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[+] 148 points 2 years ago* (last edited 2 months ago) (12 children)
  • [–] 26 points 2 years ago

    We cannot force people to say we have a perfect candidate for the sake of avoiding discussion.

    They seem to believe if something isn't discussed, the other side won't notice and / or discuss it either. That's delusional.

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  • [–] 10 points 2 years ago (2 children)

    I disagree that's what's happening here. He's saying that you can be disappointed with Biden all you want, but not voting for him means we get trump and Project 2025 and fascism.

    I don't know a single person that is stoked on Biden, but he's all we have right now. And we cannot let Trump get a second term.

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  • [–] 18 points 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago) (2 children)

    Unfortunately, that’s not what Fetterman is saying.

    Fetterman noted during an interview an uptick in Democrats who have become more critical of Biden lately, and said it’s only helping former President Trump.

    “I don’t understand why,” Fetterman said, speaking on “Morning Joe” on MSNBC. “I don’t know what’s in it for you to do that whether you’re just chasing clout or you want to make it in the news or anything like that. But if you’re not willing to just support the president now and say these kinds of things, you might as well just get your MAGA hat, because you now are helping Trump with this.

    He’s addressing other Democratic politicians, whom would probably be one of the last groups to not vote for Biden. He seems to think that Biden would fare better in November if Dems outright refuse to acknowledge the realities of unprecedented homelessness, Israeli war money, or being 81 years old. (Because forcing people to look to Republicans for a dissenting opinion on these subjects is a great idea.)

    You should vote for Biden if you don’t want Trump, obviously. And vote for Fetterman over whomever if you don’t want whomever. But either Fetterman severely misspoke here, or his opinion goes way beyond that, and I can’t help but lose a lot of respect I had for him.

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    [+] 108 points 2 years ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (13 children)
  • [–] 70 points 2 years ago (4 children)

    It should be news when someone calls himself progressive for years and as soon as he gets to congress he starts ranting about how much it pisses him off everyone thinks he's progressive.

    Asshole pulled a Sinema and the most annoying part is everyone defending him because he wears a hoodie.

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  • [–] 28 points 2 years ago* (5 children)

    I hope it's more due to the fact that he had a stroke rather than he's doing it intentionally. Either way he has had a complete shift in personality and its disappointing to no end that he's not who he was when elected.

    I'm not worried about Biden's age mostly because I think this comes from the racist fear that Kamala Harris isn't capable of running this country.

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  • [–] 21 points 2 years ago (3 children)

    I think we’re worried about biden’s age less because we’re worried he’ll die in office and more because we’re worried he won’t and will keep running the country as his mind deteriorates beyond the point he should be running a bingo game.

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  • [–] 22 points 2 years ago* (8 children)

    I'm far more confident of Biden surrounding himself with capable stewards, than Trump. So even if the worst happens and he stays alive but loses it like Reagan, he will at least have intelligent, relatively progressive people behind the scenes making the actual decisions.

    With sundowning narcissist Trump at the wheel? Buckle the fuck in, because it's going to be a wild ride. I wouldn't worry about having to vote at the federal level again, so at least it'll help with that decision.

    I really wish I could joke about this, but if Trump becomes president again, things are going to get very very dark.

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    [–] 88 points 2 years ago (3 children)

    I mean, I'm still voting for Biden over any of the Nazis on the red team, but the whole funding-a-genocide-on-gaza thing is going to make it a pretty unenthused vote.

    I really wish I could vote for someone on a basis other than lesser evil.

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  • [–] 23 points 2 years ago (4 children)

    I really wish I could vote for someone on a basis other than lesser evil.

    Down-ballot exists! That's where I'm most enthusiastic about voting. There might be some places where it's just lesser evil option in some down-ballots, unfortunately, but you're more likely to have a representative that represents voters within the down-ballot which makes lesser evil choice less likely.

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    [–] 65 points 2 years ago (1 child)

    If valid criticism of a candidate causes someone to decide not to vote for them, then so be it. That's how democracy is supposed to work. What's important is that people vote for who they want to lead them, period.

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    [–] 57 points 2 years ago*

    Funny how demanding unquestioned loyalty is a MAGA cultist quality.

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  • [–] 53 points 2 years ago (15 children)

    Hey, I’m gonna be honest: his enormous about-face of political ideology (“I no longer identify as a progressive”, when, you know, him being a progressive before was a big part of why he got elected) and obvious personality changes make me extremely suspicious that his stroke permanently affected his brain in some pretty serious ways.

    That’s not a derogatory comment. That’s just an observation, and strokes can absolutely have that effect on someone.

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    [–] 48 points 2 years ago (3 children)

    Fetterman noted during an interview an uptick in Democrats who have become more critical of Biden lately, and said it’s only helping former President Trump.

    If it were closer to the election, I would definitely agree, and maybe it is too close now, although I don't think so... if it is not too close, then Biden should be criticized by Democrats who have their ear to the ground to move him towards supporting more popular policies.

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    [–] 43 points 2 years ago (1 child)

    'Get your MAGA hat'

    He's got it backward and needs to look in the mirror.

    i.e.,

    There are people who defend Trump, no matter what.

    and

    There are people who defend Biden, no matter what.

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  • [–] 34 points 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago) (4 children)

    Listen, Coach Fetterman: We love your size and bombastic past but "if you aren't for us you are against us" is not the type of faux populism that is needed in 2024.

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    [–] 34 points 2 years ago (1 child)

    He's not entirely wrong. I've been critical of Biden myself, but it is because I am concerned about Biden's ability to beat Trump. I want Biden to be a stronger candidate, and a stronger leader for that matter. Criticizing Biden is the best way I know to make him to better than he's doing now. Poking holes in candidates is my love language.

    But I'm a nobody. I don't make headlines when I point out his flaws. Maybe somebody somewhere will read something I wrote, or at a minimum it becomes part of the rising din of concern, and Biden is forced to make an effort to speak to my concerns. That's the best I can hope for.

    I'm not backing an alternative candidate. I'm not calling for him to step aside or resign. I'm not suggesting we all throw our votes away on some long shot third party candidate. Anybody who is doing those things is helping Trump. And it's hard not to think that they don't know they are helping Trump, which makes it hard not to think that their intent is to help Trump.

    So while I think Fetterman ought to be more specific with his criticism of critics, I don't disagree that there are people who fit his accusation. I also think there are far more reasonable progressives and moderates who have voiced legitimate concerns that Biden should do well to hear. Hillary ignored many of those same criticisms, to the peril of all Americans. America would be a much better place if Democrats tried harder to be more than just the lesser bad option. "At least we're not traitorous rapists" isn't a campaign slogan that inspires confidence.

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  • [–] [S] 15 points 2 years ago (2 children)

    It's a primary. Vote for whoever you want.

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  • [–] 14 points 2 years ago

    Always vote for whoever you want. That's how voting works.

    But know what you're voting for. Know who you're voting for. Our electoral system is inherently flawed.

    Voting for some schmuck running against Biden in the primary might make you feel good about protesting one or more of Biden's policies. His support of Israel, his approach to border policies, his inaction on any number of progressive issues, whatever the objection, who else are you going to vote for? I know there is the pro-Palestine contingent in Michigan promoting a "none of the above" campaign, which is effective at registering your complaint.

    But in the general election, it's time to put away such petty animus and defeat the orange monster that will destroy everything.

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  • [–] 31 points 2 years ago (1 child)

    The “I’m a progressive until I’m voted into office” guy?! Nah fuck him

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    [–] 26 points 2 years ago (1 child)
  • [–] 22 points 2 years ago* (2 children)

    What a fucking disappointment this guy is turning out to be compared to all the love he got on his campaign. Not that I'd prefer Oz by any means, but it's still pretty crushing.

    I'm increasingly sure that the rising tide of never-Biden-ers is going to send Trump back into the White House. People need to be pragmatic and strategic about their voting and encourage others to do the same. So I understand WHY he felt a need to say stupid shit like this.

    But if you're not allowed to criticize Biden without being banished to Siberia, then he's actually insufficiently different from Trump.

    I'd bet Biden would not agree with Fetterman's message. He's not a whiny little thin-skinned gremlin the way Trump is. Based on his political career, he can even update platforms and change policy based on that feedback. So yeah, lay down the criticism to him re: Israel, he deserves it, and enough voices might actually change the foreign policy here. Do not tell the critics their votes aren't welcome. Their votes are still needed. And hopefully they're smart enough to know that NOT voting for Biden will create even worse outcomes, even while they continue clearly and loudly speaking up.

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  • [–] 11 points 2 years ago (15 children)

    I’ve said this before and got downvoted but I’ll say it again. I will not tell a Muslim person or a Palestinian that they should hold their nose and vote for Biden. If the guy in charge is actively supporting a genocide and is providing the weapons that are killing your family, friend’s family, or just someone with your same religious beliefs, I don’t think we have the right to tell them they are wrong to abstain from voting for the pro genocide of their people guy. If a president was actively supporting the Nazis in killing my people, I would not have voted for that president.

    It is the candidates responsibility to listen to his constituents. Not be finger wagged into voting them.

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  • [–] 23 points 2 years ago*

    I mean, what's his point we should never bitch about it when Biden does shit we don't like? I have a novel idea, maybe he should start focusing on public approval instead of you demanding that the public blindly approve of everything he does.

    Yeah, I'm going to vote for him because the alternative is a bad fucking idea.

    His criticism isn't out of left field He's earned this shit. It's not that he's an irredeemable president, but a significant amount of his campaign is not being Trump. And still we hope all the hell that that's enough.

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  • [–] 21 points 2 years ago (7 children)

    I’m still on the fence about whether I can stomach knowing that I voted for the genocidal monster that can barely remember his name because he’s better than the fascist genocidal monster that wants to end whatever semblance of democracy we might have. This country is just the worst.

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    [–] 18 points 2 years ago (32 children)

    While voting for Biden is the right thing to do in these circumstances, Fetterman has zero understanding of optics and apparently the oil companies got to him judging by his pro-Israel stance.

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    [–] 17 points 2 years ago

    This guy turned heel pretty quickly.

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  • [–] [S] 16 points 2 years ago (2 children)

    Sen. John Fetterman (D-Pa.) panned Democrats who are upping their criticisms of President Biden ahead of the November election, saying they might as well don a “MAGA hat.”

    Fetterman noted during an interview an uptick in Democrats who have become more critical of Biden lately, and said it’s only helping former President Trump.

    Democracy! No longer allowed to question or criticize our politicians.

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    [–] 13 points 2 years ago

    Destin Sandlin, aka the Smarter Every Day guy, got some great advice from Obama about negative feedback which I think Fetterman should take to heart.

    But what else would I expect from someone from York?

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  • [–] 12 points 2 years ago

    It's like the saying "You catch more flies by being such a giant asshole people don't vote and kind of look forward to Trump throwing you in Gitmo in 2025"

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  • [–] 10 points 2 years ago

    Supreme Leader is above criticism, and to believe otherwise means you're the one in a cult.

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