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[+] -42 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (8 children)

society should normalize having crypto-miners in software, like as an official method of monetization that the user consents to

that would actually fix most of our problems, no ads, no subscrption fees

I don't see a downside to this

edit: if you disagree with me on this, reply. I wanna debate this

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  • [–] 22 points 1 year ago (2 children)

    My electricity bill would like to have a word

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  • [–] 1 point 1 year ago* (1 child)

    I bet most of the upvotes are from people who consider crypto mining to be "free money" because they don't pay their own electric bills.

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  • [–] 15 points 1 year ago (1 child)

    That sounds terrible. Also a lot of games use the gpu so you probably don't want to share it with mining at the same time

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  • [+] -7 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

    the randomX hash function Monero uses runs on the CPU, not the gpu

    it could just use like 1-2 threads if the game is taking a lot of processing power

    edit: if ur gonna mass downvote me, say why 🤦

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  • [–] 15 points 1 year ago (1 child)

    Counter-point:
    crypto-mining should be illegal, period. (and so should AI)
    We're on the brink of climate collapse, we as a species can't afford to waste massive amounts of electricity on something that literally creates no value.

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  • [–] 0 points 1 year ago (1 child)

    we as a species can’t afford to waste massive amounts of electricity on something that literally creates no value.

    its the fault of the miner if they're using non-environmental friendly energy sources. if you don't wanna create emissions, just use solar power.

    literally creates no value.

    I don't really see how. if it can be sold for something of value, it has value. crypto might be useless to you, but to some people out there a single Bitcoin is worth more than 80 thousand dollars, so if you have a few Bitcoin, even though to you they might be useless, you can sell them for money

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  • [–] -1 points 1 year ago* (1 child)

    if you don’t wanna create emissions, just use solar power.

    If you have access to solar power, it would be better to use it for something else, or feed it back into the grid.
    As long as we're still burning fossil fuels to create electricity anywhere on earth, wasting any kind of energy is bad.

    Crypto has a price (because people believe that it has a price).
    It doesn't add any value to anything. It's expensive (in terms of energy cost) and absolutely, 100% useless.

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  • As long as we’re still burning fossil fuels to create electricity anywhere on earth, wasting any kind of energy is bad.

    So your saying that if I use solar power to power a lightbulb that then I forget to turn off, that's bad?

    It doesn’t add any value to anything. It’s expensive (in terms of energy cost) and absolutely, 100% useless.

    Uh actually it is not useless, no idea where you got that, there's tons of things you can buy with it. Other than drugs (which alone provide a use case, but il continue anyway), you can pay for protonmail, buy computer and other stuff. and theres a few lists (https://monerica/ .com/ is one) with a bunch of more stuff you can do with it. (I'm not endorsing anything here, just saying it exists)

    crypto just facilitates more trade over the internet, thats how its useful

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  • [–] 8 points 1 year ago (1 child)

    You can already mine on your own and use that money to pay for stuff if it's viable. This is just displacing the subscription into your electricity bill.

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  • [–] 7 points 1 year ago (1 child)

    This feels like a technical approach for a solution to a political problem. We shouldn't normalize a solution to a predatory approach that companies have, we should regulate so that the approach can't be taken by companies on the first place, we should foster competition so that those who do are going to be outcompeted etc.

    Wasting even more electricity to compute numbers used in an unstable speculative market with no clear future is IMHO a completely wrong approach to the problem.

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  • [–] 1 point 1 year ago (1 child)

    There still needs to be some way for the devs to pay the server costs and API costs. What I'm suggesting is a way for the user to sell their processing power to them instead of paying an irritating $2 every month. And while the price of cryptocurrencies vary, they don't vary fast enough to make mining profits (if you sell the coins as you produce them) unpredictable

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  • [–] 1 point 1 year ago

    I understood what you meant, not sure why you would assume otherwise. My point is that there is no need to invent new business models. Your proposal is similar to "pay with your data", a new business model that has negative consequences for the collectivity.

    In case of these types of games, a flat rate for the game and potentially a pay-per-use without margin to cover hosting (minimal, can be factored in the initial price) and API calls (gMaps) could be an option. Or none of this, and they factor in the cost already in the initial purchase. Either way, to come back to the topic of discussion, asking a one year subscription for a game sold for free (to lure people in) is IMHO predatory behavior with no excuse.

    Anyway, tl;dr money already exists and people can pay for that, we don't need to waste more computing power to find an alternative. The use of crypto incentives the overall crypto market which causes even more people (or companies) to waste energy for nothing.

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  • [–] 6 points 1 year ago (1 child)

    There are several issues with that.

    First and foremost. Most people's devices are not powerful enough to make any money mining any cryptocurrency.

    Also a cryptominer is not "free real state" it chugs the computer. The user would have a terrible experience trying to do anything with a cryptominer on the background.

    And finally, there are many free software out there. Not everything is to be monetized. Some things should just be free. I have done plenty of free things for others to enjoy, it's not the end of the world, quite the opposite is quite rewarding.

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  • [–] 1 point 1 year ago (1 child)

    First and foremost. Most people’s devices are not powerful enough to make any money mining any cryptocurrency.

    That depends on the currency. Miners working on something like bitcoin have to compete with massive corporations who construct special ASIC chips that have vastly higher hash rates, making it impossible for anyone who isn't using such a chip to create any profit. Some currencies, like Monero (XMR) use special hash functions designed is such a way that custom mining hardware for them cant be constructed, and so mining can only happen on cpus. Because of this, its actually possible to make money mining Monero. There's a benchmark for the hash rates of various cpus, and here's a link to convert that to projected profits. My PC can calculate 3500 hashes per second, and this translates into USD 0.0045 per hour. That might not seem like much, but if you add together all the money that would be produced by all the players in this game, it would become substantial.

    Also a cryptominer is not “free real state” it chugs the computer. The user would have a terrible experience trying to do anything with a cryptominer on the background.

    That all depends on how many threads the miner is running. I honestly wouldn't be able tell if I'm running 2 threads of a Monero miner on my PC unless I look at my task manager - its really not that intensive at that level. Now of course, if it was using the full power of my cpu, I would be a lot hard to do any other task on it, but it doesn't need to run at full power like that.

    And finally, there are many free software out there. Not everything is to be monetized. Some things should just be free. I have done plenty of free things for others to enjoy, it’s not the end of the world, quite the opposite is quite rewarding.

    I agree and this game costs something to run, all the server costs and the API costs, and there needs to be some way of paying for that. I suppose it could become free if it was sustained with donations, and in that case having the option to run a miner like this on the client could be a way to add to that, giving the user the option to donate their computing power if they wanted to.

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  • [–] 2 points 1 year ago*

    0.0045 per hour at 100%.

    As we don't want to use all power let's say 50% power. So about 0.0028usd per hour.

    Geoguessr most basic plan is 2.50usd month. The miner would need to be running 893 hours that month. Which is about 29 hours a day, wich is impossible.

    With the miner running like 10 hours per week the developers would get the amazing quantity of 0.112 usd per month.

    That kind of thing is used in malware because if you stole is actually real state. But for legit usage it's hard to justify without a dedicated operation.

    Btw are you checking if your monero mining is really profitable? Last time I checked xmr mining was no profitable with any type of hardware unless electricity cost were basically free. I have both a beefy computer and a power efficient computer, checked with both and neither were profitable to use for mining.

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  • [+] -1 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (1 child)
  • [–] -1 points 1 year ago (1 child)

    I don’t think its a horrible idea but maybe have an option for purchase, ads, or crypto.

    that's what I'm thinking, but additionally having a option to directly 'sell' your computing power should also be an option

    But yeah people are going to hate you for this comment 🤣

    actually though. I haven't been on Lemmy for too long but this might be the most downvotes ive gotten on a comment

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  • [–] 0 points 1 year ago* (1 child)

    Congratulations. It happens. I didn't think it was too bad an idea. What if steam ran the miner to produce steam bux?

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  • [–] 3 points 1 year ago (2 children)

    That would be a huge waste of ressources. We as humans need to switch to carbon-free energy sources and should not start wasting ressources on mining "steam bux".

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  • [–] 1 point 1 year ago (1 child)

    Sure, but we're not going to suddenly move to some Star Trek commie utopia. For now, developers need to get paid. Either I goto work and make money (burning carbon) to pay for it, or advertising (toxic) pays for it, or crypto mining (also toxic). How does this developer, living under capitalism, buy food, housing and medical without something to make money? Goodwill donation links are unlikely to cut it.

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  • [–] 1 point 1 year ago (3 children)

    We as humans need to switch to carbon-free energy sources

    crypto mining doesn't need to create carbon. if a miner creates emissions, that's on them for not using solar

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  • [–] 1 point 1 year ago (1 child)

    I totally disagree here. First of all, the initial proposal was for the steam client to mine crypto. The client has no idea where its electricity comes from. And no grid is using 100% renewables, so its currently better to feed your solar power into the grid than to waste it on crypto

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  • [–] 1 point 1 year ago (1 child)

    The client has no idea where its electricity comes from.

    If the client cared to find out, they could just find out. Regardless of mining they're creating emissions if its not green, so its not even that big of a problem. You could use this same argument to say that using microwaves is bad because the electricity they use isn't entirely green.

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  • [–] -2 points 1 year ago (4 children)

    I would pay good dollar money to be this stupid.

    Do you think solar panels come from thin air? How is that going to do anything but offset renewable adoption?

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  • [+] 3 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (1 child)
  • [–] 1 point 1 year ago (1 child)

    Passing the “carbon credit” on to my employment is kinda outside of my hands, since that is dictated by my employer, which few are lucky enough to have a meaningful decision in. People also don’t work an extra amount that somehow corresponds to “waste money” but budget out the amount they earn.

    As an idea, using crypto to offset the API costs to crypto and thus to electricity usage is wild because I’m still paying the same dollar amount, just in electricity that I have then wasted, and not directly on the game without all the middle man BS. So instead of paying for API + profit, I’m paying for electricity, which is then wasted generating crypto to pay for a game I could just pay for directly without the excess energy waste.

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  • [+] 2 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (1 child)
  • [–] 1 point 1 year ago

    More that it isn't relevant to this discussion because in the hypothetical you're still spending the same amount, just on electricity instead of the game cost.

    And yes, because labor rights are a joke in this country. I've got bills to pay and mouths to feed.

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