trying to live off making video games, and if I ever did release any (and I hope to), it'll be as a hobby and not as a job.

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[–] ZOSTED@sh.itjust.works 4 points 2 years ago (1 child)

I get what you're saying, but in cases like this I think it's important to "signal" (but like unironically) that you aren't trying to do a little wink and a nod to racists. Yeah it can be tiring, and it's not an exact science, and we're going to slip up, but that's the worthy work of making sure racists don't feel welcome to be even subtly racist in our spaces.

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[–] sugar_in_your_tea@sh.itjust.works -1 points 2 years ago

Well, they did change the name. That's a pretty big signal.

But honestly, this whole culture of avoiding anything some enemy group has coopted just gives that group legitimacy. Every time we bend over backwards to avoid Nazi stuff gives the Nazis more publicity, and as they say, there's no such thing as bad publicity. So merely calling this out helps Nazis.

I really don't get how that's not obvious. If we keep calling everything "Nazi stuff," we'll keep talking about Nazis, and then someone will get curious, think the public is being "unfair" and sympathize with the Nazis. We're doing their job for them...

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[–] DigitalTraveler42@lemmy.world 4 points 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago) (2 children)

Here's a list for you to educate yourself on what is or isn't currently nazi shit online:

https://www.isdglobal.org/explainers/memes-the-extreme-right-wing/

https://www.bellingcat.com/news/2021/07/01/white-boy-summer-nazi-memes-and-the-mainstreaming-of-white-supremacist-violence/

https://www.adl.org/sites/default/files/ADL%20Hate%20on%20Display%20Printable_0.pdf

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_symbols_designated_by_the_Anti-Defamation_League_as_hate_symbols

And they thrive on your ignorance, they are out there and they aren't just recruiting for numbers, they're also recruiting for people like you who are dismissive of them, because if your dismissive of them then you're also dismissive of those of us trying to educate people about them, they want people to ignore both them and us.

Also cancel culture doesn't exist, consequence culture is what exists, the only people that bitch about cancel culture are the ones who's bad deeds have caught up with them and they don't want accountability for their actions, so they, and their stupid ignorant sycophants cry "I'm being cancelled!" When in fact they were just being pieces of shit that accountability is finally catching up to.

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[–] Kusimulkku@lemm.ee 5 points 2 years ago (1 child)

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_symbols_designated_by_the_Anti-Defamation_League_as_hate_symbols

ACAB - All Cops Are Bastards

Interesting start to that list

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[–] ZOSTED@sh.itjust.works 1 point 2 years ago

Imagine identifying as a class traitor

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[–] sugar_in_your_tea@sh.itjust.works 0 points 2 years ago

they thrive on your ignorance

No, they thrive on your fear and outrage. As they say, there's no such thing as bad publicity. If they manage to tick you off, people who like watching you get angry will be attracted to their side.

cancel culture doesn't exist

Really? I can point to several examples where someone's career was ruined just because they were "cancelled" ([here are three CBS reported on] (https://www.cbsnews.com/news/cancel-culture-changed-lives-forever-cbsn-originals/)).

Usually what happens is this:

Person says or does something to offend some group (often by accident)
Said group demands an apology
Person apologizes
No company wants to associate with the person for fear of backlash
The person is either fired or loses all followers

The best strategy, apparently, is to not apologize. That ticks off the group, but it also generally reduces how much publicity the event gets, which means there's a decent chance for it to blow over. In some cases, this leads to weird extremist subgroups because the person attracts the wrong sorts, and in others the person is able to change their behavior so that group comes back after forgetting about the incident.

It's incredibly stupid that apparently apologizing is punished, but that's how it seems to work out. Those who have been targeted that don't apologize tend to not be as impacted.

That said, I'll look through those links. I'm always interested to identify bigots so I can avoid them.

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[–] wildginger@lemmy.myserv.one 0 points 2 years ago (1 child)

Its weird to say youve never heard of the 88 thing, as thats taught in history classes in the US, a country famous for shit education. In europe, loads of countries have laws against using it because of this.

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[–] sugar_in_your_tea@sh.itjust.works 3 points 2 years ago

Really? Is it a relatively recent thing? My last US/European history class was over 15 years ago, so if it came up anytime I'm the last two decades, i wouldn't have learned about it.

From some cursory research, it started being a thing at least as of the early 2000s, and that's about when i went to high school. So it could very well have not been popular enough yet to cover in school.

Regardless, it's not something I've come across. I wonder if the devs here are the same way.

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[–] Blamemeta@lemm.ee 1 point 2 years ago (2 children)

Honestly, a lot of it was just some random twitter user trying to start shit. The drinking milk thing was one of those.

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[–] TootSweet@lemmy.world 6 points 2 years ago (1 child)

Yeah. The "ok sign" one started just as some random 4chan post.

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[–] DigitalTraveler42@lemmy.world 0 points 2 years ago

That wasn't some random 4chan post it was something planned by a group of 4chan users that made it into an "operation" to push this to go after liberals and the media, and why would they he doing that? Oh because it was started by actual Nazis on 4chan.

Again this is just Nazis trying to use left wing and media overreaction to cover up their Nazi shit, they like trying to make us look like we're jumping at shadows while they operate with impunity.

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[–] DigitalTraveler42@lemmy.world 0 points 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago)

That's the thing is it always seems like it's just one of these shitheads but soon enough it always becomes more, that's why they push this stuff, and why they hope for reactions like yours.

It goes back to the 60's and 70's, the dawn of Punk music, back before Skinheads were inherently Nazi they were black and white people in London fighting for worker solidarity, then the Nazis took it over and it became a thing inherently Nazi.

So this corruption of things is what they do to grow and to maintain a general ignorance about them.

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