104
Extremism is fine if it's racist enough (lemmy.world)
submitted 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago) by to c/politicalmemes@lemmy.world
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[–] [S] 32 points 2 years ago (4 children)

And no the point of this meme is not to endorse one of these insane takes.

It's to address the hypocrisy of allowing one of them.

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  • [–] 18 points 2 years ago (1 child)

    Actually true, it's so bs move made by the mods, categorising anyone who is supporting Palestinians as tankies or terrorists, when leaving out zionists

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  • [–] 3 points 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago) (1 child)

    ~ 1/3 military kills is definitely not "indiscriminately killing". These numbers change everything.

    It's not a mass murder anymore. Oct7 was a justified targeted retaliation.

    -OP, 1 month ago

    Edit:

    Also most israeli civilians are IDF reservists so they are in fact uncounted soldiers. The IDF just called up 300.000 "innocent civilians" to commit genocide in Gaza? lmao.

    The best number is how little children were killed in compared to the total amount of people

    -Also OP, same thread

    Almost, forgot the most contradictory one of them all (emphasis mine):

    If they are IDF conscripts they're not civilians. Don't even dare to compare israeli colonists to Koreans.

    If people went into Hamas military service and become a "Hamas reservist" then you wouldn't even doubt to call those people terrorists.

    There are actual israelis that rejected IDF service and even people that advocates for peace that were killed which is very sad. But the majority are military.

    Sauce

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  • [–] [S] -3 points 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago) (1 child)

    Yes only 36 children out of 1139 deaths does indicate that it was not indiscriminate murder. Do link the evidence presented that the IDF shelled the kibbutzes, festival and fleeing cards themselves too you conveniently left that out. And that we have no footage of Hamas shooting any children. And the fact that America has aroud 90% civilian casualties, three times high than oct7, even while including the IDF shelling civilians themselves.

    The other posts are still completely true. The only difference is that you do not understand where to draw the line.

    The line is drawn at not killing unarmed, non resisting people.

    If you disagree with my later comments of non-armed IDF reservists not being affiliated with the IDF then you can in no way justify israel bombing any target in Gaza which they suspect as a Hamas member if that person is not actively armed.

    For one second do this mental exercise:

    If a Hamas soldier went through a Hamas training camp and is a Hamas member on reserve duty but did not participate in the october 7 attacks, is the IDF justified in killing this person when he is not holding a weapon?

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  • [–] 2 points 2 years ago (1 child)

    Yes only 36 children out of 1139 deaths does indicate that it was not indiscriminate murder.

    This is preposterous. You cannot refute a positive assertion with an incomplete set of negations. Assuming you meant that 36 children out of 1139 deaths does not indicate that it was indiscriminate murder, you would be correct, but the deaths of 695 Israeli civilians certainly indicates that it was, at best, indiscriminate murder of adults.

    you can in no way justify israel bombing any target in Gaza which they suspect as a Hamas member if that person is not actively armed.

    I made no attempt to justify the IDF bombing Gaza because I don’t think it is justified. The intention of my previous comment is clearly to point out the contradiction between this and your previous statements. Are you a tankie who says most of the Israeli adults killed were IDF conscripts directly affiliated with the army, or not?

    If a Hamas soldier went through a Hamas training camp but did not participate in the october 7 attacks, is the IDF justified in killing this person when he is not holding a weapon?

    When he is not holding a weapon? In most cases I would say no.

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  • [–] [S] -3 points 2 years ago (1 child)

    695 civilians certainly indicates that it was, at best, indiscriminate murder of adults.

    With almost 400 IDF active soldiers killed? You can never reach that percentage by indiscriminately murdering people. That is utterly impossible. You don't shoot everyone you see on sight and get a 1/3 active soldier death count.

    On the day of the attack there were multiple accounts of adults saying that Hamas did not shoot them. There were most definitely some guys that went rogue and shot civilians this is true, but the amount of civilians truly killed by Hamas has been greatly exaggerated. Most of the bodies burnt to a crisp were likely shelled by the IDF themselves.

    Israeli journalists are finding out more and more about how many lies were spread about what Hamas actually did on oct 7.

    Are you a tankie who says most of the Israeli adults killed were IDF conscripts directly affiliated with the army, or not?

    As you can see from previous numbers I am never counting conscripts as IDF in my numbers so no. Else I would have said that Hamas only had a 10% civilian causality rate. But I do not say that.

    You are right in that my post is incorrectly worded, I have forgotten to include that it's about justification of murdering them. While reservists are trained and affiliated with the army, as long as they are not serving on active duty killing them is wrong if they are not armed and fighting.

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  • [–] 2 points 2 years ago (1 child)

    With almost 400 IDF active soldiers killed? You can never reach that percentage by indiscriminately murdering people. That is utterly impossible. You don't shoot everyone you see on sight and get a 1/3 active soldier death count.

    I mean, it is if roughly 1/3 of the locations you attack are military encampments. Which begs the question: why did a “justified targeted [military] retaliation”, as you previously put it, result in majority civilian deaths, according to your own source? Also, it is disgusting to insinuate that October 7 was in any way tactical or justified.

    the amount of civilians truly killed by Hamas has been greatly exaggerated

    The initial numbers were indeed overestimates, but you have your work cut out for you if you want to prove that the majority of deaths were active military personnel.

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  • [–] [S] -3 points 2 years ago* (1 child)

    you have your work cut out for you if you want to prove that the majority of deaths were active military personnel.

    I'm not saying they were active personal. I'm saying the IDF killed many of them and blamed it on Hamas. Even hostages that were released by Hamas said that the IDF helicopter shot at them while they were kidnapped and driving towards Gaza.

    There are multiple israeli journalists that have reported on the IDF receiving orders to indiscriminately shoot at every vehicle they saw since they didn't know what was Hamas and what wasn't. And even the IDF shelling kibutzes with hostages inside.

    why did a “justified targeted [military] retaliation”, as you previously put it, result in majority civilian deaths, according to your own source

    I would have loved to see zero civilian casualties by Hamas. But they did kill non combatants that remains true. Those didn't seem to be orders from above though. Rather a few soldiers that were blinded by rage.

    May 12, 1997: ANC apologizes for deaths in anti-apartheid fight. But says struggle was justified

    The African National Congress formally apologized Monday for the killing of civilians by its guerrilla forces during the ANC's three-decade struggle against apartheid."We regret the deaths and injuries to civilians arising from armed actions.

    The ANC repeated its position that the armed struggle against the country's white-ruled government, which began in 1960, was a just war and that civilians had not been deliberately targeted.

    But the ANC statement said some of its guerrillas weren't sufficiently trained and "were never thoroughly under the discipline of the ANC."

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  • [–] 2 points 2 years ago (1 child)

    I'm saying the IDF killed many of them and blamed it on Hamas.

    I highly doubt the IDF was responsible for more than a handful of the 695 civilian deaths.

    Those didn't seem to be orders from above though. Rather a few soldiers that were blinded by rage.

    Then roughly 2/3 of Hamas soldiers were blinded by rage. Is it supposed to make me feel better that Hamas is comprised of mostly violent morons with no accountability rather than actively commanding their soldiers to murder civilians? Because it doesn’t, and fuck Hamas.

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  • [–] [S] -2 points 2 years ago (1 child)

    I highly doubt the IDF was responsible for more than a handful of the 695 civilian deaths.

    We went from 1400 to 1139 civilians killed. The IDF initially counted more then 250 Hamas fighters burnt to a crisp as israeli deaths. Often because they were next to hostages inside Kibbutes.

    First the IDF claimed that Hamas burnt those people alive. But it has become clear now that Hamas had hostages bound up and tried to swap them as a deal to get free. Then the tanks shot and killed everyone inside.

    Or did those 250 Hamas fighters in multiple locations spontaneously combust? Did they all randomly die themselves while putting people on fire for funsies? There are multiple pictures on the Oct7 propaganda site that we now know have been killed by the IDF from israeli witness statements.

    You can guess who killed someone based on how they died

    • If they were shot by a bullet, probably Hamas with AK's.

    • If they have a massive blast/burn wound and are missing a part of their body, probably Hamas with grenade or RPG.

    • If they were completely burnt to a crisp, probably an IDF tank shell or Hellfire missle from an Apache.

    Then roughly 2/3 of Hamas soldiers were blinded by rage. Is it supposed to make me feel better that Hamas is comprised of mostly violent morons with no accountability rather than actively commanding their soldiers to murder civilians? Because it doesn’t, and fuck Hamas.

    At least they very actively avoided killing children unlike the IDF is doing in Gaza with 11.000+ children dead. And a few adults

    In comparison with every other armed resistance against occupation in the past, Hamas has one of the lowest civilian casualty rates. Most resistances just kill everything and everyone. America has a 90% civilian casualty rate in their wars so even compared to western nations Hamas is doing better.

    Are they angels? Absolutely not. Some people in their ranks definitely committed heinous crimes and need to go to jail or them. Most of those had their entire family killed by israel so they just wanted revenge.

    But from the top down they're not genocidal maniacs that just want to kill everyone. Their plan was attacking military bases and taking hostages and the more time passes the more believable their claims have gotten.

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  • [–] 0 points 2 years ago (1 child)

    I… don’t even know where to start with this. You really drank the Kool-Aid, huh?

    You’re bending over backwards to defend Hamas, and most of what you’ve said so far has only hurt your case. I cannot fathom what made you think that comparing the October 7 attacks to universally reviled U.S. military interventions would convince anyone that Hamas is anything more than the truly repulsive organization that it is. That argument is also meaningless unless you consider those interventions to be acceptable, which at best means you haven’t spent much time considering the implications of your arguments.

    I also suspect you haven’t noticed the utter lack of pragmatism in your statements. If the October 7 attacks are justified and Hamas believes it should continue such attacks, Israel will not stop until every single Hamas soldier is dead out of a now genuine need for self-preservation. If 67% or 90% civilian casualties don’t matter, then the piles of Palestinian bodies don’t matter either. Unless you draw the line specifically at children, which you previously said you do not.

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  • [–] [S] -2 points 2 years ago (1 child)

    The only insane takes are the ones you are making. You would be out here condemning Hamas if they had a 1% civilian casualty rate but you have no problem sucking up to the IDF it seems.

    There is one party that is blocking the path to peace and it's israel. That has been the truth for 75 years. If you believe that Palestinians should all just lay down and die without resisting up you might as well grow a nice Mustache and put a Buddhistic symbol on your wall.

    Palestinians have tried every form of peaceful protest .In the West-Bank there are israeli terrorists shooting children to steal houses and Hamas doesn't even exist there.

    “You take my water, burn my olive trees, destroy my house, take my job, steal my land, imprison my father, kill my mother, bombard my country, starve us all, humiliate us all, but I am to blame: I shot a rocket back.”― Noam Chomsky

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  • [–] 1 point 2 years ago

    You would be out here condemning Hamas if they had a 1% civilian casualty rate but you have no problem sucking up to the IDF it seems.

    I have said literally nothing in support of the IDF. What part of my belief that the invasion of Palestine is unjustifiable don’t you understand?

    There is one party that is blocking the path to peace and it's israel. That has been the truth for 75 years.

    Yeah, no shit the trillion-dollar country is the instigator here. I never said anything to the contrary…

    The only insane takes are the ones you are making. *refutes none of my takes*

    This will be my last comment. It’s becoming increasingly clear that you’ve run out of steam, and possibly brain cells.

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  • [–] 18 points 2 years ago* (1 child)

    Man I float between lemmy and reddit to track some of these events, and I've never seen such terribly biased modding on reddit since this blew open.

    WorldNews and News over there is saturated with extremely petty authoritarians banning people for simply expressing a dissenting opinion in a clearly highly conservative pro-Israel sub.

    To Lemmy's credit I haven't seen that level of mod injection, yet...

    And not for the reason they think, but the top part of the meme is sort of right: IDF creates the next generation of terrorists by sowing the seeds of radicalization now. How odd that when one blows up countless families and leaves many orphans behind that the remaining individuals with rubble for homes have little in the way of options but radicalize. Self-fulfilling prophecy.

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  • [–] 13 points 2 years ago

    Reddit is filled to the brim with IDF LLM models jerking each other off. It actually made me migrate to Lemmy. Spez is must be extatic with the "engagement" numbers he's seeing.

    The "good news" is that the small minority of real users on Reddit is rapidly decreasing. Soon it will just be bots talking to bots

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  • [–] 14 points 2 years ago (2 children)

    We respond faster to reports. If you find a comment or post you feel is in violation of the rules, report it. We will review. Many of us moderate more than one community so reports are important to bring problematic posting ot our attention. If you don't feel that a report you have made is being addressed, by all means reach out so that we can discuss it.

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  • [–] 6 points 2 years ago*

    This post seems kinda manipulative. OP’s comment history is littered with the very claim that is purportedly being censored by Lemmy mods. Check out my other comment in this thread for examples.

    I guess if the goal is to “encourage” mods to remove comments attempting to justify the murders of thousands of Palestinian children—acts that I obviously agree are unjustifiable—then it’s a means to an end, but this account just seems strange to me.

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  • [+] -22 points 2 years ago (3 children)

    Thanks. Regardless of what you claim your intent was, this broke me. I’m done with Lemmy.

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    • [–] 16 points 2 years ago (3 children)

    Haven't been on Lemmy long, but does this shit happen here too?

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  • [–] [S] 22 points 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago) (2 children)

    There's less, but there are some insane Zionist posters that never seem to catch a ban, and their insane comments often stay up or only get removed after quite a delay

    Examples of clear Zionist posters that post actual insane takes are:

    (These are just examples from the top of my head but there's a few more.)

    Granted it's not nearly as insane here as on Reddit where the entire r/worldnews sub is filled with bots screaming for the genocide of every Palestinian child. But we have a few of them here.

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  • [–] 14 points 2 years ago

    Just went over to Reddit to see how it is and goddamn lmao. Even that new r/Isrealexposed subreddit gets astroturfed hard with known trolls being called in to defend genocidal actions taken by the IDF. Fucking wild.

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  • [–] 4 points 2 years ago (1 child)

    I don't know why people think Lemmy would be different. It's the same people as on Reddit, and mods have just as much trouble managing it.

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  • [+] -21 points 2 years ago (1 child)

    Literally one of the biggest Hamas propagandists replied to you. He'll make you belive that Hamas are saints protecting the Palestinians if you don't actually fact check his constant lies and statement twisting.

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  • [–] [S] 19 points 2 years ago (2 children)

    Thanks for showing up to the party Doombot. Good thing you're here to factually tell us all Palestinians are Hamas.

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  • [–] 13 points 2 years ago

    pushes up fake glasses “trust me, an internet stranger, I know for a fact all of the Palestinians are combatants and they all signed up willingly to join Hamas. The IDF would never commit a war crime and those that have been committed were by bad faith conscripts, but even then I just said all Palestinians are leaders of Hamas so it’s not a war crime. Source: my cognitive dissonance and whatever IDF propaganda tells me”

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  • [+] -11 points 2 years ago (1 child)

    Thanks for once again putting words in my mouth. Good know you speak for me more than I do. /s

    Seriously though, for anyone else reading. This is all he does. He will take whatever statements you make and just twist them into his little lies. I dare anyone to go through all of my history on here and show me one time where I called all Palestinians Hamas. Like literally made that statement, not just this liar claiming I did.

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  • [–] [S] 7 points 2 years ago (1 child)

    My man the evidence is already in this thread just scroll up a little.

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  • [+] -6 points 2 years ago (1 child)

    I'm confused, your quote does in no way equate all Palestinians with Hamas. Did you plan to quote something else?

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  • [–] [S] 7 points 2 years ago* (1 child)

    "Yes Hamas recruits children as long they are able to hold a gun" - Doombot_5

    What exactly do you believe these words mean? Along with him saying that Combatants are counted as civilians? I haven't seen a single instance of a child fighting for Hamas.

    You are free to scroll through the guy's comment history to find even more genocidal quotes. Try to replace the world "Palestinian" with israeli if you don't understand how this works.

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  • [+] -6 points 2 years ago (1 child)

    What exactly do you believe these words mean?

    That Hamas recruits children as for example confirmed by Amnesty International. And that Hamas makes no statement about the deaths they report whether they are Hamas fighters or not. Both statements are true whether you like it or not. And non of these statements is "genocidal". Do you even know what that word means?

    You are free to scroll through the guy's comment history to find even more genocidal quotes.

    How about you scroll through their comments and find actual proof of your accusations?

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  • [–] [S] 7 points 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago) (1 child)

    He said children as soon as they are able to hold a gun. So Hamas is supposedly recruiting 7 year olds. Your claim references to 2005 which is 20 years ago. So it's a straight up lie.

    Link me the evidence that you have,I'm curious to see it. In all the October 7 footage and footage after, I have not seen a single child Hamas fighter but I suppose you hold all the secret information.

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  • [+] -10 points 2 years ago (1 child)

    Hamas has been running training camps for children for years now. That's a known fact, go look it up.

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  • [–] [S] 9 points 2 years ago (1 child)

    Sure send me the link with the evidence you claim to have

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  • [–] 2 points 2 years ago (1 child)

    Here you go: https://www.timesofisrael.com/at-annual-summer-camps-hamas-trains-kids-to-fire-guns-kidnap-soldiers/

    Sounds like a summer camp every parent should be sending their children to, huh?

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  • [–] [S] -2 points 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago) (1 child)

    I'm seeing a bunch of children learning how to load a gun with an entire fanfic written next to it, how exactly are these Hamas combatants according to you?

    Or are you saying that it's okay to kill those kids because they had training kind of like.... IDF reservists?

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  • [–] 1 point 2 years ago (1 child)

    I don't know why you want children dead so much. It seems like that's the only thing you see when you read every comment.

    As for your so called fan fic, you can find your own Hamas favored sources for these kill the jews summer camps. I can't do all all your work for you. Some of us have real jobs that don't include spreading Hamas propaganda on Lemmy.

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  • [–] [S] -3 points 2 years ago (1 child)

    You're the only one saying that Palestinian children could be Hamas terrorists!!! and they surely aren't just innocent civilian casualties

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  • [–] 1 point 2 years ago (1 child)

    You're finally figuring it out. Some Palestinians children (which is anyone 19 years and older) are actually Hamas terrorists. That's still not the same as you wanting all Palestinian children dead.

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    • [+] -9 points 2 years ago

    Let's be real here, saying "IDF conscripts" is basically the same as saying "adult Israeli citizens" except for the religious wackos who are the biggest supporters of the war anyway

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