▲ 748 ▼ Let them eat starlink! (mander.xyz) submitted 1 year ago by Gsus4@mander.xyz to c/enoughmuskspam@lemmy.world 263 comments fedilink hide all child comments stolen from https://old.reddit.com/r/EnoughMuskSpam/comments/1kmadyp/musk_is_hiking_starlink_costs/
[–] WhiskyTangoFoxtrot@lemmy.world 36 points 1 year ago (2 children) Maybe they'll collide with each other. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 4 child comments replies: [–] JohnSwanFromTheLough@lemmy.world 28 points 1 year ago* (6 children) Probably, and well be forever imprisoned on the planet in that scenario because we won't be able to launch anything for a long long time again. Kessler Syndrome permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 12 child comments replies: [–] SkunkWorkz@lemmy.world 12 points 1 year ago (2 children) Those LEO satellites don’t even stay 10 years in orbit without additional orbital maneuvers. It’s not forever. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 4 child comments replies: [–] JohnSwanFromTheLough@lemmy.world 5 points 1 year ago (3 children) Is it not possible that an impact at LEO could send debris into higher orbit potentially hitting more satellites? permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 6 child comments replies: [–] postmateDumbass@lemmy.world 7 points 1 year ago (2 children) Not likely. Gravity is pulling it all in all the time. LEOs are at 500km. GPS are at 26,000km. GEOs are 35-40,000 km. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 4 child comments replies: [–] conditional_soup@lemm.ee 5 points 1 year ago Came here to say this in a way clunkier fashion. The orbit levels aren't even in the same neighborhood. permalink fedilink source parent [–] Buddahriffic@lemmy.world 1 point 1 year ago You could end up with some elliptical orbits that send debris through those layers. But they would also likely make that debris more likely to enter the atmosphere when they come back down. Plus, the higher the orbit, the more space available in total in that orbit, so the lower the chance of a collision. permalink fedilink source parent [–] Baaahb@feddit.nl 6 points 1 year ago Yes, but... So the most basic way orbits work, the faster you go, the higher your orbit. Any collision has to conserve momentum, so any collision will be a net deceleration. There WILL be things that get ejected at higher velocity, but most would cause the orbit to decay instead. Also, while there are thousands of satellites up there, they really aren't very close to one another. You'd need to put a LOT of really small pieces of debris, like a shuttle exploding, to cause them to spread over LEO to a point where the random collisions really out things under threat. permalink fedilink source parent [–] SkunkWorkz@lemmy.world 5 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (1 child) It's possible of course. But Starlink satellites orbit at around 500 km and LEO ends at 2000km. It requires a significant amount of energy to push things from 500km high out of LEO. And even if debris flies out of LEO it will still come down to lower orbits and get affected by drag since it doesn't orbit in a perfect circle. If the debris hits satellites in higher orbit it will most likely be satellites that are in LEO as well and thus still be affected by orbital decay. The higher things are in LEO the longer it takes to come down, but it's still not forever. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] GrosPapatouf@lemmy.world 1 point 1 year ago Decay times grow very quickly though. At 500km altitude a debris falls back in a few months up to a couple of years, but at 800km you are looking at centuries. permalink fedilink source parent [–] wetbeardhairs@lemmy.dbzer0.com 5 points 1 year ago It'll act like nuclear fission in a reactor. Once a critical point is reached where a few satellites collide, their debris will spread and cause cascading collisions with other satellites. Some of that debris will quickly fall out of orbit but it may take hundreds of years for the rest to deorbit. permalink fedilink source parent [–] Korhaka@sopuli.xyz 9 points 1 year ago (2 children) Upside to that is it ensures the billionaires can't escape and are stuck here with the rest of us who are getting increasingly angry. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 4 child comments replies: [–] quediuspayu@lemmy.dbzer0.com 9 points 1 year ago We already had undersea mashed potato billionaire, I bet space mashed potato billionaire tastes much better. permalink fedilink source parent [–] Wav_function@lemmy.world 7 points 1 year ago Maybe with enough space junk we can reflect enough sunlight to stave off global warming. permalink fedilink source parent [–] bampop@lemmy.world 6 points 1 year ago Maybe we just need stronger spacecraft. I look forward to a future where every trip to space goes through the trash zone where you hear the continuous pattering of small satellites smashing against the hull. permalink fedilink source parent [–] NikkiDimes@lemmy.world 3 points 1 year ago (1 child) Fortunately, they're all pretty low orbit, so it isn't super permanent... permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] LarmyOfLone@lemm.ee 2 points 1 year ago It's also not as if we can't launch spacecrafts at all, as long as your destination is high orbit the chances of collision are low. permalink fedilink source parent [–] UltraGiGaGigantic@lemmy.ml 2 points 1 year ago Good permalink fedilink source parent [–] Rbnsft@lemm.ee 2 points 1 year ago Maybe that forces ppl to actually care about climate change... permalink fedilink source parent [–] Wav_function@lemmy.world 6 points 1 year ago (1 child) That would be marvelous permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] neons@lemmy.dbzer0.com 8 points 1 year ago (1 child) https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kessler_syndrome permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] Baaahb@feddit.nl 2 points 1 year ago (1 child) I dont think he meant Kessler syndrome would be amazing. I think he is saying it would be amazing if a spacex rocket and a amazon rocket ran into each other. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] neons@lemmy.dbzer0.com 4 points 1 year ago (1 child) I agree, he didn't. I don't get what you're trying to say though? He said a crash would be amazing and I contextualized that there'd be grave consequences if that happened, so it probably wouldn't be that amazing. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] Baaahb@feddit.nl 2 points 1 year ago Like a train crash. You can't look away, and if the only co sequences were that musk and bezos lost money, looked stupid, and everyone else got a pretty fireworks show, it WOULD be amazing. Additional consequences do put a damper on that though. permalink fedilink source parent
[–] JohnSwanFromTheLough@lemmy.world 28 points 1 year ago* (6 children) Probably, and well be forever imprisoned on the planet in that scenario because we won't be able to launch anything for a long long time again. Kessler Syndrome permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 12 child comments replies: [–] SkunkWorkz@lemmy.world 12 points 1 year ago (2 children) Those LEO satellites don’t even stay 10 years in orbit without additional orbital maneuvers. It’s not forever. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 4 child comments replies: [–] JohnSwanFromTheLough@lemmy.world 5 points 1 year ago (3 children) Is it not possible that an impact at LEO could send debris into higher orbit potentially hitting more satellites? permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 6 child comments replies: [–] postmateDumbass@lemmy.world 7 points 1 year ago (2 children) Not likely. Gravity is pulling it all in all the time. LEOs are at 500km. GPS are at 26,000km. GEOs are 35-40,000 km. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 4 child comments replies: [–] conditional_soup@lemm.ee 5 points 1 year ago Came here to say this in a way clunkier fashion. The orbit levels aren't even in the same neighborhood. permalink fedilink source parent [–] Buddahriffic@lemmy.world 1 point 1 year ago You could end up with some elliptical orbits that send debris through those layers. But they would also likely make that debris more likely to enter the atmosphere when they come back down. Plus, the higher the orbit, the more space available in total in that orbit, so the lower the chance of a collision. permalink fedilink source parent [–] Baaahb@feddit.nl 6 points 1 year ago Yes, but... So the most basic way orbits work, the faster you go, the higher your orbit. Any collision has to conserve momentum, so any collision will be a net deceleration. There WILL be things that get ejected at higher velocity, but most would cause the orbit to decay instead. Also, while there are thousands of satellites up there, they really aren't very close to one another. You'd need to put a LOT of really small pieces of debris, like a shuttle exploding, to cause them to spread over LEO to a point where the random collisions really out things under threat. permalink fedilink source parent [–] SkunkWorkz@lemmy.world 5 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (1 child) It's possible of course. But Starlink satellites orbit at around 500 km and LEO ends at 2000km. It requires a significant amount of energy to push things from 500km high out of LEO. And even if debris flies out of LEO it will still come down to lower orbits and get affected by drag since it doesn't orbit in a perfect circle. If the debris hits satellites in higher orbit it will most likely be satellites that are in LEO as well and thus still be affected by orbital decay. The higher things are in LEO the longer it takes to come down, but it's still not forever. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] GrosPapatouf@lemmy.world 1 point 1 year ago Decay times grow very quickly though. At 500km altitude a debris falls back in a few months up to a couple of years, but at 800km you are looking at centuries. permalink fedilink source parent [–] wetbeardhairs@lemmy.dbzer0.com 5 points 1 year ago It'll act like nuclear fission in a reactor. Once a critical point is reached where a few satellites collide, their debris will spread and cause cascading collisions with other satellites. Some of that debris will quickly fall out of orbit but it may take hundreds of years for the rest to deorbit. permalink fedilink source parent [–] Korhaka@sopuli.xyz 9 points 1 year ago (2 children) Upside to that is it ensures the billionaires can't escape and are stuck here with the rest of us who are getting increasingly angry. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 4 child comments replies: [–] quediuspayu@lemmy.dbzer0.com 9 points 1 year ago We already had undersea mashed potato billionaire, I bet space mashed potato billionaire tastes much better. permalink fedilink source parent [–] Wav_function@lemmy.world 7 points 1 year ago Maybe with enough space junk we can reflect enough sunlight to stave off global warming. permalink fedilink source parent [–] bampop@lemmy.world 6 points 1 year ago Maybe we just need stronger spacecraft. I look forward to a future where every trip to space goes through the trash zone where you hear the continuous pattering of small satellites smashing against the hull. permalink fedilink source parent [–] NikkiDimes@lemmy.world 3 points 1 year ago (1 child) Fortunately, they're all pretty low orbit, so it isn't super permanent... permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] LarmyOfLone@lemm.ee 2 points 1 year ago It's also not as if we can't launch spacecrafts at all, as long as your destination is high orbit the chances of collision are low. permalink fedilink source parent [–] UltraGiGaGigantic@lemmy.ml 2 points 1 year ago Good permalink fedilink source parent [–] Rbnsft@lemm.ee 2 points 1 year ago Maybe that forces ppl to actually care about climate change... permalink fedilink source parent
[–] SkunkWorkz@lemmy.world 12 points 1 year ago (2 children) Those LEO satellites don’t even stay 10 years in orbit without additional orbital maneuvers. It’s not forever. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 4 child comments replies: [–] JohnSwanFromTheLough@lemmy.world 5 points 1 year ago (3 children) Is it not possible that an impact at LEO could send debris into higher orbit potentially hitting more satellites? permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 6 child comments replies: [–] postmateDumbass@lemmy.world 7 points 1 year ago (2 children) Not likely. Gravity is pulling it all in all the time. LEOs are at 500km. GPS are at 26,000km. GEOs are 35-40,000 km. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 4 child comments replies: [–] conditional_soup@lemm.ee 5 points 1 year ago Came here to say this in a way clunkier fashion. The orbit levels aren't even in the same neighborhood. permalink fedilink source parent [–] Buddahriffic@lemmy.world 1 point 1 year ago You could end up with some elliptical orbits that send debris through those layers. But they would also likely make that debris more likely to enter the atmosphere when they come back down. Plus, the higher the orbit, the more space available in total in that orbit, so the lower the chance of a collision. permalink fedilink source parent [–] Baaahb@feddit.nl 6 points 1 year ago Yes, but... So the most basic way orbits work, the faster you go, the higher your orbit. Any collision has to conserve momentum, so any collision will be a net deceleration. There WILL be things that get ejected at higher velocity, but most would cause the orbit to decay instead. Also, while there are thousands of satellites up there, they really aren't very close to one another. You'd need to put a LOT of really small pieces of debris, like a shuttle exploding, to cause them to spread over LEO to a point where the random collisions really out things under threat. permalink fedilink source parent [–] SkunkWorkz@lemmy.world 5 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (1 child) It's possible of course. But Starlink satellites orbit at around 500 km and LEO ends at 2000km. It requires a significant amount of energy to push things from 500km high out of LEO. And even if debris flies out of LEO it will still come down to lower orbits and get affected by drag since it doesn't orbit in a perfect circle. If the debris hits satellites in higher orbit it will most likely be satellites that are in LEO as well and thus still be affected by orbital decay. The higher things are in LEO the longer it takes to come down, but it's still not forever. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] GrosPapatouf@lemmy.world 1 point 1 year ago Decay times grow very quickly though. At 500km altitude a debris falls back in a few months up to a couple of years, but at 800km you are looking at centuries. permalink fedilink source parent [–] wetbeardhairs@lemmy.dbzer0.com 5 points 1 year ago It'll act like nuclear fission in a reactor. Once a critical point is reached where a few satellites collide, their debris will spread and cause cascading collisions with other satellites. Some of that debris will quickly fall out of orbit but it may take hundreds of years for the rest to deorbit. permalink fedilink source parent
[–] JohnSwanFromTheLough@lemmy.world 5 points 1 year ago (3 children) Is it not possible that an impact at LEO could send debris into higher orbit potentially hitting more satellites? permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 6 child comments replies: [–] postmateDumbass@lemmy.world 7 points 1 year ago (2 children) Not likely. Gravity is pulling it all in all the time. LEOs are at 500km. GPS are at 26,000km. GEOs are 35-40,000 km. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 4 child comments replies: [–] conditional_soup@lemm.ee 5 points 1 year ago Came here to say this in a way clunkier fashion. The orbit levels aren't even in the same neighborhood. permalink fedilink source parent [–] Buddahriffic@lemmy.world 1 point 1 year ago You could end up with some elliptical orbits that send debris through those layers. But they would also likely make that debris more likely to enter the atmosphere when they come back down. Plus, the higher the orbit, the more space available in total in that orbit, so the lower the chance of a collision. permalink fedilink source parent [–] Baaahb@feddit.nl 6 points 1 year ago Yes, but... So the most basic way orbits work, the faster you go, the higher your orbit. Any collision has to conserve momentum, so any collision will be a net deceleration. There WILL be things that get ejected at higher velocity, but most would cause the orbit to decay instead. Also, while there are thousands of satellites up there, they really aren't very close to one another. You'd need to put a LOT of really small pieces of debris, like a shuttle exploding, to cause them to spread over LEO to a point where the random collisions really out things under threat. permalink fedilink source parent [–] SkunkWorkz@lemmy.world 5 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (1 child) It's possible of course. But Starlink satellites orbit at around 500 km and LEO ends at 2000km. It requires a significant amount of energy to push things from 500km high out of LEO. And even if debris flies out of LEO it will still come down to lower orbits and get affected by drag since it doesn't orbit in a perfect circle. If the debris hits satellites in higher orbit it will most likely be satellites that are in LEO as well and thus still be affected by orbital decay. The higher things are in LEO the longer it takes to come down, but it's still not forever. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] GrosPapatouf@lemmy.world 1 point 1 year ago Decay times grow very quickly though. At 500km altitude a debris falls back in a few months up to a couple of years, but at 800km you are looking at centuries. permalink fedilink source parent
[–] postmateDumbass@lemmy.world 7 points 1 year ago (2 children) Not likely. Gravity is pulling it all in all the time. LEOs are at 500km. GPS are at 26,000km. GEOs are 35-40,000 km. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 4 child comments replies: [–] conditional_soup@lemm.ee 5 points 1 year ago Came here to say this in a way clunkier fashion. The orbit levels aren't even in the same neighborhood. permalink fedilink source parent [–] Buddahriffic@lemmy.world 1 point 1 year ago You could end up with some elliptical orbits that send debris through those layers. But they would also likely make that debris more likely to enter the atmosphere when they come back down. Plus, the higher the orbit, the more space available in total in that orbit, so the lower the chance of a collision. permalink fedilink source parent
[–] conditional_soup@lemm.ee 5 points 1 year ago Came here to say this in a way clunkier fashion. The orbit levels aren't even in the same neighborhood. permalink fedilink source parent
[–] Buddahriffic@lemmy.world 1 point 1 year ago You could end up with some elliptical orbits that send debris through those layers. But they would also likely make that debris more likely to enter the atmosphere when they come back down. Plus, the higher the orbit, the more space available in total in that orbit, so the lower the chance of a collision. permalink fedilink source parent
[–] Baaahb@feddit.nl 6 points 1 year ago Yes, but... So the most basic way orbits work, the faster you go, the higher your orbit. Any collision has to conserve momentum, so any collision will be a net deceleration. There WILL be things that get ejected at higher velocity, but most would cause the orbit to decay instead. Also, while there are thousands of satellites up there, they really aren't very close to one another. You'd need to put a LOT of really small pieces of debris, like a shuttle exploding, to cause them to spread over LEO to a point where the random collisions really out things under threat. permalink fedilink source parent
[–] SkunkWorkz@lemmy.world 5 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (1 child) It's possible of course. But Starlink satellites orbit at around 500 km and LEO ends at 2000km. It requires a significant amount of energy to push things from 500km high out of LEO. And even if debris flies out of LEO it will still come down to lower orbits and get affected by drag since it doesn't orbit in a perfect circle. If the debris hits satellites in higher orbit it will most likely be satellites that are in LEO as well and thus still be affected by orbital decay. The higher things are in LEO the longer it takes to come down, but it's still not forever. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] GrosPapatouf@lemmy.world 1 point 1 year ago Decay times grow very quickly though. At 500km altitude a debris falls back in a few months up to a couple of years, but at 800km you are looking at centuries. permalink fedilink source parent
[–] GrosPapatouf@lemmy.world 1 point 1 year ago Decay times grow very quickly though. At 500km altitude a debris falls back in a few months up to a couple of years, but at 800km you are looking at centuries. permalink fedilink source parent
[–] wetbeardhairs@lemmy.dbzer0.com 5 points 1 year ago It'll act like nuclear fission in a reactor. Once a critical point is reached where a few satellites collide, their debris will spread and cause cascading collisions with other satellites. Some of that debris will quickly fall out of orbit but it may take hundreds of years for the rest to deorbit. permalink fedilink source parent
[–] Korhaka@sopuli.xyz 9 points 1 year ago (2 children) Upside to that is it ensures the billionaires can't escape and are stuck here with the rest of us who are getting increasingly angry. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 4 child comments replies: [–] quediuspayu@lemmy.dbzer0.com 9 points 1 year ago We already had undersea mashed potato billionaire, I bet space mashed potato billionaire tastes much better. permalink fedilink source parent [–] Wav_function@lemmy.world 7 points 1 year ago Maybe with enough space junk we can reflect enough sunlight to stave off global warming. permalink fedilink source parent
[–] quediuspayu@lemmy.dbzer0.com 9 points 1 year ago We already had undersea mashed potato billionaire, I bet space mashed potato billionaire tastes much better. permalink fedilink source parent
[–] Wav_function@lemmy.world 7 points 1 year ago Maybe with enough space junk we can reflect enough sunlight to stave off global warming. permalink fedilink source parent
[–] bampop@lemmy.world 6 points 1 year ago Maybe we just need stronger spacecraft. I look forward to a future where every trip to space goes through the trash zone where you hear the continuous pattering of small satellites smashing against the hull. permalink fedilink source parent
[–] NikkiDimes@lemmy.world 3 points 1 year ago (1 child) Fortunately, they're all pretty low orbit, so it isn't super permanent... permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] LarmyOfLone@lemm.ee 2 points 1 year ago It's also not as if we can't launch spacecrafts at all, as long as your destination is high orbit the chances of collision are low. permalink fedilink source parent
[–] LarmyOfLone@lemm.ee 2 points 1 year ago It's also not as if we can't launch spacecrafts at all, as long as your destination is high orbit the chances of collision are low. permalink fedilink source parent
[–] Rbnsft@lemm.ee 2 points 1 year ago Maybe that forces ppl to actually care about climate change... permalink fedilink source parent
[–] Wav_function@lemmy.world 6 points 1 year ago (1 child) That would be marvelous permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] neons@lemmy.dbzer0.com 8 points 1 year ago (1 child) https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kessler_syndrome permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] Baaahb@feddit.nl 2 points 1 year ago (1 child) I dont think he meant Kessler syndrome would be amazing. I think he is saying it would be amazing if a spacex rocket and a amazon rocket ran into each other. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] neons@lemmy.dbzer0.com 4 points 1 year ago (1 child) I agree, he didn't. I don't get what you're trying to say though? He said a crash would be amazing and I contextualized that there'd be grave consequences if that happened, so it probably wouldn't be that amazing. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] Baaahb@feddit.nl 2 points 1 year ago Like a train crash. You can't look away, and if the only co sequences were that musk and bezos lost money, looked stupid, and everyone else got a pretty fireworks show, it WOULD be amazing. Additional consequences do put a damper on that though. permalink fedilink source parent
[–] neons@lemmy.dbzer0.com 8 points 1 year ago (1 child) https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kessler_syndrome permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] Baaahb@feddit.nl 2 points 1 year ago (1 child) I dont think he meant Kessler syndrome would be amazing. I think he is saying it would be amazing if a spacex rocket and a amazon rocket ran into each other. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] neons@lemmy.dbzer0.com 4 points 1 year ago (1 child) I agree, he didn't. I don't get what you're trying to say though? He said a crash would be amazing and I contextualized that there'd be grave consequences if that happened, so it probably wouldn't be that amazing. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] Baaahb@feddit.nl 2 points 1 year ago Like a train crash. You can't look away, and if the only co sequences were that musk and bezos lost money, looked stupid, and everyone else got a pretty fireworks show, it WOULD be amazing. Additional consequences do put a damper on that though. permalink fedilink source parent
[–] Baaahb@feddit.nl 2 points 1 year ago (1 child) I dont think he meant Kessler syndrome would be amazing. I think he is saying it would be amazing if a spacex rocket and a amazon rocket ran into each other. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] neons@lemmy.dbzer0.com 4 points 1 year ago (1 child) I agree, he didn't. I don't get what you're trying to say though? He said a crash would be amazing and I contextualized that there'd be grave consequences if that happened, so it probably wouldn't be that amazing. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] Baaahb@feddit.nl 2 points 1 year ago Like a train crash. You can't look away, and if the only co sequences were that musk and bezos lost money, looked stupid, and everyone else got a pretty fireworks show, it WOULD be amazing. Additional consequences do put a damper on that though. permalink fedilink source parent
[–] neons@lemmy.dbzer0.com 4 points 1 year ago (1 child) I agree, he didn't. I don't get what you're trying to say though? He said a crash would be amazing and I contextualized that there'd be grave consequences if that happened, so it probably wouldn't be that amazing. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] Baaahb@feddit.nl 2 points 1 year ago Like a train crash. You can't look away, and if the only co sequences were that musk and bezos lost money, looked stupid, and everyone else got a pretty fireworks show, it WOULD be amazing. Additional consequences do put a damper on that though. permalink fedilink source parent
[–] Baaahb@feddit.nl 2 points 1 year ago Like a train crash. You can't look away, and if the only co sequences were that musk and bezos lost money, looked stupid, and everyone else got a pretty fireworks show, it WOULD be amazing. Additional consequences do put a damper on that though. permalink fedilink source parent
