▲ 791 ▼ Reinvented from first principles (lemmy.world) submitted 1 month ago by The_Picard_Maneuver@lemmy.world to c/whitepeopletwitter@sh.itjust.works 96 comments fedilink hide all child comments
[–] aeronmelon@lemmy.world 89 points 1 month ago (6 children) The past had a LOT of smiths. permalink fedilink source hideshow 12 child comments replies: [–] The_Picard_Maneuver@lemmy.world [S] 68 points 1 month ago (2 children) Or maybe it was the sexiest profession back then. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 4 child comments replies: [–] xkbx@startrek.website 57 points 1 month ago (3 children) It’s because most anvils were tuned to G. It was considered the original root scale step because anvils often worked best when tuned to G. But back in those days, it was called Sol (Solfège.) In french, Sol means ground, which is at the bottom. Ergo, every hammer driven by the smith was really just a sort of mating call that sent all the bottoms running to the smith’s doorstep. This is where the expression “she built like an anvil” comes from permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 6 child comments replies: [–] Nouvellalia@lemmy.world 76 points 1 month ago (1 child) permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] Valmond@lemmy.dbzer0.com 4 points 1 month ago Best thread this month permalink fedilink source parent [–] Lemming6969@lemmy.world 7 points 1 month ago (1 child) So Mason = Built like a brick shithouse permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] blazeknave@lemmy.world 3 points 1 month ago (1 child) Read above you thinking... You mean she's a brick.. house? permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] Pelicanen@fedia.io 3 points 1 month ago She's mighty, mighty, just letting it all hang out. permalink fedilink source parent [–] thethunderwolf@lemmy.dbzer0.com 2 points 1 month ago* reads like a tr*mp xeet lol permalink fedilink source parent [–] tdawg@lemmy.world 17 points 1 month ago (2 children) Only the sexy professions reproduced permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 4 child comments replies: [–] Infinite@lemmy.zip 6 points 1 month ago (1 child) Smiths got all the tang. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] Kellenved@sh.itjust.works 3 points 1 month ago Seems many did not, but I did, see what you did there permalink fedilink source parent [–] homes@piefed.world 3 points 1 month ago (1 child) Welcome to social Darwinism permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] teyrnon@sh.itjust.works 8 points 1 month ago (1 child) Social darwinism isn't that, although it's big with people of Netherlandian extraction, Calvinists. Social darwinism is the belief that everything is preordained, and if you are rich, god favors you, if poor, god hates you. It would be irresponsible to help the poor because god wants them to suffer, and so forth. Like the Prosperity Doctrine. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] homes@piefed.world 3 points 1 month ago (1 child) I was kidding permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] tdawg@lemmy.world 2 points 1 month ago Didn't someone tell you it's illegal to make jokes on Lemmy permalink fedilink source parent [–] Vlhvhkctjxrhxv@ani.social 27 points 1 month ago* (5 children) Metalsmith, Blacksmith, Gunsmith, Goldsmith, Silversmith, Locksmith, Coppersmith, Tinsmith, Wordsmith, Songsmith permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 10 child comments replies: [–] aeronmelon@lemmy.world 16 points 1 month ago (1 child) “Hey, kids! It’s time for the PokeRap!” permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] AzuranAurora@piefed.ca 5 points 1 month ago Gonna, gonna, gonna forge 'em all. Gonna forge 'em all, Smithemon! permalink fedilink source parent [–] WhiskyTangoFoxtrot@lemmy.world 8 points 1 month ago Poopsmith permalink fedilink source parent [–] Akasazh@lemmy.world 3 points 1 month ago Whitesmith is also used permalink fedilink source parent [–] dejected_warp_core@lemmy.world 3 points 1 month ago (2 children) Also, a bunch of Wrights too: Cartwright, Wainwright, Shipwright, Wheelright, etc. Then there's just plain occupational names: Miller, Farmer, Thatcher, and so on. Had this tradition continued, the information age would have given us: Chipwright, Cloudwright, Videosmith, Hacksmith, Coder, Tester, Gamer, Printer, and probably a ton more. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 4 child comments replies: [–] merc@sh.itjust.works 9 points 1 month ago (1 child) I always found it fun to learn about these old timey professions that (basically) no longer exist, but still exist as names, like: Cooper: a craftsman who makes barrels, casks, etc., Hooper: an assistant to the cooper. Someone who put the hoops (bands of metal or wood) around the barrels. This one is especially good because coopers took over the job of putting the bands on, so the job died off while "cooper" still existed as a job, yet there are still people with that name Fuller / Walker: a person who softens and cleans wool, sometimes by walking on it, sometimes using the hands Clark: this one still exists, but is spelled and pronounced differently as "clerk". Turner: someone who operated a lathe. Basically a specialized machinist. Marshall: this is a fun one. Originally it had to do with horses, it was "mareshal", but then somehow evolved to be a high officer of the court, unrelated to "martial" which sounds the same but comes from "Mars" the god of war. Parker: The job exists now, but is more "park ranger" or just "ranger" Baxter: Baker -- but the feminine form of the word. Similarly "Webster" is the female form of "Weber" (Weaver), Brewster is the female version of Brewer, Spinster is the female form of Spinner, etc. Carter: someone who moves goods with a cart permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] FavouriteShapes@sh.itjust.works 1 point 1 month ago (1 child) Maybe "Marshalls" working for courts would set out on horses to round up runaways and bring them before the court. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] merc@sh.itjust.works 2 points 1 month ago "Court" I think, in this sense, was the king's court, not a judicial court. But, I think you're onto something about how it started as someone who took care of horses then probably evolved to being in charge of horses or something, to then being the official with the big job related to horses. I guess it's a bit like how "secretary" can be either a person making near minimum wage who does office work, or it can be the most powerful person in the cabinet who deals with X. permalink fedilink source parent [–] okwhateverdude@lemmy.world 3 points 1 month ago Man, sign me the fuck up for Hacksmith or Codewright. I'm all for nominative determinism like this permalink fedilink source parent [–] hakunawazo@lemmy.world 1 point 1 month ago* ...we didn't start the fire ♫♫ permalink fedilink source parent [–] dfyx@lemmy.helios42.de 20 points 1 month ago (1 child) Smiths and millers were common enough professions that basically every village had one but rare enough to be useful as a description. John the farmer would have been way too vague, leading to names that come from physical appearance, place of origin or relatives‘ given names. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] Tar_alcaran@sh.itjust.works 15 points 1 month ago (1 child) John the farmer would have been way too vague "De boer", or "the farmer" is the 10th most common surname in the Netherlands. Top three are "The young", "son of Jan" and "The Frisian". permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] cornshark@lemmy.world 8 points 1 month ago (1 child) Who's Jan permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] thethunderwolf@lemmy.dbzer0.com 5 points 1 month ago* ur mom (???) permalink fedilink source parent [–] Semi_Hemi_Demigod@lemmy.world 19 points 1 month ago (2 children) Smiths were generally wealthier so they had a better diet and what amounted to medical care, and they were rarely put in combat because they were needed to make weapons. So more of them survived. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 4 child comments replies: [–] schipelblorp@sh.itjust.works 16 points 1 month ago* (last edited 1 month ago) (1 child) [smiths] were rarely put in combat because they were needed to make weapons. So more of them survived. That's how it works for my dwarves, too. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] Nouvellalia@lemmy.world 10 points 1 month ago permalink fedilink source parent [–] teyrnon@sh.itjust.works 6 points 1 month ago (1 child) People in cthe middle ages in ciities were wealthier and healthier, and free. People in the country were slaves or tools of the local lords. City air makes you free they would say, cities were filled with free people, and run by guilds generally, smiths chief amongst them. Other cities were more merchant ruled chiefly. The nobility forever looked down on commerce, everything except agriculture and war generally. You couldn't just move into a city, you needed an in, like getting accepted as an apprentice in a guild. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] Semi_Hemi_Demigod@lemmy.world 5 points 1 month ago Totally true, and there were also smiths scattered around rural areas in small towns like mechanics today. permalink fedilink source parent [–] StillAlive@piefed.world 9 points 1 month ago Smith be smithing tho permalink fedilink source parent [–] FavouriteShapes@sh.itjust.works 1 point 1 month ago* I reckon the high prevalance of the Smith surname isn't really down to a highly smith-based economy, but because it was a quite respectable profession for both social classes - high paid, possibly self employed, talented/educated - but also useful strong and dependable. So if you have to choose between different surnames you might therefore go: "ah my parent was a smith so i can be a smith too" "my parent chose to use their smith parent's surname so i will choose it too because it gets respect" Or, maybe smiths always needed a lot of helpers and instead of taking the surname "Prentice/Prentiss" they would just go with Smith, as it's neater. Maybe those with some experience working a forge or shaping metal had more liberty to move to different towns for work; In a new town, locals who'd lived there their whole life wouldn't need an identifying surname (assuming this is pre-surname consolidation in Britain) but the Smiths would have that as a tradename, thus advertising their services. Presumably also, every town needed at least one local tinkerer or metalworker - there are/were like 10,000s of distinct villages all over England. So if we presume that tradespeople always have surnames of their trade and non-tradespeople (like farm labourers) don't usually feel a need to, The Smiths already have a greater share of the surnamed population in the census. Lastly, I'm guessing the smiths had a somewhat better quality of life in relation to disease and poverty. Possibly the hot forges kill off harmful bacteria and they had "middle class" income and no vulnerability to random agriculture failure, like farmers did. One reason why I don't think it's because "the king ordered loads and loads of people to become smiths during one particular war and we were left with an overabundance of Smiths" is because The high prevelance of the "Smith" surname is also observed in Germany, Spain, Poland and elsewhere. As Schmidt, Herrero and Kowalski, respectively. The more you know! permalink fedilink source parent
[–] The_Picard_Maneuver@lemmy.world [S] 68 points 1 month ago (2 children) Or maybe it was the sexiest profession back then. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 4 child comments replies: [–] xkbx@startrek.website 57 points 1 month ago (3 children) It’s because most anvils were tuned to G. It was considered the original root scale step because anvils often worked best when tuned to G. But back in those days, it was called Sol (Solfège.) In french, Sol means ground, which is at the bottom. Ergo, every hammer driven by the smith was really just a sort of mating call that sent all the bottoms running to the smith’s doorstep. This is where the expression “she built like an anvil” comes from permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 6 child comments replies: [–] Nouvellalia@lemmy.world 76 points 1 month ago (1 child) permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] Valmond@lemmy.dbzer0.com 4 points 1 month ago Best thread this month permalink fedilink source parent [–] Lemming6969@lemmy.world 7 points 1 month ago (1 child) So Mason = Built like a brick shithouse permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] blazeknave@lemmy.world 3 points 1 month ago (1 child) Read above you thinking... You mean she's a brick.. house? permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] Pelicanen@fedia.io 3 points 1 month ago She's mighty, mighty, just letting it all hang out. permalink fedilink source parent [–] thethunderwolf@lemmy.dbzer0.com 2 points 1 month ago* reads like a tr*mp xeet lol permalink fedilink source parent [–] tdawg@lemmy.world 17 points 1 month ago (2 children) Only the sexy professions reproduced permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 4 child comments replies: [–] Infinite@lemmy.zip 6 points 1 month ago (1 child) Smiths got all the tang. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] Kellenved@sh.itjust.works 3 points 1 month ago Seems many did not, but I did, see what you did there permalink fedilink source parent [–] homes@piefed.world 3 points 1 month ago (1 child) Welcome to social Darwinism permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] teyrnon@sh.itjust.works 8 points 1 month ago (1 child) Social darwinism isn't that, although it's big with people of Netherlandian extraction, Calvinists. Social darwinism is the belief that everything is preordained, and if you are rich, god favors you, if poor, god hates you. It would be irresponsible to help the poor because god wants them to suffer, and so forth. Like the Prosperity Doctrine. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] homes@piefed.world 3 points 1 month ago (1 child) I was kidding permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] tdawg@lemmy.world 2 points 1 month ago Didn't someone tell you it's illegal to make jokes on Lemmy permalink fedilink source parent
[–] xkbx@startrek.website 57 points 1 month ago (3 children) It’s because most anvils were tuned to G. It was considered the original root scale step because anvils often worked best when tuned to G. But back in those days, it was called Sol (Solfège.) In french, Sol means ground, which is at the bottom. Ergo, every hammer driven by the smith was really just a sort of mating call that sent all the bottoms running to the smith’s doorstep. This is where the expression “she built like an anvil” comes from permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 6 child comments replies: [–] Nouvellalia@lemmy.world 76 points 1 month ago (1 child) permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] Valmond@lemmy.dbzer0.com 4 points 1 month ago Best thread this month permalink fedilink source parent [–] Lemming6969@lemmy.world 7 points 1 month ago (1 child) So Mason = Built like a brick shithouse permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] blazeknave@lemmy.world 3 points 1 month ago (1 child) Read above you thinking... You mean she's a brick.. house? permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] Pelicanen@fedia.io 3 points 1 month ago She's mighty, mighty, just letting it all hang out. permalink fedilink source parent [–] thethunderwolf@lemmy.dbzer0.com 2 points 1 month ago* reads like a tr*mp xeet lol permalink fedilink source parent
[–] Nouvellalia@lemmy.world 76 points 1 month ago (1 child) permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] Valmond@lemmy.dbzer0.com 4 points 1 month ago Best thread this month permalink fedilink source parent
[–] Valmond@lemmy.dbzer0.com 4 points 1 month ago Best thread this month permalink fedilink source parent
[–] Lemming6969@lemmy.world 7 points 1 month ago (1 child) So Mason = Built like a brick shithouse permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] blazeknave@lemmy.world 3 points 1 month ago (1 child) Read above you thinking... You mean she's a brick.. house? permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] Pelicanen@fedia.io 3 points 1 month ago She's mighty, mighty, just letting it all hang out. permalink fedilink source parent
[–] blazeknave@lemmy.world 3 points 1 month ago (1 child) Read above you thinking... You mean she's a brick.. house? permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] Pelicanen@fedia.io 3 points 1 month ago She's mighty, mighty, just letting it all hang out. permalink fedilink source parent
[–] Pelicanen@fedia.io 3 points 1 month ago She's mighty, mighty, just letting it all hang out. permalink fedilink source parent
[–] thethunderwolf@lemmy.dbzer0.com 2 points 1 month ago* reads like a tr*mp xeet lol permalink fedilink source parent
[–] tdawg@lemmy.world 17 points 1 month ago (2 children) Only the sexy professions reproduced permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 4 child comments replies: [–] Infinite@lemmy.zip 6 points 1 month ago (1 child) Smiths got all the tang. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] Kellenved@sh.itjust.works 3 points 1 month ago Seems many did not, but I did, see what you did there permalink fedilink source parent [–] homes@piefed.world 3 points 1 month ago (1 child) Welcome to social Darwinism permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] teyrnon@sh.itjust.works 8 points 1 month ago (1 child) Social darwinism isn't that, although it's big with people of Netherlandian extraction, Calvinists. Social darwinism is the belief that everything is preordained, and if you are rich, god favors you, if poor, god hates you. It would be irresponsible to help the poor because god wants them to suffer, and so forth. Like the Prosperity Doctrine. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] homes@piefed.world 3 points 1 month ago (1 child) I was kidding permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] tdawg@lemmy.world 2 points 1 month ago Didn't someone tell you it's illegal to make jokes on Lemmy permalink fedilink source parent
[–] Infinite@lemmy.zip 6 points 1 month ago (1 child) Smiths got all the tang. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] Kellenved@sh.itjust.works 3 points 1 month ago Seems many did not, but I did, see what you did there permalink fedilink source parent
[–] Kellenved@sh.itjust.works 3 points 1 month ago Seems many did not, but I did, see what you did there permalink fedilink source parent
[–] homes@piefed.world 3 points 1 month ago (1 child) Welcome to social Darwinism permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] teyrnon@sh.itjust.works 8 points 1 month ago (1 child) Social darwinism isn't that, although it's big with people of Netherlandian extraction, Calvinists. Social darwinism is the belief that everything is preordained, and if you are rich, god favors you, if poor, god hates you. It would be irresponsible to help the poor because god wants them to suffer, and so forth. Like the Prosperity Doctrine. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] homes@piefed.world 3 points 1 month ago (1 child) I was kidding permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] tdawg@lemmy.world 2 points 1 month ago Didn't someone tell you it's illegal to make jokes on Lemmy permalink fedilink source parent
[–] teyrnon@sh.itjust.works 8 points 1 month ago (1 child) Social darwinism isn't that, although it's big with people of Netherlandian extraction, Calvinists. Social darwinism is the belief that everything is preordained, and if you are rich, god favors you, if poor, god hates you. It would be irresponsible to help the poor because god wants them to suffer, and so forth. Like the Prosperity Doctrine. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] homes@piefed.world 3 points 1 month ago (1 child) I was kidding permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] tdawg@lemmy.world 2 points 1 month ago Didn't someone tell you it's illegal to make jokes on Lemmy permalink fedilink source parent
[–] homes@piefed.world 3 points 1 month ago (1 child) I was kidding permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] tdawg@lemmy.world 2 points 1 month ago Didn't someone tell you it's illegal to make jokes on Lemmy permalink fedilink source parent
[–] tdawg@lemmy.world 2 points 1 month ago Didn't someone tell you it's illegal to make jokes on Lemmy permalink fedilink source parent
[–] Vlhvhkctjxrhxv@ani.social 27 points 1 month ago* (5 children) Metalsmith, Blacksmith, Gunsmith, Goldsmith, Silversmith, Locksmith, Coppersmith, Tinsmith, Wordsmith, Songsmith permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 10 child comments replies: [–] aeronmelon@lemmy.world 16 points 1 month ago (1 child) “Hey, kids! It’s time for the PokeRap!” permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] AzuranAurora@piefed.ca 5 points 1 month ago Gonna, gonna, gonna forge 'em all. Gonna forge 'em all, Smithemon! permalink fedilink source parent [–] WhiskyTangoFoxtrot@lemmy.world 8 points 1 month ago Poopsmith permalink fedilink source parent [–] Akasazh@lemmy.world 3 points 1 month ago Whitesmith is also used permalink fedilink source parent [–] dejected_warp_core@lemmy.world 3 points 1 month ago (2 children) Also, a bunch of Wrights too: Cartwright, Wainwright, Shipwright, Wheelright, etc. Then there's just plain occupational names: Miller, Farmer, Thatcher, and so on. Had this tradition continued, the information age would have given us: Chipwright, Cloudwright, Videosmith, Hacksmith, Coder, Tester, Gamer, Printer, and probably a ton more. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 4 child comments replies: [–] merc@sh.itjust.works 9 points 1 month ago (1 child) I always found it fun to learn about these old timey professions that (basically) no longer exist, but still exist as names, like: Cooper: a craftsman who makes barrels, casks, etc., Hooper: an assistant to the cooper. Someone who put the hoops (bands of metal or wood) around the barrels. This one is especially good because coopers took over the job of putting the bands on, so the job died off while "cooper" still existed as a job, yet there are still people with that name Fuller / Walker: a person who softens and cleans wool, sometimes by walking on it, sometimes using the hands Clark: this one still exists, but is spelled and pronounced differently as "clerk". Turner: someone who operated a lathe. Basically a specialized machinist. Marshall: this is a fun one. Originally it had to do with horses, it was "mareshal", but then somehow evolved to be a high officer of the court, unrelated to "martial" which sounds the same but comes from "Mars" the god of war. Parker: The job exists now, but is more "park ranger" or just "ranger" Baxter: Baker -- but the feminine form of the word. Similarly "Webster" is the female form of "Weber" (Weaver), Brewster is the female version of Brewer, Spinster is the female form of Spinner, etc. Carter: someone who moves goods with a cart permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] FavouriteShapes@sh.itjust.works 1 point 1 month ago (1 child) Maybe "Marshalls" working for courts would set out on horses to round up runaways and bring them before the court. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] merc@sh.itjust.works 2 points 1 month ago "Court" I think, in this sense, was the king's court, not a judicial court. But, I think you're onto something about how it started as someone who took care of horses then probably evolved to being in charge of horses or something, to then being the official with the big job related to horses. I guess it's a bit like how "secretary" can be either a person making near minimum wage who does office work, or it can be the most powerful person in the cabinet who deals with X. permalink fedilink source parent [–] okwhateverdude@lemmy.world 3 points 1 month ago Man, sign me the fuck up for Hacksmith or Codewright. I'm all for nominative determinism like this permalink fedilink source parent [–] hakunawazo@lemmy.world 1 point 1 month ago* ...we didn't start the fire ♫♫ permalink fedilink source parent
[–] aeronmelon@lemmy.world 16 points 1 month ago (1 child) “Hey, kids! It’s time for the PokeRap!” permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] AzuranAurora@piefed.ca 5 points 1 month ago Gonna, gonna, gonna forge 'em all. Gonna forge 'em all, Smithemon! permalink fedilink source parent
[–] AzuranAurora@piefed.ca 5 points 1 month ago Gonna, gonna, gonna forge 'em all. Gonna forge 'em all, Smithemon! permalink fedilink source parent
[–] Akasazh@lemmy.world 3 points 1 month ago Whitesmith is also used permalink fedilink source parent
[–] dejected_warp_core@lemmy.world 3 points 1 month ago (2 children) Also, a bunch of Wrights too: Cartwright, Wainwright, Shipwright, Wheelright, etc. Then there's just plain occupational names: Miller, Farmer, Thatcher, and so on. Had this tradition continued, the information age would have given us: Chipwright, Cloudwright, Videosmith, Hacksmith, Coder, Tester, Gamer, Printer, and probably a ton more. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 4 child comments replies: [–] merc@sh.itjust.works 9 points 1 month ago (1 child) I always found it fun to learn about these old timey professions that (basically) no longer exist, but still exist as names, like: Cooper: a craftsman who makes barrels, casks, etc., Hooper: an assistant to the cooper. Someone who put the hoops (bands of metal or wood) around the barrels. This one is especially good because coopers took over the job of putting the bands on, so the job died off while "cooper" still existed as a job, yet there are still people with that name Fuller / Walker: a person who softens and cleans wool, sometimes by walking on it, sometimes using the hands Clark: this one still exists, but is spelled and pronounced differently as "clerk". Turner: someone who operated a lathe. Basically a specialized machinist. Marshall: this is a fun one. Originally it had to do with horses, it was "mareshal", but then somehow evolved to be a high officer of the court, unrelated to "martial" which sounds the same but comes from "Mars" the god of war. Parker: The job exists now, but is more "park ranger" or just "ranger" Baxter: Baker -- but the feminine form of the word. Similarly "Webster" is the female form of "Weber" (Weaver), Brewster is the female version of Brewer, Spinster is the female form of Spinner, etc. Carter: someone who moves goods with a cart permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] FavouriteShapes@sh.itjust.works 1 point 1 month ago (1 child) Maybe "Marshalls" working for courts would set out on horses to round up runaways and bring them before the court. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] merc@sh.itjust.works 2 points 1 month ago "Court" I think, in this sense, was the king's court, not a judicial court. But, I think you're onto something about how it started as someone who took care of horses then probably evolved to being in charge of horses or something, to then being the official with the big job related to horses. I guess it's a bit like how "secretary" can be either a person making near minimum wage who does office work, or it can be the most powerful person in the cabinet who deals with X. permalink fedilink source parent [–] okwhateverdude@lemmy.world 3 points 1 month ago Man, sign me the fuck up for Hacksmith or Codewright. I'm all for nominative determinism like this permalink fedilink source parent
[–] merc@sh.itjust.works 9 points 1 month ago (1 child) I always found it fun to learn about these old timey professions that (basically) no longer exist, but still exist as names, like: Cooper: a craftsman who makes barrels, casks, etc., Hooper: an assistant to the cooper. Someone who put the hoops (bands of metal or wood) around the barrels. This one is especially good because coopers took over the job of putting the bands on, so the job died off while "cooper" still existed as a job, yet there are still people with that name Fuller / Walker: a person who softens and cleans wool, sometimes by walking on it, sometimes using the hands Clark: this one still exists, but is spelled and pronounced differently as "clerk". Turner: someone who operated a lathe. Basically a specialized machinist. Marshall: this is a fun one. Originally it had to do with horses, it was "mareshal", but then somehow evolved to be a high officer of the court, unrelated to "martial" which sounds the same but comes from "Mars" the god of war. Parker: The job exists now, but is more "park ranger" or just "ranger" Baxter: Baker -- but the feminine form of the word. Similarly "Webster" is the female form of "Weber" (Weaver), Brewster is the female version of Brewer, Spinster is the female form of Spinner, etc. Carter: someone who moves goods with a cart permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] FavouriteShapes@sh.itjust.works 1 point 1 month ago (1 child) Maybe "Marshalls" working for courts would set out on horses to round up runaways and bring them before the court. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] merc@sh.itjust.works 2 points 1 month ago "Court" I think, in this sense, was the king's court, not a judicial court. But, I think you're onto something about how it started as someone who took care of horses then probably evolved to being in charge of horses or something, to then being the official with the big job related to horses. I guess it's a bit like how "secretary" can be either a person making near minimum wage who does office work, or it can be the most powerful person in the cabinet who deals with X. permalink fedilink source parent
[–] FavouriteShapes@sh.itjust.works 1 point 1 month ago (1 child) Maybe "Marshalls" working for courts would set out on horses to round up runaways and bring them before the court. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] merc@sh.itjust.works 2 points 1 month ago "Court" I think, in this sense, was the king's court, not a judicial court. But, I think you're onto something about how it started as someone who took care of horses then probably evolved to being in charge of horses or something, to then being the official with the big job related to horses. I guess it's a bit like how "secretary" can be either a person making near minimum wage who does office work, or it can be the most powerful person in the cabinet who deals with X. permalink fedilink source parent
[–] merc@sh.itjust.works 2 points 1 month ago "Court" I think, in this sense, was the king's court, not a judicial court. But, I think you're onto something about how it started as someone who took care of horses then probably evolved to being in charge of horses or something, to then being the official with the big job related to horses. I guess it's a bit like how "secretary" can be either a person making near minimum wage who does office work, or it can be the most powerful person in the cabinet who deals with X. permalink fedilink source parent
[–] okwhateverdude@lemmy.world 3 points 1 month ago Man, sign me the fuck up for Hacksmith or Codewright. I'm all for nominative determinism like this permalink fedilink source parent
[–] hakunawazo@lemmy.world 1 point 1 month ago* ...we didn't start the fire ♫♫ permalink fedilink source parent
[–] dfyx@lemmy.helios42.de 20 points 1 month ago (1 child) Smiths and millers were common enough professions that basically every village had one but rare enough to be useful as a description. John the farmer would have been way too vague, leading to names that come from physical appearance, place of origin or relatives‘ given names. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] Tar_alcaran@sh.itjust.works 15 points 1 month ago (1 child) John the farmer would have been way too vague "De boer", or "the farmer" is the 10th most common surname in the Netherlands. Top three are "The young", "son of Jan" and "The Frisian". permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] cornshark@lemmy.world 8 points 1 month ago (1 child) Who's Jan permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] thethunderwolf@lemmy.dbzer0.com 5 points 1 month ago* ur mom (???) permalink fedilink source parent
[–] Tar_alcaran@sh.itjust.works 15 points 1 month ago (1 child) John the farmer would have been way too vague "De boer", or "the farmer" is the 10th most common surname in the Netherlands. Top three are "The young", "son of Jan" and "The Frisian". permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] cornshark@lemmy.world 8 points 1 month ago (1 child) Who's Jan permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] thethunderwolf@lemmy.dbzer0.com 5 points 1 month ago* ur mom (???) permalink fedilink source parent
[–] cornshark@lemmy.world 8 points 1 month ago (1 child) Who's Jan permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] thethunderwolf@lemmy.dbzer0.com 5 points 1 month ago* ur mom (???) permalink fedilink source parent
[–] thethunderwolf@lemmy.dbzer0.com 5 points 1 month ago* ur mom (???) permalink fedilink source parent
[–] Semi_Hemi_Demigod@lemmy.world 19 points 1 month ago (2 children) Smiths were generally wealthier so they had a better diet and what amounted to medical care, and they were rarely put in combat because they were needed to make weapons. So more of them survived. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 4 child comments replies: [–] schipelblorp@sh.itjust.works 16 points 1 month ago* (last edited 1 month ago) (1 child) [smiths] were rarely put in combat because they were needed to make weapons. So more of them survived. That's how it works for my dwarves, too. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] Nouvellalia@lemmy.world 10 points 1 month ago permalink fedilink source parent [–] teyrnon@sh.itjust.works 6 points 1 month ago (1 child) People in cthe middle ages in ciities were wealthier and healthier, and free. People in the country were slaves or tools of the local lords. City air makes you free they would say, cities were filled with free people, and run by guilds generally, smiths chief amongst them. Other cities were more merchant ruled chiefly. The nobility forever looked down on commerce, everything except agriculture and war generally. You couldn't just move into a city, you needed an in, like getting accepted as an apprentice in a guild. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] Semi_Hemi_Demigod@lemmy.world 5 points 1 month ago Totally true, and there were also smiths scattered around rural areas in small towns like mechanics today. permalink fedilink source parent
[–] schipelblorp@sh.itjust.works 16 points 1 month ago* (last edited 1 month ago) (1 child) [smiths] were rarely put in combat because they were needed to make weapons. So more of them survived. That's how it works for my dwarves, too. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] Nouvellalia@lemmy.world 10 points 1 month ago permalink fedilink source parent
[–] teyrnon@sh.itjust.works 6 points 1 month ago (1 child) People in cthe middle ages in ciities were wealthier and healthier, and free. People in the country were slaves or tools of the local lords. City air makes you free they would say, cities were filled with free people, and run by guilds generally, smiths chief amongst them. Other cities were more merchant ruled chiefly. The nobility forever looked down on commerce, everything except agriculture and war generally. You couldn't just move into a city, you needed an in, like getting accepted as an apprentice in a guild. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] Semi_Hemi_Demigod@lemmy.world 5 points 1 month ago Totally true, and there were also smiths scattered around rural areas in small towns like mechanics today. permalink fedilink source parent
[–] Semi_Hemi_Demigod@lemmy.world 5 points 1 month ago Totally true, and there were also smiths scattered around rural areas in small towns like mechanics today. permalink fedilink source parent
[–] StillAlive@piefed.world 9 points 1 month ago Smith be smithing tho permalink fedilink source parent
[–] FavouriteShapes@sh.itjust.works 1 point 1 month ago* I reckon the high prevalance of the Smith surname isn't really down to a highly smith-based economy, but because it was a quite respectable profession for both social classes - high paid, possibly self employed, talented/educated - but also useful strong and dependable. So if you have to choose between different surnames you might therefore go: "ah my parent was a smith so i can be a smith too" "my parent chose to use their smith parent's surname so i will choose it too because it gets respect" Or, maybe smiths always needed a lot of helpers and instead of taking the surname "Prentice/Prentiss" they would just go with Smith, as it's neater. Maybe those with some experience working a forge or shaping metal had more liberty to move to different towns for work; In a new town, locals who'd lived there their whole life wouldn't need an identifying surname (assuming this is pre-surname consolidation in Britain) but the Smiths would have that as a tradename, thus advertising their services. Presumably also, every town needed at least one local tinkerer or metalworker - there are/were like 10,000s of distinct villages all over England. So if we presume that tradespeople always have surnames of their trade and non-tradespeople (like farm labourers) don't usually feel a need to, The Smiths already have a greater share of the surnamed population in the census. Lastly, I'm guessing the smiths had a somewhat better quality of life in relation to disease and poverty. Possibly the hot forges kill off harmful bacteria and they had "middle class" income and no vulnerability to random agriculture failure, like farmers did. One reason why I don't think it's because "the king ordered loads and loads of people to become smiths during one particular war and we were left with an overabundance of Smiths" is because The high prevelance of the "Smith" surname is also observed in Germany, Spain, Poland and elsewhere. As Schmidt, Herrero and Kowalski, respectively. The more you know! permalink fedilink source parent