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Infestation 88 devs address controversy over Neo-Nazi claims (www.pcgamesn.com)
submitted 2 years ago by to c/games@sh.itjust.works
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Infestation 88 developer, Nightmare Forge Games, have responded to claims that the '88' in the game's title refers to the Neo-Nazi salute.

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[–] 6 points 2 years ago (1 child)

It's not like it's a good idea to just go on flashing "ok" signs and pretending it hasn't been coopted by facists

Why not? Symbols only have meaning given context. In Germany, a swastika is a symbol of hate, whereas in India it's a symbol of prosperity and good luck. It's usually not hard to differentiate them, so there's no real reason to avoid a symbol just because some idiots have decided to use it to mean something else.

On the flip side, there's a fantastic reason to keep using them: the best way to beat a troll/bully is to ignore them. Don't give them the emotional response they're looking for and you remove all rewards for their behavior.

So if the alt-right coopt a symbol, use it more. Don't let them impact you or they'll keep doing it.

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  • [–] 2 points 2 years ago (1 child)

    So does that mean you would have preferred that Infestation hadn't changed its name?

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  • [–] -1 points 2 years ago (3 children)

    I guess? I honestly had never heard of the "88" terminology, I guess I just don't follow neo-Nazi nonsense that closely. Maybe I'd respond by making the protagonist Jewish or something in a minor content update, just to mess with people.

    This whole "cancelling" culture is absolutely stupid. Neo-Nazis don't own numbers, hand symbols, or anything else, so I wouldn't give in to that nonsense. Then again, I'm not trying to live off making video games, and if I ever did release any (and I hope to), it'll be as a hobby and not as a job.

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  • [–] 4 points 2 years ago (1 child)

    I get what you're saying, but in cases like this I think it's important to "signal" (but like unironically) that you aren't trying to do a little wink and a nod to racists. Yeah it can be tiring, and it's not an exact science, and we're going to slip up, but that's the worthy work of making sure racists don't feel welcome to be even subtly racist in our spaces.

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  • [–] -1 points 2 years ago

    Well, they did change the name. That's a pretty big signal.

    But honestly, this whole culture of avoiding anything some enemy group has coopted just gives that group legitimacy. Every time we bend over backwards to avoid Nazi stuff gives the Nazis more publicity, and as they say, there's no such thing as bad publicity. So merely calling this out helps Nazis.

    I really don't get how that's not obvious. If we keep calling everything "Nazi stuff," we'll keep talking about Nazis, and then someone will get curious, think the public is being "unfair" and sympathize with the Nazis. We're doing their job for them...

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  • [–] 4 points 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago) (2 children)

    Here's a list for you to educate yourself on what is or isn't currently nazi shit online:

    https://www.isdglobal.org/explainers/memes-the-extreme-right-wing/

    https://www.bellingcat.com/news/2021/07/01/white-boy-summer-nazi-memes-and-the-mainstreaming-of-white-supremacist-violence/

    https://www.adl.org/sites/default/files/ADL%20Hate%20on%20Display%20Printable_0.pdf

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_symbols_designated_by_the_Anti-Defamation_League_as_hate_symbols

    And they thrive on your ignorance, they are out there and they aren't just recruiting for numbers, they're also recruiting for people like you who are dismissive of them, because if your dismissive of them then you're also dismissive of those of us trying to educate people about them, they want people to ignore both them and us.

    Also cancel culture doesn't exist, consequence culture is what exists, the only people that bitch about cancel culture are the ones who's bad deeds have caught up with them and they don't want accountability for their actions, so they, and their stupid ignorant sycophants cry "I'm being cancelled!" When in fact they were just being pieces of shit that accountability is finally catching up to.

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  • [–] 0 points 2 years ago

    they thrive on your ignorance

    No, they thrive on your fear and outrage. As they say, there's no such thing as bad publicity. If they manage to tick you off, people who like watching you get angry will be attracted to their side.

    cancel culture doesn't exist

    Really? I can point to several examples where someone's career was ruined just because they were "cancelled" ([here are three CBS reported on] (https://www.cbsnews.com/news/cancel-culture-changed-lives-forever-cbsn-originals/)).

    Usually what happens is this:

    1. Person says or does something to offend some group (often by accident)
    2. Said group demands an apology
    3. Person apologizes
    4. No company wants to associate with the person for fear of backlash
    5. The person is either fired or loses all followers

    The best strategy, apparently, is to not apologize. That ticks off the group, but it also generally reduces how much publicity the event gets, which means there's a decent chance for it to blow over. In some cases, this leads to weird extremist subgroups because the person attracts the wrong sorts, and in others the person is able to change their behavior so that group comes back after forgetting about the incident.

    It's incredibly stupid that apparently apologizing is punished, but that's how it seems to work out. Those who have been targeted that don't apologize tend to not be as impacted.

    That said, I'll look through those links. I'm always interested to identify bigots so I can avoid them.

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  • [–] 0 points 2 years ago (1 child)

    Its weird to say youve never heard of the 88 thing, as thats taught in history classes in the US, a country famous for shit education. In europe, loads of countries have laws against using it because of this.

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  • [–] 3 points 2 years ago

    Really? Is it a relatively recent thing? My last US/European history class was over 15 years ago, so if it came up anytime I'm the last two decades, i wouldn't have learned about it.

    From some cursory research, it started being a thing at least as of the early 2000s, and that's about when i went to high school. So it could very well have not been popular enough yet to cover in school.

    Regardless, it's not something I've come across. I wonder if the devs here are the same way.

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