▲ 366 ▼ r/conservative is a fucking circus but once in a while, I laugh my ass off (discuss.online) submitted 1 year ago by bytesonbike@discuss.online to c/reddit@lemmy.world 63 comments fedilink hide all child comments
[–] amino@lemmy.blahaj.zone -2 points 1 year ago (2 children) so, reformism? that's also conservative IMO permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 4 child comments replies: [–] prole@lemmy.blahaj.zone 8 points 1 year ago So "Defund the Police" is a conservative movement? Huh... Also, do you realize that "reform" and "conserve" are nearly polar opposites? permalink fedilink source parent [–] phdepressed@sh.itjust.works 5 points 1 year ago (1 child) Mob justice is considered uncivilized for many reasons. There does need to be some sort of enforcement group of laws. They should actually be educated on the law, "deescalation", and put people over property. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] amino@lemmy.blahaj.zone -4 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (2 children) police is the definition of mob justice. the police is the armed wing of the state, and solely exists to keep exploitation viable. ironically, there would be no need for "deescalation" if the state didn't exist because each community could just live peacefully based on mutual aid. once mutual aid gets too popular in a capitalist society, that's when the cops show up to prevent the usurpation of state dominion over all living beings. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 4 child comments replies: [–] Rhynoplaz@lemmy.world 7 points 1 year ago (2 children) And as soon as we can trust everybody to respect each other, that would be a fantastic system. But, unfortunately, there are pieces of shit who will take any opportunity they can to hurt others. Removing all law enforcement will give those people a free pass, and encourage others to do the same Makes me think of Team America. Cops are dicks, but criminals are assholes. If you don't get the reference, look it up. It's a fun analogy. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 4 child comments replies: [–] amino@lemmy.blahaj.zone -4 points 1 year ago (1 child) even if you believe that humans are inherently violent and untrustworthy (white supremacist propaganda), that would be an argument against more hierarchy and deputizing state violence not for police existing. frankly it sounds like you don't have lived experience with what it is that police actually do. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] Rhynoplaz@lemmy.world 4 points 1 year ago (1 child) Your comments are especially humorous because you are WAY off. I've been through the system. Long story short, I asked how to answer a question on a government form, I did what I was told, and I faced fraud charges. The cops fucked me, my defender fucked me, and the judge fucked me. I have NO faith in the system as it is. You want to talk about being naive. Are you REALLY trying to tell me that if there was no law enforcement, that everybody would just start being nice to each other? How? Like for real, explain to me the rationale behind that. I'm totally on your side. Fuck the police. A key lesson I taught my kids is NEVER talk to cops. Period. Lawless anarchy won't work either. Those power hungry people who WOULD have become cops just to bully people, are just going to do it without a badge, and we'd find ourselves in a modern wild west. Whoever has the gun, will make the rules. Even the facade of regulation we have now would be gone. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] amino@lemmy.blahaj.zone -3 points 1 year ago* (1 child) Those power hungry people who WOULD have become cops just to bully people, are just going to do it without a badge, and we'd find ourselves in a modern wild west. Whoever has the gun, will make the rules. Even the facade of regulation we have now would be gone. I'm not trying to be rude but this is exactly what's happening rn in the US with ICE agents and their mercenaries. they're not able to commit the deportations because of a lack of law enforcement, but because laws are inherently racist. this shit started before Trump took power during a "progressive" presidency like Obama's. most people would probably agree he was following the rules of democracy yet he deported the most people. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] Rhynoplaz@lemmy.world 3 points 1 year ago (1 child) Relevance? Two thirds of my last comment was complaining about how fucked the system is. You don't have to convince me of that. But, what you haven't told me is how a world without ANY law enforcement works. Tell me how serial rapists are dealt with in your lawless world. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] amino@lemmy.blahaj.zone -1 points 1 year ago* (1 child) no laws doesn't mean no community values. victims either kill their rapist in self-defense or we all gather together to beat the rapist with a stick. if they hold any position of power, they'd be banned from office forever and stripped of any social capital. if they try to contact their victims again, they're exiled. but most importantly, we should ask the victim what they want, short of the death penalty or torture. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] Rhynoplaz@lemmy.world 2 points 1 year ago (1 child) Too bad your entire justice system falls apart when I add one tiny detail: a ski mask. She doesn't know who this guy is, so now what? permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] amino@lemmy.blahaj.zone -1 points 1 year ago (1 child) yeah, you're arguing in bad faith. why would a rapist need a ski mask when most rapes happen in the workplace, in the family or by intimate partners? permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] Rhynoplaz@lemmy.world 2 points 1 year ago Interesting that in your world no rapist would ever think of that, but even if we pretend a woman always knows her rapist, what's your solution for roofies? That's a thing, woman wakes up battered no memory. Who does she tell? Who looks for this guy? permalink fedilink source parent [–] technocrit@lemmy.dbzer0.com -4 points 1 year ago* there are pieces of shit who will take any opportunity they can to hurt others. Yeah they're called cops. They've enforced a racist system for centuries. They violently attack people so they can be tortured in cages. Makes me think of Team America. Yes, you sound like a crappy brainwashed cartoon for adult babies. permalink fedilink source parent [+] amino@lemmy.blahaj.zone 0 points 1 year ago (1 child) [deleted] permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] phdepressed@sh.itjust.works 6 points 1 year ago (1 child) Id actually argue the majority of people are inherently good but something needs to constrain the minority of the inherently "bad". I'm arguing for massive reform so don't @me about what is when we're arguing about what should be. I've had enough lived experience as a melanated individual. I've also seen what mob justice does-while a last resort when justice is otherwise obstructed it should not be the first line when it gets things wrong so often (see lynchings). Policing's past as slave catchers and continued existence whereby they protect property over people is not what law enforcement should be. However, no matter what society you make there are individuals who will break laws in both minor and major ways. A lot of criminality is a result of socioeconomics but not all and there needs to be a way to enforce punishment on those exceptions in an equitable way. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] amino@lemmy.blahaj.zone -4 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (1 child) sorrry, I deleted that lived experience comment because I meant to @ Ryhnoplaz not you. so we both agree that lynchings are bad. i fail to see how police still existing helps in any way? the same mechanisms that deputize white people to kill Black people are what leads to justifications of the police existing. the way to solve that is through abolishing hierarchies not by creating more. Black people should have an unconditional right to self-defense against racists and the police still existing is a way to prevent that. their argument is that taking justice in your own hands is harmful because white people/cops always know better than the victim. also why do we need law enforcement in the first place? the law is inherently arbitrary and is used to criminalize people stealing food to survive and many such things. i think there needs to be a distinction between crime and harm. some crimes are harmless like distributing food and water while some harmful actions like wage theft are not de facto crimes. lastly, I'd be curious to find out which criminalities you believe aren't caused by socioeconomic factors? i don't see how you could argue for that besides appealing to the human nature fallacy. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] phdepressed@sh.itjust.works 2 points 1 year ago I mean crimes of passion would be the simplest example. Some heirarchy is inherent in society. It can be as simple as a farmer making better cheese than their neighbor. Now they keep more and people who know it is better and like cheese are more willing to give more for it. Now the better cheese maker has more than his neighbor. That inequality is a base for hierarchy. There's no human nature involved in generating that hierarchy besides better cheese and cheese lovers. You keep talking about police as they are-that is a strawman I ain't arguing for. In any society however, there remains a need for enforcement of those societal laws. Unjust laws/enforcement are not an argument against laws or enforcement entirely just that laws and enforcement should be made just. permalink fedilink source parent
[–] prole@lemmy.blahaj.zone 8 points 1 year ago So "Defund the Police" is a conservative movement? Huh... Also, do you realize that "reform" and "conserve" are nearly polar opposites? permalink fedilink source parent
[–] phdepressed@sh.itjust.works 5 points 1 year ago (1 child) Mob justice is considered uncivilized for many reasons. There does need to be some sort of enforcement group of laws. They should actually be educated on the law, "deescalation", and put people over property. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] amino@lemmy.blahaj.zone -4 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (2 children) police is the definition of mob justice. the police is the armed wing of the state, and solely exists to keep exploitation viable. ironically, there would be no need for "deescalation" if the state didn't exist because each community could just live peacefully based on mutual aid. once mutual aid gets too popular in a capitalist society, that's when the cops show up to prevent the usurpation of state dominion over all living beings. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 4 child comments replies: [–] Rhynoplaz@lemmy.world 7 points 1 year ago (2 children) And as soon as we can trust everybody to respect each other, that would be a fantastic system. But, unfortunately, there are pieces of shit who will take any opportunity they can to hurt others. Removing all law enforcement will give those people a free pass, and encourage others to do the same Makes me think of Team America. Cops are dicks, but criminals are assholes. If you don't get the reference, look it up. It's a fun analogy. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 4 child comments replies: [–] amino@lemmy.blahaj.zone -4 points 1 year ago (1 child) even if you believe that humans are inherently violent and untrustworthy (white supremacist propaganda), that would be an argument against more hierarchy and deputizing state violence not for police existing. frankly it sounds like you don't have lived experience with what it is that police actually do. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] Rhynoplaz@lemmy.world 4 points 1 year ago (1 child) Your comments are especially humorous because you are WAY off. I've been through the system. Long story short, I asked how to answer a question on a government form, I did what I was told, and I faced fraud charges. The cops fucked me, my defender fucked me, and the judge fucked me. I have NO faith in the system as it is. You want to talk about being naive. Are you REALLY trying to tell me that if there was no law enforcement, that everybody would just start being nice to each other? How? Like for real, explain to me the rationale behind that. I'm totally on your side. Fuck the police. A key lesson I taught my kids is NEVER talk to cops. Period. Lawless anarchy won't work either. Those power hungry people who WOULD have become cops just to bully people, are just going to do it without a badge, and we'd find ourselves in a modern wild west. Whoever has the gun, will make the rules. Even the facade of regulation we have now would be gone. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] amino@lemmy.blahaj.zone -3 points 1 year ago* (1 child) Those power hungry people who WOULD have become cops just to bully people, are just going to do it without a badge, and we'd find ourselves in a modern wild west. Whoever has the gun, will make the rules. Even the facade of regulation we have now would be gone. I'm not trying to be rude but this is exactly what's happening rn in the US with ICE agents and their mercenaries. they're not able to commit the deportations because of a lack of law enforcement, but because laws are inherently racist. this shit started before Trump took power during a "progressive" presidency like Obama's. most people would probably agree he was following the rules of democracy yet he deported the most people. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] Rhynoplaz@lemmy.world 3 points 1 year ago (1 child) Relevance? Two thirds of my last comment was complaining about how fucked the system is. You don't have to convince me of that. But, what you haven't told me is how a world without ANY law enforcement works. Tell me how serial rapists are dealt with in your lawless world. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] amino@lemmy.blahaj.zone -1 points 1 year ago* (1 child) no laws doesn't mean no community values. victims either kill their rapist in self-defense or we all gather together to beat the rapist with a stick. if they hold any position of power, they'd be banned from office forever and stripped of any social capital. if they try to contact their victims again, they're exiled. but most importantly, we should ask the victim what they want, short of the death penalty or torture. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] Rhynoplaz@lemmy.world 2 points 1 year ago (1 child) Too bad your entire justice system falls apart when I add one tiny detail: a ski mask. She doesn't know who this guy is, so now what? permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] amino@lemmy.blahaj.zone -1 points 1 year ago (1 child) yeah, you're arguing in bad faith. why would a rapist need a ski mask when most rapes happen in the workplace, in the family or by intimate partners? permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] Rhynoplaz@lemmy.world 2 points 1 year ago Interesting that in your world no rapist would ever think of that, but even if we pretend a woman always knows her rapist, what's your solution for roofies? That's a thing, woman wakes up battered no memory. Who does she tell? Who looks for this guy? permalink fedilink source parent [–] technocrit@lemmy.dbzer0.com -4 points 1 year ago* there are pieces of shit who will take any opportunity they can to hurt others. Yeah they're called cops. They've enforced a racist system for centuries. They violently attack people so they can be tortured in cages. Makes me think of Team America. Yes, you sound like a crappy brainwashed cartoon for adult babies. permalink fedilink source parent [+] amino@lemmy.blahaj.zone 0 points 1 year ago (1 child) [deleted] permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] phdepressed@sh.itjust.works 6 points 1 year ago (1 child) Id actually argue the majority of people are inherently good but something needs to constrain the minority of the inherently "bad". I'm arguing for massive reform so don't @me about what is when we're arguing about what should be. I've had enough lived experience as a melanated individual. I've also seen what mob justice does-while a last resort when justice is otherwise obstructed it should not be the first line when it gets things wrong so often (see lynchings). Policing's past as slave catchers and continued existence whereby they protect property over people is not what law enforcement should be. However, no matter what society you make there are individuals who will break laws in both minor and major ways. A lot of criminality is a result of socioeconomics but not all and there needs to be a way to enforce punishment on those exceptions in an equitable way. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] amino@lemmy.blahaj.zone -4 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (1 child) sorrry, I deleted that lived experience comment because I meant to @ Ryhnoplaz not you. so we both agree that lynchings are bad. i fail to see how police still existing helps in any way? the same mechanisms that deputize white people to kill Black people are what leads to justifications of the police existing. the way to solve that is through abolishing hierarchies not by creating more. Black people should have an unconditional right to self-defense against racists and the police still existing is a way to prevent that. their argument is that taking justice in your own hands is harmful because white people/cops always know better than the victim. also why do we need law enforcement in the first place? the law is inherently arbitrary and is used to criminalize people stealing food to survive and many such things. i think there needs to be a distinction between crime and harm. some crimes are harmless like distributing food and water while some harmful actions like wage theft are not de facto crimes. lastly, I'd be curious to find out which criminalities you believe aren't caused by socioeconomic factors? i don't see how you could argue for that besides appealing to the human nature fallacy. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] phdepressed@sh.itjust.works 2 points 1 year ago I mean crimes of passion would be the simplest example. Some heirarchy is inherent in society. It can be as simple as a farmer making better cheese than their neighbor. Now they keep more and people who know it is better and like cheese are more willing to give more for it. Now the better cheese maker has more than his neighbor. That inequality is a base for hierarchy. There's no human nature involved in generating that hierarchy besides better cheese and cheese lovers. You keep talking about police as they are-that is a strawman I ain't arguing for. In any society however, there remains a need for enforcement of those societal laws. Unjust laws/enforcement are not an argument against laws or enforcement entirely just that laws and enforcement should be made just. permalink fedilink source parent
[–] amino@lemmy.blahaj.zone -4 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (2 children) police is the definition of mob justice. the police is the armed wing of the state, and solely exists to keep exploitation viable. ironically, there would be no need for "deescalation" if the state didn't exist because each community could just live peacefully based on mutual aid. once mutual aid gets too popular in a capitalist society, that's when the cops show up to prevent the usurpation of state dominion over all living beings. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 4 child comments replies: [–] Rhynoplaz@lemmy.world 7 points 1 year ago (2 children) And as soon as we can trust everybody to respect each other, that would be a fantastic system. But, unfortunately, there are pieces of shit who will take any opportunity they can to hurt others. Removing all law enforcement will give those people a free pass, and encourage others to do the same Makes me think of Team America. Cops are dicks, but criminals are assholes. If you don't get the reference, look it up. It's a fun analogy. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 4 child comments replies: [–] amino@lemmy.blahaj.zone -4 points 1 year ago (1 child) even if you believe that humans are inherently violent and untrustworthy (white supremacist propaganda), that would be an argument against more hierarchy and deputizing state violence not for police existing. frankly it sounds like you don't have lived experience with what it is that police actually do. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] Rhynoplaz@lemmy.world 4 points 1 year ago (1 child) Your comments are especially humorous because you are WAY off. I've been through the system. Long story short, I asked how to answer a question on a government form, I did what I was told, and I faced fraud charges. The cops fucked me, my defender fucked me, and the judge fucked me. I have NO faith in the system as it is. You want to talk about being naive. Are you REALLY trying to tell me that if there was no law enforcement, that everybody would just start being nice to each other? How? Like for real, explain to me the rationale behind that. I'm totally on your side. Fuck the police. A key lesson I taught my kids is NEVER talk to cops. Period. Lawless anarchy won't work either. Those power hungry people who WOULD have become cops just to bully people, are just going to do it without a badge, and we'd find ourselves in a modern wild west. Whoever has the gun, will make the rules. Even the facade of regulation we have now would be gone. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] amino@lemmy.blahaj.zone -3 points 1 year ago* (1 child) Those power hungry people who WOULD have become cops just to bully people, are just going to do it without a badge, and we'd find ourselves in a modern wild west. Whoever has the gun, will make the rules. Even the facade of regulation we have now would be gone. I'm not trying to be rude but this is exactly what's happening rn in the US with ICE agents and their mercenaries. they're not able to commit the deportations because of a lack of law enforcement, but because laws are inherently racist. this shit started before Trump took power during a "progressive" presidency like Obama's. most people would probably agree he was following the rules of democracy yet he deported the most people. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] Rhynoplaz@lemmy.world 3 points 1 year ago (1 child) Relevance? Two thirds of my last comment was complaining about how fucked the system is. You don't have to convince me of that. But, what you haven't told me is how a world without ANY law enforcement works. Tell me how serial rapists are dealt with in your lawless world. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] amino@lemmy.blahaj.zone -1 points 1 year ago* (1 child) no laws doesn't mean no community values. victims either kill their rapist in self-defense or we all gather together to beat the rapist with a stick. if they hold any position of power, they'd be banned from office forever and stripped of any social capital. if they try to contact their victims again, they're exiled. but most importantly, we should ask the victim what they want, short of the death penalty or torture. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] Rhynoplaz@lemmy.world 2 points 1 year ago (1 child) Too bad your entire justice system falls apart when I add one tiny detail: a ski mask. She doesn't know who this guy is, so now what? permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] amino@lemmy.blahaj.zone -1 points 1 year ago (1 child) yeah, you're arguing in bad faith. why would a rapist need a ski mask when most rapes happen in the workplace, in the family or by intimate partners? permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] Rhynoplaz@lemmy.world 2 points 1 year ago Interesting that in your world no rapist would ever think of that, but even if we pretend a woman always knows her rapist, what's your solution for roofies? That's a thing, woman wakes up battered no memory. Who does she tell? Who looks for this guy? permalink fedilink source parent [–] technocrit@lemmy.dbzer0.com -4 points 1 year ago* there are pieces of shit who will take any opportunity they can to hurt others. Yeah they're called cops. They've enforced a racist system for centuries. They violently attack people so they can be tortured in cages. Makes me think of Team America. Yes, you sound like a crappy brainwashed cartoon for adult babies. permalink fedilink source parent [+] amino@lemmy.blahaj.zone 0 points 1 year ago (1 child) [deleted] permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] phdepressed@sh.itjust.works 6 points 1 year ago (1 child) Id actually argue the majority of people are inherently good but something needs to constrain the minority of the inherently "bad". I'm arguing for massive reform so don't @me about what is when we're arguing about what should be. I've had enough lived experience as a melanated individual. I've also seen what mob justice does-while a last resort when justice is otherwise obstructed it should not be the first line when it gets things wrong so often (see lynchings). Policing's past as slave catchers and continued existence whereby they protect property over people is not what law enforcement should be. However, no matter what society you make there are individuals who will break laws in both minor and major ways. A lot of criminality is a result of socioeconomics but not all and there needs to be a way to enforce punishment on those exceptions in an equitable way. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] amino@lemmy.blahaj.zone -4 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (1 child) sorrry, I deleted that lived experience comment because I meant to @ Ryhnoplaz not you. so we both agree that lynchings are bad. i fail to see how police still existing helps in any way? the same mechanisms that deputize white people to kill Black people are what leads to justifications of the police existing. the way to solve that is through abolishing hierarchies not by creating more. Black people should have an unconditional right to self-defense against racists and the police still existing is a way to prevent that. their argument is that taking justice in your own hands is harmful because white people/cops always know better than the victim. also why do we need law enforcement in the first place? the law is inherently arbitrary and is used to criminalize people stealing food to survive and many such things. i think there needs to be a distinction between crime and harm. some crimes are harmless like distributing food and water while some harmful actions like wage theft are not de facto crimes. lastly, I'd be curious to find out which criminalities you believe aren't caused by socioeconomic factors? i don't see how you could argue for that besides appealing to the human nature fallacy. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] phdepressed@sh.itjust.works 2 points 1 year ago I mean crimes of passion would be the simplest example. Some heirarchy is inherent in society. It can be as simple as a farmer making better cheese than their neighbor. Now they keep more and people who know it is better and like cheese are more willing to give more for it. Now the better cheese maker has more than his neighbor. That inequality is a base for hierarchy. There's no human nature involved in generating that hierarchy besides better cheese and cheese lovers. You keep talking about police as they are-that is a strawman I ain't arguing for. In any society however, there remains a need for enforcement of those societal laws. Unjust laws/enforcement are not an argument against laws or enforcement entirely just that laws and enforcement should be made just. permalink fedilink source parent
[–] Rhynoplaz@lemmy.world 7 points 1 year ago (2 children) And as soon as we can trust everybody to respect each other, that would be a fantastic system. But, unfortunately, there are pieces of shit who will take any opportunity they can to hurt others. Removing all law enforcement will give those people a free pass, and encourage others to do the same Makes me think of Team America. Cops are dicks, but criminals are assholes. If you don't get the reference, look it up. It's a fun analogy. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 4 child comments replies: [–] amino@lemmy.blahaj.zone -4 points 1 year ago (1 child) even if you believe that humans are inherently violent and untrustworthy (white supremacist propaganda), that would be an argument against more hierarchy and deputizing state violence not for police existing. frankly it sounds like you don't have lived experience with what it is that police actually do. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] Rhynoplaz@lemmy.world 4 points 1 year ago (1 child) Your comments are especially humorous because you are WAY off. I've been through the system. Long story short, I asked how to answer a question on a government form, I did what I was told, and I faced fraud charges. The cops fucked me, my defender fucked me, and the judge fucked me. I have NO faith in the system as it is. You want to talk about being naive. Are you REALLY trying to tell me that if there was no law enforcement, that everybody would just start being nice to each other? How? Like for real, explain to me the rationale behind that. I'm totally on your side. Fuck the police. A key lesson I taught my kids is NEVER talk to cops. Period. Lawless anarchy won't work either. Those power hungry people who WOULD have become cops just to bully people, are just going to do it without a badge, and we'd find ourselves in a modern wild west. Whoever has the gun, will make the rules. Even the facade of regulation we have now would be gone. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] amino@lemmy.blahaj.zone -3 points 1 year ago* (1 child) Those power hungry people who WOULD have become cops just to bully people, are just going to do it without a badge, and we'd find ourselves in a modern wild west. Whoever has the gun, will make the rules. Even the facade of regulation we have now would be gone. I'm not trying to be rude but this is exactly what's happening rn in the US with ICE agents and their mercenaries. they're not able to commit the deportations because of a lack of law enforcement, but because laws are inherently racist. this shit started before Trump took power during a "progressive" presidency like Obama's. most people would probably agree he was following the rules of democracy yet he deported the most people. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] Rhynoplaz@lemmy.world 3 points 1 year ago (1 child) Relevance? Two thirds of my last comment was complaining about how fucked the system is. You don't have to convince me of that. But, what you haven't told me is how a world without ANY law enforcement works. Tell me how serial rapists are dealt with in your lawless world. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] amino@lemmy.blahaj.zone -1 points 1 year ago* (1 child) no laws doesn't mean no community values. victims either kill their rapist in self-defense or we all gather together to beat the rapist with a stick. if they hold any position of power, they'd be banned from office forever and stripped of any social capital. if they try to contact their victims again, they're exiled. but most importantly, we should ask the victim what they want, short of the death penalty or torture. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] Rhynoplaz@lemmy.world 2 points 1 year ago (1 child) Too bad your entire justice system falls apart when I add one tiny detail: a ski mask. She doesn't know who this guy is, so now what? permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] amino@lemmy.blahaj.zone -1 points 1 year ago (1 child) yeah, you're arguing in bad faith. why would a rapist need a ski mask when most rapes happen in the workplace, in the family or by intimate partners? permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] Rhynoplaz@lemmy.world 2 points 1 year ago Interesting that in your world no rapist would ever think of that, but even if we pretend a woman always knows her rapist, what's your solution for roofies? That's a thing, woman wakes up battered no memory. Who does she tell? Who looks for this guy? permalink fedilink source parent [–] technocrit@lemmy.dbzer0.com -4 points 1 year ago* there are pieces of shit who will take any opportunity they can to hurt others. Yeah they're called cops. They've enforced a racist system for centuries. They violently attack people so they can be tortured in cages. Makes me think of Team America. Yes, you sound like a crappy brainwashed cartoon for adult babies. permalink fedilink source parent
[–] amino@lemmy.blahaj.zone -4 points 1 year ago (1 child) even if you believe that humans are inherently violent and untrustworthy (white supremacist propaganda), that would be an argument against more hierarchy and deputizing state violence not for police existing. frankly it sounds like you don't have lived experience with what it is that police actually do. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] Rhynoplaz@lemmy.world 4 points 1 year ago (1 child) Your comments are especially humorous because you are WAY off. I've been through the system. Long story short, I asked how to answer a question on a government form, I did what I was told, and I faced fraud charges. The cops fucked me, my defender fucked me, and the judge fucked me. I have NO faith in the system as it is. You want to talk about being naive. Are you REALLY trying to tell me that if there was no law enforcement, that everybody would just start being nice to each other? How? Like for real, explain to me the rationale behind that. I'm totally on your side. Fuck the police. A key lesson I taught my kids is NEVER talk to cops. Period. Lawless anarchy won't work either. Those power hungry people who WOULD have become cops just to bully people, are just going to do it without a badge, and we'd find ourselves in a modern wild west. Whoever has the gun, will make the rules. Even the facade of regulation we have now would be gone. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] amino@lemmy.blahaj.zone -3 points 1 year ago* (1 child) Those power hungry people who WOULD have become cops just to bully people, are just going to do it without a badge, and we'd find ourselves in a modern wild west. Whoever has the gun, will make the rules. Even the facade of regulation we have now would be gone. I'm not trying to be rude but this is exactly what's happening rn in the US with ICE agents and their mercenaries. they're not able to commit the deportations because of a lack of law enforcement, but because laws are inherently racist. this shit started before Trump took power during a "progressive" presidency like Obama's. most people would probably agree he was following the rules of democracy yet he deported the most people. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] Rhynoplaz@lemmy.world 3 points 1 year ago (1 child) Relevance? Two thirds of my last comment was complaining about how fucked the system is. You don't have to convince me of that. But, what you haven't told me is how a world without ANY law enforcement works. Tell me how serial rapists are dealt with in your lawless world. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] amino@lemmy.blahaj.zone -1 points 1 year ago* (1 child) no laws doesn't mean no community values. victims either kill their rapist in self-defense or we all gather together to beat the rapist with a stick. if they hold any position of power, they'd be banned from office forever and stripped of any social capital. if they try to contact their victims again, they're exiled. but most importantly, we should ask the victim what they want, short of the death penalty or torture. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] Rhynoplaz@lemmy.world 2 points 1 year ago (1 child) Too bad your entire justice system falls apart when I add one tiny detail: a ski mask. She doesn't know who this guy is, so now what? permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] amino@lemmy.blahaj.zone -1 points 1 year ago (1 child) yeah, you're arguing in bad faith. why would a rapist need a ski mask when most rapes happen in the workplace, in the family or by intimate partners? permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] Rhynoplaz@lemmy.world 2 points 1 year ago Interesting that in your world no rapist would ever think of that, but even if we pretend a woman always knows her rapist, what's your solution for roofies? That's a thing, woman wakes up battered no memory. Who does she tell? Who looks for this guy? permalink fedilink source parent
[–] Rhynoplaz@lemmy.world 4 points 1 year ago (1 child) Your comments are especially humorous because you are WAY off. I've been through the system. Long story short, I asked how to answer a question on a government form, I did what I was told, and I faced fraud charges. The cops fucked me, my defender fucked me, and the judge fucked me. I have NO faith in the system as it is. You want to talk about being naive. Are you REALLY trying to tell me that if there was no law enforcement, that everybody would just start being nice to each other? How? Like for real, explain to me the rationale behind that. I'm totally on your side. Fuck the police. A key lesson I taught my kids is NEVER talk to cops. Period. Lawless anarchy won't work either. Those power hungry people who WOULD have become cops just to bully people, are just going to do it without a badge, and we'd find ourselves in a modern wild west. Whoever has the gun, will make the rules. Even the facade of regulation we have now would be gone. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] amino@lemmy.blahaj.zone -3 points 1 year ago* (1 child) Those power hungry people who WOULD have become cops just to bully people, are just going to do it without a badge, and we'd find ourselves in a modern wild west. Whoever has the gun, will make the rules. Even the facade of regulation we have now would be gone. I'm not trying to be rude but this is exactly what's happening rn in the US with ICE agents and their mercenaries. they're not able to commit the deportations because of a lack of law enforcement, but because laws are inherently racist. this shit started before Trump took power during a "progressive" presidency like Obama's. most people would probably agree he was following the rules of democracy yet he deported the most people. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] Rhynoplaz@lemmy.world 3 points 1 year ago (1 child) Relevance? Two thirds of my last comment was complaining about how fucked the system is. You don't have to convince me of that. But, what you haven't told me is how a world without ANY law enforcement works. Tell me how serial rapists are dealt with in your lawless world. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] amino@lemmy.blahaj.zone -1 points 1 year ago* (1 child) no laws doesn't mean no community values. victims either kill their rapist in self-defense or we all gather together to beat the rapist with a stick. if they hold any position of power, they'd be banned from office forever and stripped of any social capital. if they try to contact their victims again, they're exiled. but most importantly, we should ask the victim what they want, short of the death penalty or torture. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] Rhynoplaz@lemmy.world 2 points 1 year ago (1 child) Too bad your entire justice system falls apart when I add one tiny detail: a ski mask. She doesn't know who this guy is, so now what? permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] amino@lemmy.blahaj.zone -1 points 1 year ago (1 child) yeah, you're arguing in bad faith. why would a rapist need a ski mask when most rapes happen in the workplace, in the family or by intimate partners? permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] Rhynoplaz@lemmy.world 2 points 1 year ago Interesting that in your world no rapist would ever think of that, but even if we pretend a woman always knows her rapist, what's your solution for roofies? That's a thing, woman wakes up battered no memory. Who does she tell? Who looks for this guy? permalink fedilink source parent
[–] amino@lemmy.blahaj.zone -3 points 1 year ago* (1 child) Those power hungry people who WOULD have become cops just to bully people, are just going to do it without a badge, and we'd find ourselves in a modern wild west. Whoever has the gun, will make the rules. Even the facade of regulation we have now would be gone. I'm not trying to be rude but this is exactly what's happening rn in the US with ICE agents and their mercenaries. they're not able to commit the deportations because of a lack of law enforcement, but because laws are inherently racist. this shit started before Trump took power during a "progressive" presidency like Obama's. most people would probably agree he was following the rules of democracy yet he deported the most people. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] Rhynoplaz@lemmy.world 3 points 1 year ago (1 child) Relevance? Two thirds of my last comment was complaining about how fucked the system is. You don't have to convince me of that. But, what you haven't told me is how a world without ANY law enforcement works. Tell me how serial rapists are dealt with in your lawless world. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] amino@lemmy.blahaj.zone -1 points 1 year ago* (1 child) no laws doesn't mean no community values. victims either kill their rapist in self-defense or we all gather together to beat the rapist with a stick. if they hold any position of power, they'd be banned from office forever and stripped of any social capital. if they try to contact their victims again, they're exiled. but most importantly, we should ask the victim what they want, short of the death penalty or torture. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] Rhynoplaz@lemmy.world 2 points 1 year ago (1 child) Too bad your entire justice system falls apart when I add one tiny detail: a ski mask. She doesn't know who this guy is, so now what? permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] amino@lemmy.blahaj.zone -1 points 1 year ago (1 child) yeah, you're arguing in bad faith. why would a rapist need a ski mask when most rapes happen in the workplace, in the family or by intimate partners? permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] Rhynoplaz@lemmy.world 2 points 1 year ago Interesting that in your world no rapist would ever think of that, but even if we pretend a woman always knows her rapist, what's your solution for roofies? That's a thing, woman wakes up battered no memory. Who does she tell? Who looks for this guy? permalink fedilink source parent
[–] Rhynoplaz@lemmy.world 3 points 1 year ago (1 child) Relevance? Two thirds of my last comment was complaining about how fucked the system is. You don't have to convince me of that. But, what you haven't told me is how a world without ANY law enforcement works. Tell me how serial rapists are dealt with in your lawless world. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] amino@lemmy.blahaj.zone -1 points 1 year ago* (1 child) no laws doesn't mean no community values. victims either kill their rapist in self-defense or we all gather together to beat the rapist with a stick. if they hold any position of power, they'd be banned from office forever and stripped of any social capital. if they try to contact their victims again, they're exiled. but most importantly, we should ask the victim what they want, short of the death penalty or torture. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] Rhynoplaz@lemmy.world 2 points 1 year ago (1 child) Too bad your entire justice system falls apart when I add one tiny detail: a ski mask. She doesn't know who this guy is, so now what? permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] amino@lemmy.blahaj.zone -1 points 1 year ago (1 child) yeah, you're arguing in bad faith. why would a rapist need a ski mask when most rapes happen in the workplace, in the family or by intimate partners? permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] Rhynoplaz@lemmy.world 2 points 1 year ago Interesting that in your world no rapist would ever think of that, but even if we pretend a woman always knows her rapist, what's your solution for roofies? That's a thing, woman wakes up battered no memory. Who does she tell? Who looks for this guy? permalink fedilink source parent
[–] amino@lemmy.blahaj.zone -1 points 1 year ago* (1 child) no laws doesn't mean no community values. victims either kill their rapist in self-defense or we all gather together to beat the rapist with a stick. if they hold any position of power, they'd be banned from office forever and stripped of any social capital. if they try to contact their victims again, they're exiled. but most importantly, we should ask the victim what they want, short of the death penalty or torture. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] Rhynoplaz@lemmy.world 2 points 1 year ago (1 child) Too bad your entire justice system falls apart when I add one tiny detail: a ski mask. She doesn't know who this guy is, so now what? permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] amino@lemmy.blahaj.zone -1 points 1 year ago (1 child) yeah, you're arguing in bad faith. why would a rapist need a ski mask when most rapes happen in the workplace, in the family or by intimate partners? permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] Rhynoplaz@lemmy.world 2 points 1 year ago Interesting that in your world no rapist would ever think of that, but even if we pretend a woman always knows her rapist, what's your solution for roofies? That's a thing, woman wakes up battered no memory. Who does she tell? Who looks for this guy? permalink fedilink source parent
[–] Rhynoplaz@lemmy.world 2 points 1 year ago (1 child) Too bad your entire justice system falls apart when I add one tiny detail: a ski mask. She doesn't know who this guy is, so now what? permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] amino@lemmy.blahaj.zone -1 points 1 year ago (1 child) yeah, you're arguing in bad faith. why would a rapist need a ski mask when most rapes happen in the workplace, in the family or by intimate partners? permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] Rhynoplaz@lemmy.world 2 points 1 year ago Interesting that in your world no rapist would ever think of that, but even if we pretend a woman always knows her rapist, what's your solution for roofies? That's a thing, woman wakes up battered no memory. Who does she tell? Who looks for this guy? permalink fedilink source parent
[–] amino@lemmy.blahaj.zone -1 points 1 year ago (1 child) yeah, you're arguing in bad faith. why would a rapist need a ski mask when most rapes happen in the workplace, in the family or by intimate partners? permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] Rhynoplaz@lemmy.world 2 points 1 year ago Interesting that in your world no rapist would ever think of that, but even if we pretend a woman always knows her rapist, what's your solution for roofies? That's a thing, woman wakes up battered no memory. Who does she tell? Who looks for this guy? permalink fedilink source parent
[–] Rhynoplaz@lemmy.world 2 points 1 year ago Interesting that in your world no rapist would ever think of that, but even if we pretend a woman always knows her rapist, what's your solution for roofies? That's a thing, woman wakes up battered no memory. Who does she tell? Who looks for this guy? permalink fedilink source parent
[–] technocrit@lemmy.dbzer0.com -4 points 1 year ago* there are pieces of shit who will take any opportunity they can to hurt others. Yeah they're called cops. They've enforced a racist system for centuries. They violently attack people so they can be tortured in cages. Makes me think of Team America. Yes, you sound like a crappy brainwashed cartoon for adult babies. permalink fedilink source parent
[+] amino@lemmy.blahaj.zone 0 points 1 year ago (1 child) [deleted] permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] phdepressed@sh.itjust.works 6 points 1 year ago (1 child) Id actually argue the majority of people are inherently good but something needs to constrain the minority of the inherently "bad". I'm arguing for massive reform so don't @me about what is when we're arguing about what should be. I've had enough lived experience as a melanated individual. I've also seen what mob justice does-while a last resort when justice is otherwise obstructed it should not be the first line when it gets things wrong so often (see lynchings). Policing's past as slave catchers and continued existence whereby they protect property over people is not what law enforcement should be. However, no matter what society you make there are individuals who will break laws in both minor and major ways. A lot of criminality is a result of socioeconomics but not all and there needs to be a way to enforce punishment on those exceptions in an equitable way. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] amino@lemmy.blahaj.zone -4 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (1 child) sorrry, I deleted that lived experience comment because I meant to @ Ryhnoplaz not you. so we both agree that lynchings are bad. i fail to see how police still existing helps in any way? the same mechanisms that deputize white people to kill Black people are what leads to justifications of the police existing. the way to solve that is through abolishing hierarchies not by creating more. Black people should have an unconditional right to self-defense against racists and the police still existing is a way to prevent that. their argument is that taking justice in your own hands is harmful because white people/cops always know better than the victim. also why do we need law enforcement in the first place? the law is inherently arbitrary and is used to criminalize people stealing food to survive and many such things. i think there needs to be a distinction between crime and harm. some crimes are harmless like distributing food and water while some harmful actions like wage theft are not de facto crimes. lastly, I'd be curious to find out which criminalities you believe aren't caused by socioeconomic factors? i don't see how you could argue for that besides appealing to the human nature fallacy. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] phdepressed@sh.itjust.works 2 points 1 year ago I mean crimes of passion would be the simplest example. Some heirarchy is inherent in society. It can be as simple as a farmer making better cheese than their neighbor. Now they keep more and people who know it is better and like cheese are more willing to give more for it. Now the better cheese maker has more than his neighbor. That inequality is a base for hierarchy. There's no human nature involved in generating that hierarchy besides better cheese and cheese lovers. You keep talking about police as they are-that is a strawman I ain't arguing for. In any society however, there remains a need for enforcement of those societal laws. Unjust laws/enforcement are not an argument against laws or enforcement entirely just that laws and enforcement should be made just. permalink fedilink source parent
[–] phdepressed@sh.itjust.works 6 points 1 year ago (1 child) Id actually argue the majority of people are inherently good but something needs to constrain the minority of the inherently "bad". I'm arguing for massive reform so don't @me about what is when we're arguing about what should be. I've had enough lived experience as a melanated individual. I've also seen what mob justice does-while a last resort when justice is otherwise obstructed it should not be the first line when it gets things wrong so often (see lynchings). Policing's past as slave catchers and continued existence whereby they protect property over people is not what law enforcement should be. However, no matter what society you make there are individuals who will break laws in both minor and major ways. A lot of criminality is a result of socioeconomics but not all and there needs to be a way to enforce punishment on those exceptions in an equitable way. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] amino@lemmy.blahaj.zone -4 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (1 child) sorrry, I deleted that lived experience comment because I meant to @ Ryhnoplaz not you. so we both agree that lynchings are bad. i fail to see how police still existing helps in any way? the same mechanisms that deputize white people to kill Black people are what leads to justifications of the police existing. the way to solve that is through abolishing hierarchies not by creating more. Black people should have an unconditional right to self-defense against racists and the police still existing is a way to prevent that. their argument is that taking justice in your own hands is harmful because white people/cops always know better than the victim. also why do we need law enforcement in the first place? the law is inherently arbitrary and is used to criminalize people stealing food to survive and many such things. i think there needs to be a distinction between crime and harm. some crimes are harmless like distributing food and water while some harmful actions like wage theft are not de facto crimes. lastly, I'd be curious to find out which criminalities you believe aren't caused by socioeconomic factors? i don't see how you could argue for that besides appealing to the human nature fallacy. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] phdepressed@sh.itjust.works 2 points 1 year ago I mean crimes of passion would be the simplest example. Some heirarchy is inherent in society. It can be as simple as a farmer making better cheese than their neighbor. Now they keep more and people who know it is better and like cheese are more willing to give more for it. Now the better cheese maker has more than his neighbor. That inequality is a base for hierarchy. There's no human nature involved in generating that hierarchy besides better cheese and cheese lovers. You keep talking about police as they are-that is a strawman I ain't arguing for. In any society however, there remains a need for enforcement of those societal laws. Unjust laws/enforcement are not an argument against laws or enforcement entirely just that laws and enforcement should be made just. permalink fedilink source parent
[–] amino@lemmy.blahaj.zone -4 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (1 child) sorrry, I deleted that lived experience comment because I meant to @ Ryhnoplaz not you. so we both agree that lynchings are bad. i fail to see how police still existing helps in any way? the same mechanisms that deputize white people to kill Black people are what leads to justifications of the police existing. the way to solve that is through abolishing hierarchies not by creating more. Black people should have an unconditional right to self-defense against racists and the police still existing is a way to prevent that. their argument is that taking justice in your own hands is harmful because white people/cops always know better than the victim. also why do we need law enforcement in the first place? the law is inherently arbitrary and is used to criminalize people stealing food to survive and many such things. i think there needs to be a distinction between crime and harm. some crimes are harmless like distributing food and water while some harmful actions like wage theft are not de facto crimes. lastly, I'd be curious to find out which criminalities you believe aren't caused by socioeconomic factors? i don't see how you could argue for that besides appealing to the human nature fallacy. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] phdepressed@sh.itjust.works 2 points 1 year ago I mean crimes of passion would be the simplest example. Some heirarchy is inherent in society. It can be as simple as a farmer making better cheese than their neighbor. Now they keep more and people who know it is better and like cheese are more willing to give more for it. Now the better cheese maker has more than his neighbor. That inequality is a base for hierarchy. There's no human nature involved in generating that hierarchy besides better cheese and cheese lovers. You keep talking about police as they are-that is a strawman I ain't arguing for. In any society however, there remains a need for enforcement of those societal laws. Unjust laws/enforcement are not an argument against laws or enforcement entirely just that laws and enforcement should be made just. permalink fedilink source parent
[–] phdepressed@sh.itjust.works 2 points 1 year ago I mean crimes of passion would be the simplest example. Some heirarchy is inherent in society. It can be as simple as a farmer making better cheese than their neighbor. Now they keep more and people who know it is better and like cheese are more willing to give more for it. Now the better cheese maker has more than his neighbor. That inequality is a base for hierarchy. There's no human nature involved in generating that hierarchy besides better cheese and cheese lovers. You keep talking about police as they are-that is a strawman I ain't arguing for. In any society however, there remains a need for enforcement of those societal laws. Unjust laws/enforcement are not an argument against laws or enforcement entirely just that laws and enforcement should be made just. permalink fedilink source parent
