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[–] 59 points 2 years ago (1 child)

What happens if they write the communist manifesto before any works of Shakespeare?

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  • [–] 28 points 2 years ago (4 children)

    It's not literal.

    It's a way to explain that any result is possible.

    Like, throw some matter/energy in any closed system, and eventually, everything and anything possible will happen on an infinite timeline.

    So sure, 99.9999999999999999% are going to poop on it, but on an infinite scale, you'd get Shakespeare

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  • [–] 12 points 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago) (4 children)

    Well no. You can try to count every real number forever and you will miss infinitely many still. Some infinites are larger than others, hence I do not see any reason why "infinite time" would cover "every possibility happening". On the other hand, if you do have a mathematical proof you could refer to, I would be most grateful.

    EDIT: To write out my example, let us consider a machine that picks a random number between 3 and 4 every second. Then there is every second a nonzero chance that this machine (assuming true and not pseudo randomness) will pick, say pi. The range of numbers picked constitute the image of a function from the whole numbers to the real numbers (up to isomporphism), which cannot be surjective. Hence there are numbers not picked even though there was a > 0 chance of picking them every second for an infinite time.

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  • [–] 11 points 2 years ago

    Then there is every second a nonzero chance that this machine (assuming true and not pseudo randomness) will pick, say pi.

    No. The probability of picking any particular number from a uniform distribution is 0.

    On the contrary, since the works of Shakespeare are a finite string over a finite alphabet (I can formalize this argument if you want), the probability of typing them out after some fixed large number of keystrokes is some nonzero number 𝑝. With 𝑛 monkeys, the probability that at least one will type out the works is 1 − (1 − 𝑝)ⁿ, which goes to 1 as 𝑛 → ∞.

    Now, you are right that this does not mean that the works are guaranteed to be typed out. However, it has probability 1, so it’s mathematically “almost certain”.

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  • [–] 5 points 2 years ago (2 children)

    I hear what you are saying and agree. I never took the monkey Shakespeare theory seriously. It sounded a bit too poppy and quite honestly the guy that told me was a douche and pronounced giblets wrong. But as a theory you could get anything in a long enough time span and infinite amount of resources. Why or how that matters? Well I just don't see it.

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  • [–] 3 points 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago) (1 child)

    Of course I am not denying that anything possible could happen. That is contradictory to the assumption it was possible in the first place. What I am saying is just that not all that is possible will happen, even if given an infinite time to do so.

    EDIT: Unfortunately, given a setup like this the math says monkey Shakespeare will almost surely happen due to there only being finite variations.

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  • [–] 2 points 2 years ago (3 children)

    Infinite, sure. But the universe doesn't have infinite. There are SO many english words that just putting them together randomly it's still effectively impossible to generate a work of Shakespear.

    And even with as much tech as we can imagine, the universe is finite to our reach and especially to our time. The odds of randomly generating Shakespear is so low even using a processor the size of the sun, the heat death of the universe might happen first. It's theoretically possible, but so is a planet that spontaneously generates made of nothing but cheddar cheese.

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    [–] 18 points 2 years ago* (1 child)

    A finite number of monkeys would almost certainly just destroy their finite number of typewriters long before they randomly bashed out anything coherent, let alone Shakespeare. Infinite monkeys with infinite typewriters don't have that problem though. As long as it doesnt break the laws of physics it would eventually happen, no matter how unlikely it is. That's the whole point.

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  • [–] 13 points 2 years ago*

    This raises an interesting question: Do other primates even have the same anatomy to get carpal tunnel? It's just an inflammation of tissue in a very narrow part of the wrist that puts pressure on a nerve. Do monkies even have the same kind of tissues in the same narrow passage to get inflamed enough that it causes pressure on a nerve that gives mobility issues to their hands?

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  • [–] 11 points 2 years ago

    It's infinite monkeys over infinite time. Yeah, some would get carpel tunnel (an infinite number of them) and some would form labour unions (an infinite number of labour unions). There would be an infinite number of cults, and an infinite number of supreme leaders would rise. You'd have an infinite number of "it's almost Shakespeare but you got one character wrong", many more than complete Shakespeare works. And it would increase as you include more and more errors.

    With an infinite amount of monkeys, this would start happening in the minimum amount of time it takes for any of that to happen. You don't even really need infinite time once you have infinite monkeys, but finite monkeys with infinite time are different because then you have a finite number of outcomes and extinction might arrive before they have a chance to achieve each one.

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  • [–] 8 points 2 years ago

    “It was the best of times, it was the blurst of times… you stupid monkey!”

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  • [–] 8 points 2 years ago

    How can you get infinite monkeys to all stop writing?

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  • [–] 7 points 2 years ago (2 children)

    Reddit is basically prove that this theory is bullshit anyway.

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  • [–] 5 points 2 years ago (1 child)

    I dnn't know, we might get this gem from the monkeys first "It was the best of times, it was the blurst of times." I would consider that a win even more than the monkey's forming a very militant labor union.

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  • [–] 3 points 2 years ago

    I would think that monkey art, given a surplus of free time, would evolve at the pace of their own lived experiences and accumulated craft skills. Idk if we'd ever get Shakespeare, but we could very well get a more modern and ape-centric take on Planet of the Apes, Curious George, or Bedtime for Bonzo.

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  • [–] [S] 5 points 2 years ago (1 child)
  • [–] 14 points 2 years ago* (5 children)

    Always thought this was BS and Wikipedia confirms my assumption:

    In 2002, lecturers and students from the University of Plymouth MediaLab Arts course used a £2,000 grant from the Arts Council to study the literary output of real monkeys. They left a computer keyboard in the enclosure of six Celebes crested macaques in Paignton Zoo in Devon, England from May 1 to June 22, with a radio link to broadcast the results on a website. Not only did the monkeys produce nothing but five total pages largely consisting of the letter "S", the lead male began striking the keyboard with a stone, and other monkeys followed by urinating and defecating on the machine.

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  • [–] 5 points 2 years ago*

    You don't actually need infinite time if you have infinite monkeys with typewriters. If the typing is truly random, one of the moneys will type the complete works of Shakespeare on the first try. Or maybe infinitely many will, but then you start having to reason about different sizes of infinity.

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  • [–] 5 points 2 years ago

    It's a thought exercise and a metaphor, not literal

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  • [–] 4 points 2 years ago*
    [–] 4 points 2 years ago

    This cracked me up. Thanks. I needed this.

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  • [–] 4 points 2 years ago

    Me hiring monkey pinkertons for my infinite monkey theorem based publishing house, "wanna bet?"

    /s

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  • [–] 3 points 2 years ago

    We are what happens to the monkeys when they're done writing Shakespeare

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  • [–] 3 points 2 years ago

    Y'hear that America? Even monkeys don't have to rely on tips

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  • We're assuming spherical monkeys and unlimited tyranny

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  • [–] 3 points 2 years ago (1 child)

    It does make you wonder what monkeys given infinite time (and somehow being coerced into using typewriters) would evolve into.

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  • [–] 3 points 2 years ago

    I think they'd be more likely to dismantle and defecate all over the typewriters than they would be to do anything else with them.

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  • [–] 2 points 2 years ago

    You'd also have to pay them proper wages too, or they'd go on strike.

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  • [–] 2 points 2 years ago

    Usually they just end up using whatever motivation you provide to pay for sexual services instead, no?

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