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Trump's letter to Prime Minister of Norway. If Americans could read, they'd be really embarrassed right now. (lemmy.ca)
submitted 6 months ago by to c/FuckTheUSA@lemmy.ca
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[–] 18 points 6 months ago (2 children)

iF yOuR nOT dOiNg oUr JOb fOR uS ThEn i dONt waNt tO kNOw

So it's the wage slaves in other countries which must sort out your internal affairs instead?

One of my governments is already staunchly anti-Trump. The other one, hundreds of miles away, doesn't listen to my region, which is why we have two governments in the first place. Am I to travel all the way from the north of Scotland to London because Americans can't keep their house in order? Is the rest of the world meant to do similar?

Americans have loudly and proudly derided other countries for decades. Claiming they're the best at everything, more freedom, more money, only country to have touched the moon, fuck yeah, than the rest of the world. The Land of the Brave. The Land of the Free. Freedom™. Freedom to carry weaponry on the off chance you have a tyrannical government that needs overthrown.

And yet we're the ones being told off for getting annoyed that we all must suffer because of your internal politics?

Do you not think other parts of the world have their own struggles to deal with? Their own political campaigns for/against various things?

This is an American problem to be dealt with by Americans.

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  • [–] 5 points 6 months ago (1 child)

    No fascist regime has ever been replaced without foreign intervention, and no revolution has ever been successful without international support...

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  • [–] 3 points 6 months ago (1 child)

    Dictators have been overthrown without that kind of help hundreds of times in history. Why shoehorn the usa into some 'fascist only club'?

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  • [–] 1 point 6 months ago (1 child)

    Mind naming a few, or just going to make vague claims?

    Also, the US government is currently being run by a "fascists only club," so I don't know what you mean by shoehorning...

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  • [–] 1 point 6 months ago (1 child)

    Louis 16.

    I mean you must be arguing in bad faith here, it's not that because trump&co are fascists you have to find another fascist that got overthrown in some specific way. Also they have been around only for a century. They can be overthrown like any other dictator.

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  • [–] 1 point 6 months ago (1 child)

    The french revolution had US support, if not materially, then at least with the sympathies of Thomas Jefferson as Secretary of State giving them legitimacy.

    In any case, the material realities of the french revolution are not comparable to the situation in the US today. The proletariat isn't unified, and the technological disparities are too immense.

    Your paragraph is so vaguely worded that I can't even figure out what point you're trying to make, so if anyone's arguing in bad faith it's you. Besides, who's only been around for a century? The US has been around for two and a half centuries; trumpism has only been around a little over a decade. The deplorable slurry of McCarthyism and Reaganomics that composes the modern Republican Party hasn't been around for quite a century.

    I suppose you mean fascism? Fascism has been around about a century now. Is that what you mean? Because this is a unique variant of fascism; it definitely has all the fundamental characteristics, but with about a century of careful planning, implementation, propagandization, and indoctrination, along with some considerable leaps in technological development which can't be ignored.

    They can be overthrown like any other dictator.

    You mean like Hitler and Mussolini? Because it took an alliance of the world's biggest military superpowers attacking from multiple fronts to depose them, which still might not have been successful if they hadn't made a few critical strategic miscalculations such as overextending their own capabilities while underestimating the capabilities of the Allied powers.

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  • [–] 1 point 6 months ago (1 child)

    So purposefully misunderstanding and moving goalpossts "at least jefferson had symphaties" is not something validating your claims.

    I wonder what you are even trying to convey. That usa cannot topple trump without external help (you got a lot of people sympathise with the idea and that seems to be enough for you)? Or are you just arguing for arguments sake?

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  • [–] 1 point 6 months ago (1 child)

    I didn't move any goalposts. I said

    no revolution has ever been successful without international support

    If you think a revolution can be successful without gaining recognition and legitimacy on the international stage, then you're living in a fantasy world. The difference between "freedom fighters toppling a dictatorial regime" and "rebel insurgents destroying civic order" is the perception and approval of the international community.

    By "international community" I'm not just talking about "every average ordinary civilian" in other countries; I'm talking about the military and diplomatic powers of the world. You can't build a new country/government from the ground up without their approval, and if you think otherwise then you need to put your nose back in some books.

    And no, a lot of people sympathizing with the idea isn't enough either. That helps with rebuilding after ousting the dictator, and it helps maintain a movement long enough to accomplish that goal, but it doesn't solve the technological disparities between a hypothetical civilian militia and the federal government's militarized police force, let alone the actual military. Even the state guards wouldn't hold up long against the full force of the US military; the only possible path to victory would be if it somehow miraculously remained between state guards and federal militarized police forces.

    But you don't know anything about the logistics of war, let alone the politics of it, so you don't know what I'm trying to convey and think I'm just arguing for the sake of arguing? I'm arguing because I don't want to see the entire american left get absolutely steamrolled, which is what would happen if full-scale war were to break out at this time.

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  • [+] -10 points 6 months ago (2 children)

    One of my governments is already staunchly anti-Trump.

    Neat, what have they actually fucking done? They could freeze/sieze the assets of any of the fascists backing this regime at any time. They could issue arrest warrants for any of these republican congressmen doing their fascist world tours. They could shut down access to captured American social media platforms. Are they doing any of that? Because they could sign a piece of paper and have those checked off by tomorrow.

    Am I to travel all the way from the north of Scotland to London

    😂😂😂😂😂 It's 40 hours minimum for the 4 million people in Los Angeles to reach Washington DC. Or are Americans supposed to get a critical mass of opposition to the Capitol on commercial flights; just checking their torches and pitchforks before takeoff?

    But a ten hour trip to London is too much? Couldn't be bothered to take a weekend flight and spend <$150 to make a physical display of your displeasure?

    Americans have loudly and proudly...

    Beautiful straw man you've got there. Too bad the 90% of the country that doesn't watch fox news hasn't held anything close to those opinions for 30+ years. You can just look this shit up, we live in 2026.

    And yet we're the ones being told off for getting annoyed that we all must suffer because of your internal politics?

    And yet I'm the one who has to untangle the decades of hyper-dependence your milquetoast neolib governments have built up around a crumbling USA? I don't have more pressing concerns? I should put the physical safety and wellbeing of my local community aside because it's becoming concerning for you?

    This is an American problem to be dealt with by Americans.

    If it was you wouldn't be replying

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  • [–] 16 points 6 months ago (1 child)

    No wonder your country is fucked.

    The arrogant, self obsessed, cultural and historical ignorance is astounding.

    I try not to prejudge or stereotype people but Americans make it really fucking difficult sometimes. Y'all so often think other people of the world have never interacted with any of you before. That we've not grown up with your culture shoved into our faces along with our own. That we've not witnessed your politics, both foreign and domestic, as much as you have.

    We've witnessed your atrocities, we've seen your population do nothing. We've seen your obsession with money, power, guns, and greed. Not every American, obviously, but enough of you that as a nation that is what you are known for. We've seen your multiple wars. We've seen your complicity in genocide. We've seen your population at large do fuck all. We've seen the slow and painfully obvious descent into fascism and your population at large continuing about their day as if nothing is wrong.

    We all have issues. Many country's issues are even caused by your country. Many country's issues are worse than yours. Why would we deal with yours before our own?

    This is internal American politics. Unless you want to be invaded, this is an American problem for Americans to deal with.

    Is it shit? Absofuckinglutely. But life is shit for many around the world. America has been largely insulated from that, and now that you're experiencing it firsthand you expect the world to come running? Good fucking luck.

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  • [+] -13 points 6 months ago (2 children)

    You're one hundred percent free to take that position, but it's not arrogance when half this thread is Europeans looking down their nose as if they have any fucking clue what's happening in the USA today. Spare me the lectures if it's an internal problem.

    I don't want to read a single comment panicking over a Trump tweet or letter. I don't want any more debates with EU commenters pretending they know the US constitution, laws, election process, or insitutional corruption better than I do. I don't want to hear from anyone who's reading headlines from halfway around the world and dismissing my experiences ("just do something"). I don't wanna hear shit from any armchair revolutionaries living in countries where the police can't even carry pepper spray.

    If you all can't agree to do that then see my original comment: fuck off and take your own political initiative. Maybe you'll start to understand why this isn't some inconvenient internal problem when the largest military in the world is blockading your ports and kidnapping your leaders. "Good fucking luck"

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  • [–] 10 points 6 months ago* (1 child)

    Maybe you shouldn't come into a community called FuckTheUSA then...

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  • [+] -11 points 6 months ago (1 child)

    Maybe "FuckTheUSA" should be something besides hand-wringing and lectures. Clearly you're not committed to the cause if you're complaining about me pointing out tangible, real world actions they can take to "fuck the USA"

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  • [–] 3 points 6 months ago (1 child)

    I don't want to hear from anyone who's reading headlines from halfway around the world and dismissing my experiences ("just do something")

    Once again Rules for Thee, Not for Me.

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  • [–] 0 points 6 months ago* (1 child)

    ???

    I'm not the one who's commenting "[Americans/Europeans/Canadians] are all cowards" like some people in this thread. I am not denying that there are people who are pushing for real political action in other countries.

    What I am doing is calling out specific users painting 340 million people with a broad brush while remaining completely silent on their own country. Somehow they're allowed to give unchecked criticism on "internal USA problems" while not even touching the subject of what they can personally ask their country to do to "FuckTheUSA".

    Somehow taking the basic precaution of not associating my real world resistance with what I post on this platform automatically makes me a complacent sheep. What the hell is stopping anyone outside the USA from telling us what they're doing about the march of fascism led by the US federal government? If it's not pressing enough to take your own political initiative then why are you commenting?

    The only answer I've gotten is "my life is hard and it's Your Problem to solve". Fair enough, then refrain from making comments in the same way I don't make comments on the state of EU politics.

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  • [–] 1 point 6 months ago (1 child)

    What I am doing is calling out specific users painting 340 million people with a broad brush while remaining completely silent on their own country.

    Somehow taking the basic precaution of not associating my real world resistance with what I post on this platform automatically makes me a complacent sheep.

    Do you not see it?

    the same way I don't make comments on the state of EU politics.

    You mean like

    touching the subject of what they can personally ask their country to do to "FuckTheUSA".

    You're literally ranting at people complaining that they are doing the thing that you then proceeded to do yourself. It's okay when you do or don't do something, but that doesn't extend to anyone beyond yourself.

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  • [–] -1 points 6 months ago* (1 child)

    Your reading comprehension is really lacking. These are replies pointing out the hypocrisy of the people in this thread. Look at the original post ffs, painting 340 million people as illiterate and then getting defensive when I ask wtf they're doing that gives them the right to say that. If you can't understand the difference between those comments or the context of this post that's on you.

    "oh but it's FuckTheUSA, we're allowed to say stupid tribal shit"

    Like fuck you are, tell me what gives you the right? It's the paradox of tolerance on full display.

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  • [–] 1 point 6 months ago (1 child)

    Right, you got all defensive when they asked what Americans are doing, then complain that they got all defensive when you asked what they are doing. It's the exact same thing but for some reason it's okay when you do and unacceptable if someone else does it.

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  • [–] 0 points 6 months ago (1 child)

    Yeah if someone walks up and says you're a piece of shit and everyone you know is an illiterate coward you're allowed to be defensive and ask who tf they think they are. That's how the world works. It's not "exactly the same thing" at all

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  • [–] 1 point 6 months ago* (1 child)

    you're allowed to be defensive

    You say this, and then you criticize them for being defensive.

    If someone walks up to you and says you're a piece of shit, responding with "You're a piece of shit! It's inappropriate to call people pieces of shit!" Does not actually improve the situation and is a little bizarre.

    Then you follow-up with criticizing them for being defensive after you called them a piece shit in return and it's just weird.

    And they didn't walk up to you. You went into the "Fuck the USA" community and are clutching your pearls that you heard someone say "Fuck the USA." What were you expecting to find here?

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  • [–] 1 point 6 months ago* (last edited 6 months ago)

    What is defensive about directing anger at a historically loathed and corrupt head of state unilaterally fucking up the world to 340 million people stuck under his jack boots? Who forced OP and others to do that? They don't deserve any criticism for such stupid statements?

    I assumed "fuck the USA" was a message about resistance to the fascist goons who have eroded the US federal government for decades and are enacting the same plan in countries all over the world. Turns out it's about fuck specifically everyone living in the USA.

    Just disregard the fact that these fascist fucks have killed, through direct action and policy, more US residents than just about any other country. Just scroll back 80 years through every milestone of fascists eroding our healthcare and social safety nets; millions of excess deaths from Covid; millions dead or in slavery from a broken criminal justice system; entrenching poverty to force people into the foreign oil war meat grinder; neglecting gun homicides and enflaming every drug crisis for profit; systematic racism and disenfranchisement; every step that undercut the pillars of our education and democracy.

    But nah, there's absolutely no room for nuance or a critical understanding of the conditions that caused this. We'll go back to the millenia old stance of tribalism: America must be bad because there's a lack of moral fiber that gets injected into you when you're born or gain your citizenship. Let's just dehumanize the other, call me orc or illiterate or whatever the fuck makes you feel good. Now you don't have to feel uncomfortable about your own politics or domestic affairs, problem solved.

    Fuck that, fuck you, nobody should be OK with people saying shit like that. But I'm not allowed to call that out because this is a jingoist safe space...

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  • [–] 6 points 6 months ago*

    but it’s not arrogance when half this thread is Europeans looking down their nose as if they have any fucking clue what’s happening in the USA today.

    Being arrogant in response to a perceived slight doesn't cancel out the arrogance.

    I'm not commenting on your response specifically I'm saying your argument here doesn't make any sense.

    Everyone has a constant feed on what's happening in America, not just the news and propaganda outlets but the direct social media reports of thousands of day to day people.

    I don’t want to read a single comment panicking over a Trump tweet or letter. I don’t want any more debates with EU commenters pretending they know the US constitution, laws, election process, or insitutional corruption better than I do.

    That's easily solvable, don't hang out in a space called "FuckTheUSA", it's like a vegan being offended by meat preparation after making a reservation and walking in to "BIG JOE'S 100% REAL STEAKHOUSE AND BURGERS".

    Probably best to avoid all of the topics that are very obviously things you don't want to see the comments on.

    Living in a country gives you lived experience, it's doesn't automatically grant you intellectual superiority on "US constitution, laws, election process, or insitutional corruption" , if that was the case, those voting percentages would be different.

    I don’t want to hear from anyone who’s reading headlines from halfway around the world and dismissing my experiences (“just do something”). I don’t wanna hear shit from any armchair revolutionaries living in countries where the police can’t even carry pepper spray.

    AFAICT nobody in this thread has said you personally should be doing anything above and beyond the normal voting and campaigning you'd normally do ( i could have missed it, feel free to link any missed statements ).

    A great deal of police forces are allowed to carry pepper spray ( or some other form of non-lethal ), many of them also have access to firearms, though obviously not at the scale of the USA I'm sure if we had a senile despot funding a force of untrained bigoted assholes to go out and feel good about themselves, they'd open up that access pretty quickly.

    Also, and i don't mean this as an attack, unless you are actually out there doing something tangible, that would also make you an "armchair revolutionary", albeit one immersed in the situation.

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