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[–] 60 points 3 years ago (36 children)

There were no actual efforts to establish communism in eastern europe. Only autocratic regimes backed by soviet russia.

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  • [–] 14 points 3 years ago (3 children)

    I'm no too learned in the subject but what would "true" communism even look like on the large scale like a country? Would it even be feasible?

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  • [–] 27 points 3 years ago (4 children)

    True communism in a country is impossible.

    You can have socialism, or anarchy, which we've seen before, but communism cannot function in one country alone, unless said country is completely and absolutely self reliant.

    A major part of communism is internationalism, which is why socialist countries had the Comintern. (Communist International). Besides a political/social system, communism has a strong basis as an economic system. You can't apply communist economic system principles to the capitalist market.

    To my knowledge, no existing country is self reliant to the point that they can completely cut off trade with the rest of the world. USSR didn't do it, China didn't do it and they were the two biggest countries at the time.

    That, of course is all a very surface level ELI5, and if you want to ask something more specific or in depth, feel free to.

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  • [–] 11 points 3 years ago (2 children)

    Unless you’re an ultra-orthodox marxist, there is no such thing as trüe communism™.

    There always have been many different ideas what „communism“ is, e.g. there have been various „nationalist communist“ ideologies (complicated by the fact that the Russian SFSR called everything „nationalist“ that wasn’t 100% aligned with its ideas of the Soviet Union, e.g. Hungary).

    There are also no clear boundaries between communism, socialism, and anarchism, e.g. Kropotkin with his theories of anarchist communism.

    That being said, I don’t think communism is a system (either social or economic), it’s strictly an idealogy, meaning it’s a way to achieve something, i.e. the classless and stateless society. If you follow that thought to its logical end, you cannot even „achieve“ communism at all, since at this point e.g. the proletariat ceases to exist, and as a result you cannot have a „dictatorship of the proletariat“.

    It’s… complicated.

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  • [–] 9 points 3 years ago (1 child)

    In feel like you make it complicated to arrive at your conclusion here. Communism, as described by Marx and Engels and to some degree Lenin, is something very specific that covers most aspects of the society. Political, social and economic. Marx himself wrote books upon books on the economy of a socialist, communist system.

    It is not an abstract "I don't like capitalism so let's try something different" approach. And yes, many have tried to adapt it, as you mentioned which is why those different approaches carry a different name 'anarchist communism' in your example. Because they are different enough from flat out communism.

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  • [–] 5 points 3 years ago (2 children)

    No, I have a very easy explanation what communism is, it’s just that nobody else agrees is the issue.

    different approaches carry a different name

    Yeah, well... So let’s see, we have: Marxism, Leninism, Trotskyism, Stalinism, Titoism, Gulyáskommunizmus (both, as mentioned before, considered „nationalist communism“ by other communists), Rätekommunismus, Realsozialismus, Maoism …

    So, which one of those is the true communism?

    Joking aside, most of the 20th century was spent with people killing other people because they had slightly different opinions on what true communism means, so it’s really not me who made things complicated.

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  • [–] 2 points 3 years ago (5 children)

    And you keep using different names to describe them. As you should. Communism is not one thing and never was. But when people refer to base or true communism, the answer is just one.

    It's how it was defined in the communist manifesto in 1848. You could say it's Marxism, but I dislike that naming since others played a big role on forming it as well, like Engels and others who based on Marx's mostly economic study added the philosophical and political angles.

    Every theme or name change after the manifesto (that is not found in later revisions by the communist international) is attempts at adapting it with different angles and for different purposes and circumstances, aka NOT base or pure communism. Don't bundle everything in one basket and try to make sense, same way that bundling Putin's Russian form of Capitalism with US's imperialism and French Revolution's early capitalism together doesn't make sense either.

    He asked for pure communism, I answered for that. If he asked about Trotsky, I'd focus more on the permanent revolution and the Fourth International. If he asked of Stalin, I'd talk about his socialism in one country theory

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  • [–] 3 points 2 years ago* (1 child)

    Realistically, it would look something like how the Anarchists organized society in Catalonia during the Spanish Civil War, or how Rojava is organizing today with communal federations. Anarchism sidesteps the inevitable authoritarian regime that various Marxist theories have by not installing a 'temporary' vanguard state that quickly becomes autocratic and dictatorial, they just jump straight to decentralizing power immediately by giving it to the people.

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  • [–] [S] 5 points 3 years ago* (last edited 3 years ago) (3 children)

    And here comes the guy who thinks he can do it better, this time without mass killings.

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  • [–] 7 points 3 years ago

    Hey, I can think what happened in Eastern Europe was just authoritarian dictatorships, backed by Muscovite colonialism & branded as communism just the same as what happened in parts of South America was just authoritarian dictatorship, backed by American imperialism & branded as laissez-faire capitalism.

    Also I can think communism has never actually been tried, and that it’s functionally impossible (therefore people should stop advocating for it).

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  • [–] 4 points 3 years ago

    In what sense was it not an actual effort? Just because it quickly slid into non-marxism doesn't say anything about the initial idea of the revolutionaries. Bakunin predicted exactly what would happen with Marxism, and it did every time.

    If you are against an authoritarian state, the only viable way to communism is to skip the dictatorship part directly and just have anarchism.

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  • [–] 2 points 3 years ago

    There were no actual efforts to establish communism

    Period. Relying on the “temporary” government to relinquish their power is…foolish. If you’re building a system for the greater good, hierarchy will always undermine that goal. Unequal amounts of power does not a just system make.

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    [–] 25 points 3 years ago (7 children)

    The US political spectrum is leaning so far to the right. A US left is a France center or moderate right. So what Americans consider communism is merely what French consider moderate leftist.

    • I’m French living in the US
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    [–] 17 points 3 years ago (2 children)

    McCarthy propaganda go brrrr

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    [–] 5 points 3 years ago (8 children)

    More like: People on the internet being critical of the current system, Americans on the internet saying "COMMUNISM BAD" as if USSR style state capitalism is the only other possible option.

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    [–] 4 points 3 years ago (1 child)

    boomers destroyed the earth beyond all belief, poisoned everyone with sketchy ass chemicals, destroyed the economy more than once (twice in my life), most of us will NEVER own a home because the housed your grand pappy paid 100k for is now worth 2.5 million and average yearly wage is less than 30,000... among a million other things. The greed and entitlement is baffling, mix that in with delusional red scare propaganda that a ton of people fall for and yall mfers spending time defending all this insane shit.

    we effectively live in a corporate government where what the people want doesn't matter alongside the million other ways we are lied to and exploited. Billionaires and trillionaires run the world and they keep pushing for "the next thing" like the metaverse, blockchain and going mars while most of us cant even afford to fucking eat. Suck it. I guarantee that you cant even define communism and point out how it differs from social policies even on a very basic fundamental level. Fuck dude

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    [–] 3 points 3 years ago
    [–] 2 points 3 years ago (2 children)

    How dare teenagers not become Neoliberals while growing up in a late capitalist hellscape where climate change can't be taken seriously because it isn't a profitable problem to solve.

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    [–] 2 points 3 years ago

    Redditors try not to froth and post anticommunism for 120 seconds challenge (impossible!!!)

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  • [–] 2 points 3 years ago*

    Top: Filthy rich capitalists and Boomers that lick up their cool aid

    Bottom: Global South that produces both their wealth

    Blocking you I don't want another reddit experience

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  • [–] 2 points 3 years ago* (last edited 3 years ago) (29 children)

    7 out of 11 countries believe the end of the USSR harmed their countries rather than benefited them

    Reflecting back on the breakup of the Soviet Union that happened 22 years ago next week, residents in seven out of 11 countries that were part of the union are more likely to believe its collapse harmed their countries than benefited them. Only Azerbaijanis, Kazakhstanis, and Turkmens are more likely to see benefit than harm from the breakup. Georgians are divided.

    Hungary: 72% of Hungarians say they are worse off today economically than under communism

    A remarkable 72% of Hungarians say that most people in their country are actually worse off today economically than they were under communism. Only 8% say most people in Hungary are better off, and 16% say things are about the same. In no other Central or Eastern European country surveyed did so many believe that economic life is worse now than during the communist era. This is the result of almost universal displeasure with the economy. Fully 94% describe the country's economy as bad, the highest level of economic discontent in the hard hit region of Central and Eastern Europe. Just 46% of Hungarians approve of their country's switch from a state-controlled economy to a market economy; 42% disapprove of the move away from communism. The public is even more negative toward Hungary's integration into Europe; 71% say their country has been weakened by the process.

    Romania: 63% of the survey participants said their life was better during communism

    The most incredible result was registered in a July 2010 IRES (Romanian Institute for Evaluation and Strategy) poll, according to which 41% of the respondents would have voted for Ceausescu, had he run for the position of president. And 63% of the survey participants said their life was better during communism, while only 23% attested that their life was worse then. Some 68% declared that communism was a good idea, just one that had been poorly applied.

    Germany: more than half of former eastern Germans defend the GDR

    Glorification of the German Democratic Republic is on the rise two decades after the Berlin Wall fell. Young people and the better off are among those rebuffing criticism of East Germany as an "illegitimate state." In a new poll, more than half of former eastern Germans defend the GDR.

    28 percent of Czechs say they were better off under the Communist regime

    Roughly 28 percent of Czechs say they were better off under the Communist regime, according to a poll conducted by the polling institute SC&C and released Sunday.

    81% of Serbians believe they lived best in Yugoslavia

    A poll shows that as many as 81 per cent of Serbians believe they lived best in the former Yugoslavia -”during the time of socialism”.

    Majority of Russians

    The majority of Russians polled in a 2016 study said they would prefer living under the old Soviet Union and would like to see the socialist system and the Soviet state restored.


    The above memes are almost always made by Americans, whose brains are riddled with red scare brainworms and are completely devoid of any knowledge or understand of what the left thinks in Europe because Americans do not have a left.

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  • [–] 6 points 3 years ago (3 children)

    Hungarian here. We had ten good years, then the same ruling class started to do the same shit they did back then but under a different name. But at least nowadays you can leave the country, which many do since -- the frequent attempts to do so were an important cultural touchstone here in the 45 years of soviet occupation.

    Trust me, no one wants the same shit back, that's just a political talking point propping up Orbán's pro-russian bullshit.

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  • [–] 2 points 3 years ago* (last edited 3 years ago) (1 child)

    Another hungarian here. Definitely before 1989 Hungary was probably known for having one of the best living conditions under the USSR's sphere. It went pretty good in terms of spending power (heavy censorship in media if not aligned with the regime's view, forced labor, government spying agents everywhere, couldn't talk about 1956, etc.) until the 70's when Kádár (the dictator of the country) realized that he can't keep up these living standards, except if he takes up debt. So he literally taken up debt to keep up this facade, which really hit to us when we replaced the regime, and since the people have been so used to this kind of populist leadership type, they have chosen Orbán (current president) several times, despite the horrendous amounts of corruption, stomping freedom of speech, fearmongering, spying on opponents phones etc, just because he is really good at continuing the populist ideology which Kádár has done.

    EDIT: I'm not saying capitalism is good, I rather support a hybrid model which the EU does currently. Too much state intervention is bad, and too much freedom for corpos are also bad too. In my case my government happily accepts building factories in this country which 100% is better for agriculture, and these corpos doesn't have to pay much tax, can overtime workers and only pay them like 4 years later (yes this is legal).

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    [–] 2 points 3 years ago (3 children)
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    [–] 2 points 3 years ago (11 children)

    Well we're not praising fascism and corruption.

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    [–] 2 points 3 years ago

    western teenagers praising capitalism

    the children sewing their clothes, harvesting their food, mining their metals, ...

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  • [–] 2 points 3 years ago (9 children)

    Fuck Communism and fuck unchecked capitalism. People deserve basic human rights. Free heallthcare, education, insurance and liveable basic income is a must. It doesn't make your society full of freeloaders instead it gives all the people a chance to become what they want in the society. I hope that people can see this basic difference and we can work towards for a better future as humanity instead of whatever country title.

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