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[–] 85 points 1 year ago (6 children)

Most conservatives aren't really economically conservative. They too want police, schools, fire dept, infrastructure etc. to be well funded. There's just also a nebulous idea that "government wastes money" and they don't want their taxes taken.

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  • [–] 28 points 1 year ago (5 children)

    My conservative former friend said he would never vote for any tax for any reason.

    Crazy, but true. No he didnt want anything well funded.

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  • [–] 15 points 1 year ago (2 children)

    One of the rallying cries of the Republican party that persuaded so many over the decades has always been fiscal responsibility and tax cuts. They have spent decades persuading voters that paying taxes is a terrible thing. They have claimed that bureaucracy is slow and wasteful. That the taxes people paid have been misappropriated. They have corrupted one of the most important things that a citizen can do for its nation. Pay taxes.

    Paying taxes should be seen as a prideful act. This small action provides us with innumerable benefits that every single one of us benefits from.

    The voting public has been lied to in an attempt to convince them they don't receive anything from the taxes they pay. This, as most people should recognize, is a falsehood. From the roads we drive on, the water we drink, and the sewage that gets washed away to the security net that allows millions of Americans to retire every year. Taxes are the foundation that has allowed us to become the strong and comfortable nation that we are.

    Taxes are the reason we have such a strong military that many Republicans idolize (while many others denounce.) Taxes are the reason we almost every child in this country has at least a cursory education. Taxes are the reason so many can pursue the careers that keep us safe and healthy, like every single doctor, nurse, and everyone else that helps and support them. Taxes are the reason your community has playgrounds for your children. Taxes are the reason so many farmers even have an income at all.

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  • [–] 1 point 1 year ago*

    they been brainwashed that tax cuts to corporations are the only one that matters, because it will give them jobs. i visited r/con early on in his 1st term, it was funny how they mentally gymanstically justify it.

    and that the middleclass- well off people not rich think they are getting a deal by having no income taxes in states like nevada, so some moved there and it turns out it has shit education and medical facilities,or none at all(i once followed a poc youtuber that did this) and next to no cultural community according to your race. oh at the same time railing on california, because of its "woke" policies, but your business depends on californias going to your stupid channel.

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  • [–] 9 points 1 year ago* (1 child)

    Crazy, but true. No he didnt want anything well funded.

    That's what he says... But does he drive on public roads? Does he use bridges? Does his residence have access to clean water and a functioning sewer? Etc. etc.

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  • [–] 3 points 1 year ago (2 children)

    There are some peculiar branches of libertarian thinkers (Stephen Molyneux being a prime example) that think nothing should be government/tax funded, up to and including e.g. roads. He reasons private companies should build them, and make them all toll roads, or find some other way to recoup the costs.

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  • [–] 17 points 1 year ago (2 children)

    It comes down to a fundamental lack of empathy. It's "why should I pay for schools if I don't have any kids" writ large.

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  • [–] 12 points 1 year ago (1 child)

    “why should I pay for schools if I don’t have any kids”

    so that illiterate gangs don't break into your house to steal your shit or kidnap you.

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  • [–] 13 points 1 year ago (2 children)

    Honestly it's a pretty clever scam by conservatives. Run on a platform of big government is inept, wasting your money, we need to reduce spending and reduce taxes! Once in office, do nothing. Sabotage functional government. Obstruct long term projects. Now you have things to point to as proof that big government is bad and does nothing, because you were the big government and made sure nothing happens.

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  • [–] 6 points 1 year ago

    Yup, standard fascist procedure. All the Nazi parties in Europe want to be elected to the European Parliament with the very publicly expressed goal of breaking it from the inside to prove that European unity and globalism don't work.

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  • [–] 0 points 1 year ago (2 children)

    if you want police funded I'm afraid you're just a conservative as well. that's a mainstream socially conservative opinion.

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  • [–] 15 points 1 year ago (3 children)

    I'm not against the existence of a police force, but I am against what we have now. (USA)

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  • [–] -2 points 1 year ago (2 children)

    so, reformism? that's also conservative IMO

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  • [–] 5 points 1 year ago (1 child)

    Mob justice is considered uncivilized for many reasons. There does need to be some sort of enforcement group of laws.

    They should actually be educated on the law, "deescalation", and put people over property.

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  • [–] -4 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (2 children)

    police is the definition of mob justice. the police is the armed wing of the state, and solely exists to keep exploitation viable.

    ironically, there would be no need for "deescalation" if the state didn't exist because each community could just live peacefully based on mutual aid. once mutual aid gets too popular in a capitalist society, that's when the cops show up to prevent the usurpation of state dominion over all living beings.

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  • [–] 7 points 1 year ago (2 children)

    And as soon as we can trust everybody to respect each other, that would be a fantastic system. But, unfortunately, there are pieces of shit who will take any opportunity they can to hurt others. Removing all law enforcement will give those people a free pass, and encourage others to do the same

    Makes me think of Team America. Cops are dicks, but criminals are assholes. If you don't get the reference, look it up. It's a fun analogy.

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  • [–] -4 points 1 year ago*

    there are pieces of shit who will take any opportunity they can to hurt others.

    Yeah they're called cops. They've enforced a racist system for centuries. They violently attack people so they can be tortured in cages.

    Makes me think of Team America.

    Yes, you sound like a crappy brainwashed cartoon for adult babies.

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  • [–] -4 points 1 year ago (1 child)

    even if you believe that humans are inherently violent and untrustworthy (white supremacist propaganda), that would be an argument against more hierarchy and deputizing state violence not for police existing.

    frankly it sounds like you don't have lived experience with what it is that police actually do.

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  • [–] 4 points 1 year ago (1 child)

    Your comments are especially humorous because you are WAY off.

    I've been through the system. Long story short, I asked how to answer a question on a government form, I did what I was told, and I faced fraud charges. The cops fucked me, my defender fucked me, and the judge fucked me. I have NO faith in the system as it is.

    You want to talk about being naive. Are you REALLY trying to tell me that if there was no law enforcement, that everybody would just start being nice to each other? How? Like for real, explain to me the rationale behind that.

    I'm totally on your side. Fuck the police. A key lesson I taught my kids is NEVER talk to cops. Period.

    Lawless anarchy won't work either. Those power hungry people who WOULD have become cops just to bully people, are just going to do it without a badge, and we'd find ourselves in a modern wild west. Whoever has the gun, will make the rules. Even the facade of regulation we have now would be gone.

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  • [–] -3 points 1 year ago* (1 child)

    Those power hungry people who WOULD have become cops just to bully people, are just going to do it without a badge, and we'd find ourselves in a modern wild west. Whoever has the gun, will make the rules. Even the facade of regulation we have now would be gone.

    I'm not trying to be rude but this is exactly what's happening rn in the US with ICE agents and their mercenaries.

    they're not able to commit the deportations because of a lack of law enforcement, but because laws are inherently racist. this shit started before Trump took power during a "progressive" presidency like Obama's. most people would probably agree he was following the rules of democracy yet he deported the most people.

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  • [–] 3 points 1 year ago (1 child)

    Relevance? Two thirds of my last comment was complaining about how fucked the system is. You don't have to convince me of that. But, what you haven't told me is how a world without ANY law enforcement works.

    Tell me how serial rapists are dealt with in your lawless world.

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  • [–] -1 points 1 year ago* (1 child)

    no laws doesn't mean no community values. victims either kill their rapist in self-defense or we all gather together to beat the rapist with a stick.

    if they hold any position of power, they'd be banned from office forever and stripped of any social capital. if they try to contact their victims again, they're exiled.

    but most importantly, we should ask the victim what they want, short of the death penalty or torture.

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  • [–] 2 points 1 year ago (1 child)

    Too bad your entire justice system falls apart when I add one tiny detail: a ski mask.

    She doesn't know who this guy is, so now what?

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  • [–] -1 points 1 year ago (1 child)

    yeah, you're arguing in bad faith. why would a rapist need a ski mask when most rapes happen in the workplace, in the family or by intimate partners?

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  • [–] 2 points 1 year ago

    Interesting that in your world no rapist would ever think of that, but even if we pretend a woman always knows her rapist, what's your solution for roofies? That's a thing, woman wakes up battered no memory. Who does she tell? Who looks for this guy?

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  • [+] 0 points 1 year ago (1 child)
  • [–] 6 points 1 year ago (1 child)

    Id actually argue the majority of people are inherently good but something needs to constrain the minority of the inherently "bad".

    I'm arguing for massive reform so don't @me about what is when we're arguing about what should be. I've had enough lived experience as a melanated individual. I've also seen what mob justice does-while a last resort when justice is otherwise obstructed it should not be the first line when it gets things wrong so often (see lynchings).

    Policing's past as slave catchers and continued existence whereby they protect property over people is not what law enforcement should be. However, no matter what society you make there are individuals who will break laws in both minor and major ways. A lot of criminality is a result of socioeconomics but not all and there needs to be a way to enforce punishment on those exceptions in an equitable way.

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  • [–] -4 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (1 child)

    sorrry, I deleted that lived experience comment because I meant to @ Ryhnoplaz not you.

    so we both agree that lynchings are bad. i fail to see how police still existing helps in any way?

    the same mechanisms that deputize white people to kill Black people are what leads to justifications of the police existing. the way to solve that is through abolishing hierarchies not by creating more. Black people should have an unconditional right to self-defense against racists and the police still existing is a way to prevent that. their argument is that taking justice in your own hands is harmful because white people/cops always know better than the victim.

    also why do we need law enforcement in the first place? the law is inherently arbitrary and is used to criminalize people stealing food to survive and many such things. i think there needs to be a distinction between crime and harm. some crimes are harmless like distributing food and water while some harmful actions like wage theft are not de facto crimes.

    lastly, I'd be curious to find out which criminalities you believe aren't caused by socioeconomic factors? i don't see how you could argue for that besides appealing to the human nature fallacy.

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  • [–] 2 points 1 year ago

    I mean crimes of passion would be the simplest example.

    Some heirarchy is inherent in society. It can be as simple as a farmer making better cheese than their neighbor. Now they keep more and people who know it is better and like cheese are more willing to give more for it. Now the better cheese maker has more than his neighbor. That inequality is a base for hierarchy. There's no human nature involved in generating that hierarchy besides better cheese and cheese lovers.

    You keep talking about police as they are-that is a strawman I ain't arguing for. In any society however, there remains a need for enforcement of those societal laws. Unjust laws/enforcement are not an argument against laws or enforcement entirely just that laws and enforcement should be made just.

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  • [–] -3 points 1 year ago (1 child)

    What do you think the difference is? You been watching too much Paw Patrol?

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  • [–] 7 points 1 year ago

    THe biggest difference is “qualified immunity” somehow turning into blanket immunity, followed closely by no duty to “protect and serve”. Paw Patrol takes its duty seriously, and rewards the strength of character to do the right thing and to take responsibility for their actions.

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  • [–] 1 point 1 year ago

    Disagree - someone has to deal with emergencies and investigate crimes, and I'd rather it was someone trained to do so.

    But I would like to see them split up into different agencies with different responsibilities, so it's not armed meatheads dealing with every social disturbance

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