top 50 comments

sorted by: hot top controversial new old
[–] 44 points 4 weeks ago (2 children)

Important bit of information: China gets subsidised parcel fee under an agreement of the World Post Association. They pay less for postage than European businesses shipping within the continent.

  • source
  • hideshow 4 child comments
  • [–] 29 points 4 weeks ago (4 children)

    Why is this not changed? Why all these additional taxes and hoops when they could simply cancels these subsidies?

  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 8 child comments
  • It's managed by the Universal Postal Union, which is part of the UN, and the organisation has been in effect in one form or another since 1874 with 192 members currently. International treaties between so many countries are extremely difficult to reform. It's much easier to make a new treaty than reform an existing one because there are so many vested interests in the current system.

    In this case, the subsidy is designed to help developing countries have fair access to the global post system. But when it was created, it was likely not envisioned that a developing country might become a rich country, nor that the postal system would become such an important part of e-commerce.

  • source
  • parent
  • [–] 6 points 3 weeks ago

    They're implicit subsidies.

    So here it goes: there's an international treaty saying basically "if a letter from your country is delivered in my contry, I'll deliver it for free and vice versa". So, you pay your national post some "international handling" so they e.g. deliver it to China, but in China the national post is now responsible for distribution and last mile for free, they don't see a part of your postage.

    So it's subsidized now by the Chinese post basically: they only charge cents for "international shipping" to their citizens and businesses, last mile is handled for free from the local national post offices.

    That system obviously was designed to work frictionless and easy in a time, where there was no globalized market to speak of.

    It's not so easy to reform and just cancel it might be a disadvantage as well: then all your other mailing stuff needs renegotiating as well. Just imagine the horror in canceling the treaty, and then you need to sit down with dealmaker Trump who sees an opportunity in order to get the US Post to handle your mail 😱

  • source
  • parent
  • [–] 26 points 4 weeks ago* (1 child)

    Look at who funded and lobbied for this, this isn't about protecting EU manufacturing, most of these companies manufacture their goods outside the EU and charge exorbitant prices for them.

    This is once again taking the power out of the proles hands.

    Parent Corporate Member Key Retail Brands & Subsidiaries Annual Revenue
    Schwarz Group Lidl, Kaufland, PreZero €185.6 Billion
    REWE Group BILLA, REWE, Penny, Toom Baumarkt, BIPA €100.4 Billion
    Ahold Delhaize Albert Heijn, Delhaize, Alfa Beta, Mega Image, Maxi, Albert €92.35 Billion
    Carrefour Group Carrefour, Carrefour Market, Express, AtacadΓ£o, Cora, Match €91.48 Billion
    Tesco PLC Tesco, Tesco Express, One Stop €82 Billion
    Inditex Zara, Pull&Bear, Massimo Dutti, Bershka, Stradivarius €36 Billion
    H&M Group H&M, COS, Monki, Weekday, & Other Stories, ARKET €21 Billion
    Colruyt Group Colruyt, Okay, Spar €11.19 Billion

    Credit to https://www.reddit.com/user/Interesting_Pie_319/ for the data.

    https://www.reddit.com/r/Aliexpress/comments/1ugpyoe/i_dug_around_a_bit_and_found_exactly_who_is/

  • source
  • hideshow 2 child comments
  • [–] 6 points 3 weeks ago (3 children)

    The difference is that these companies have to adhere to EU regulations, e.g. on harmful chemicals. Cheap Chinese products famously do not, often times to an absurd degree, exceeding limits by thousands of times.

  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 5 child comments
  • [–] 3 points 3 weeks ago

    and not forget sites like temu burn money to sell this stuff cheap while these have to actually run a profitable business. But 100 Billion Alibaba and 50 Billion Temu are the good guys in this, i guess

  • source
  • parent
  • load more comments (1 reply)
  • [–] 23 points 4 weeks ago (1 child)

    Kinda seems like a tax on the poor for being unable to afford better products.

  • source
  • hideshow 2 child comments
  • [–] 9 points 4 weeks ago (1 child)

    You don't get better products. You get products without safety testing, warranty or support. Clothes from some eastern brands have high amounts of chemicals that are forbidden in Europe because they cause cancer or infertility. Some type of escooter was banned in the UK some years ago because the dodgy electronics where responsible for multiple house fires. Iot devices or computers from some no name brand won't get updates if a hacker finds exploits to mine Bitcoins on it, or spy on you and capture your logins from your cheap temu wifi router.

  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 2 child comments
  • [–] 22 points 4 weeks ago (1 child)

    The only people that can import cheap Chinese stuff are corporations... don't you dare bypassing their money making schemes

  • source
  • hideshow 2 child comments
  • [–] 29 points 4 weeks ago* (1 child)

    No, that’s a very naive and uninformed viewpoint. The EU is being flooding with 100s of millions of packages with value-free SHEIN and temu stuff, the delivery services even do not know how to handle it anymore. It is a tremendous danger for local industry, it is very bad for the environment. Do some online research, you will be impressed with the impact of these cheap products literally flooding into the European Union.

  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 2 child comments
  • [–] 13 points 4 weeks ago* (1 child)

    Aren't those same cheap products coming in through corporations that sell it under some brand at triple the cost?

    The "local" industries have already been decimated by the big conglomerates which imported the same cheap Chinese stuff and sold it as a hilarious profit.

  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 2 child comments
  • [–] 8 points 4 weeks ago (8 children)

    It's not the same stuff, though. A lot of these products do not fulfill any product safety law. There have been lots tests of random products sold on these platforms, showing that many are unsafe and/or dangerous (just google). A business sourcing from China has to ensure that sold products are safe and fulfill legal requirements. And yes, for this "service" they charge higher prices, and sometimes even unjustifiedly.

  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 10 child comments
  • [–] 7 points 4 weeks ago* (last edited 4 weeks ago) (3 children)

    Right in the article they cite the analysis has numbers on a few groups of products like protrction equipment, makeup, and whether they pass EU standards. 60%-something do not. That also means 30%-something pass EU standards. That's a lot of quality cheap product. Of course as a consumer you can't tell whether you're getting something from the 35% pile or the 65% one. But that doesn't detract from the point of a lot of the cheap stuff in the category is the same stuff when it comes to EU standards.

    Here's an anecdote - years ago I really wanted a magnetic USB cable. Being skeptical of AliExpress stuff, especially electrical, I found a North American brans called Volta. Bought a cable. Cost me CAD $20 or $30. Some time after, I was browsing AliExpress for some specialty ebike parts that aren't imported in Canada, I took a look at the magnetic cables they got. After a few pages of results I found a suspiciously similar cable to the Volta sold by the manufacturer itself. $3-4 for a set with a few magnetic tips. Ordered one. Once it came, I meticulously compared it to the Volta. It was identical in every way. It even failed in the same weak spot after a couple of years of use as the Volta. So yeah, while not everything is the same, not everything is not the same either.

    Side note - the AliExpress prices are not the low prices available in other cheaper Chinese domestic retailers. Stuff on AliExpress already has significant markups. Volta did not pay $3-4 for that cable. They prolly paid $0.50-1 if even that much. They made exorbitant profit.

  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 3 child comments
  • load more comments (3 replies)
  • load more comments (6 replies)
  • [–] 17 points 4 weeks ago

    Should be specified that is not specific to Chinese imports, it's to any import from any country outside of EU

  • source
  • [–] 13 points 4 weeks ago (2 children)

    In the meantime Chinese companies built warehouses in Europe, which are importing the cheap goods en grosse. You're buying from a Chinese supplier, but the parcel is sent out from Europe.

  • source
  • hideshow 4 child comments
  • [–] 4 points 4 weeks ago* (last edited 3 weeks ago) (1 child)

    In the meantime Chinese companies built warehouses in Europe, which are importing the cheap goods en grosse.

    They probably weren't, at least for the things being described here, as the article is talking about de minimis.

    The de minimis exception basically let low-value packages through without paying import tariffs.

    There's some reason to do that


    it'd be more expensive to process the (many) low-value packages.

    However, this also meant that if someone imported something in small, low-value amounts, they didn't have to pay import tariffs, whereas people doing bulk imports did.

    This was a major reason for the explosion of Chinese online retailers in the West, like Temu. They'd sell something that was shipped directly from China, which meant that they didn't need to pay import tariffs on it. Traditional importers would import a large batch and would need to pay import tariffs, and then distribute the large batch from within the country in question, which penalized traditional retail.

  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 1 child comment
  • load more comments (1 reply)
  • [–] 11 points 4 weeks ago (1 child)

    Can they put an exclusion for electronic components? 90% of the shit isn't manufactured in the EU and local companies buy it from China and charge you 10x the price.

  • source
  • hideshow 1 child comment
  • load more comments (1 reply)
    [–] 10 points 4 weeks ago* (last edited 3 weeks ago) (3 children)

    on the principle that's fine, but it also means that DHL will add 6.50€ 7.50€ fees on top of that here in germany, which you can only pay in cash upon delivery, and they don't even carry change.

    edit: it's 7.50

  • source
  • hideshow 6 child comments
  • [–] 6 points 4 weeks ago (5 children)

    As long as it helps stopping people from buying this Chinese stuff, I’m fine with it! Buy local, buy ecological, buy less but valuable and durable products.

  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 9 child comments
  • [–] 12 points 4 weeks ago (6 children)

    Buy local, buy ecological

    Awesome, show me a local manufacturer who deals with speciality electronics and sensors and does them €3-4 apiece.

  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 7 child comments
  • [–] 6 points 4 weeks ago* (last edited 4 weeks ago) (2 children)

    Did you ever wonder why these Chinese products are so cheap, and why they are not produced in Europe anymore? I think you should read up on this! First, the Chinese keep to Yuan artificially at a very low level. This is already unfair, and continues to boost their economy. Second, they subsidize most companies that export into other countries, to aggressively gain market share. Their workers work under poor conditions, and for that reason are cheap Labor (as you probably know, some are even slaves;-). So while you are happy to save a couple of bucks, people in the EU are loosing jobs and factories are closing down. I saw this happening with Japanese cars and electronics in the 70s and 80s. Whole industries disappeared.

  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 3 child comments
  • load more comments (1 reply)
  • load more comments (5 replies)
  • [–] 11 points 4 weeks ago (1 child)

    Why?

    For example, i can order 25 $ Handguards for my bike, that are 100% identical to the original part, which costs 120 €

    I'm with you on certain things, but some companies just make a lot of money with overprizing

  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 2 child comments
  • [–] 7 points 4 weeks ago* (last edited 4 weeks ago)

    Am I missing something? The original costs 125 (why do you mention $, in the EU we pay in €??). Now you buy them for 25+3+6, so you still make a profit of 91? This new tax is not to prohibit you from buying Chinese. It’s intended to stop the flow of cheap products coming in, which is eroding European industry at a rapid pace. The choice is yours, do you want to protect our EU industry, or do you want to surrender all jobs China?

  • source
  • parent
  • [–] 3 points 4 weeks ago (1 child)

    provided it's something you can even buy here.

  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 2 child comments
  • [–] 5 points 4 weeks ago (1 child)

    You are right, it is extremely hard nowadays to buy anything that has not been produced in China, or that does not contain at least one component from China. This should worry all of us, since it means that all production has moved to China, and factories in European Union are being closed down, and people lose their jobs because of this. This fee can only be the first step to rescue European production.

  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 1 child comment
  • load more comments (1 reply)
  • load more comments (1 reply)
  • [–] 3 points 4 weeks ago (1 child)

    I'm not in Germany but DHL has a website where I can pay any fees. They usually text me a link when I have a package on the way.

    It's kinda bullshit that I had to pay a $17 service fee when the import fees were only $3, but at least they accepted digital payment...

  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 2 child comments
  • [–] 3 points 3 weeks ago* (last edited 3 weeks ago) (2 children)

    Germany is its own beast. For the longest time i couldn't pay electronically at the post office because they only accepted EC, and no Visa/Mastercard/Apple Pay. with my french bank i don't have that, so i had to bring cash always.

    this is the kind of e-mail i get when i have a delivery with customs fee:

    edit: and the most funny thing was that the amount in the e-mail wasn't even correct, so now i have my vat of coins i collect in a drawer to adjust to the final surprise amount that needs to be paid :>

    Your DHL shipment will be delivered to you today by your mail and package carrier.

    The import duties in the amount of €25.67 (including a €7.50 handling fee and the VAT included therein) are to be paid in cash upon delivery, with exact change if possible.

  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 3 child comments
  • load more comments (1 reply)
  • [–] 7 points 4 weeks ago

    It not just per parcel, but per product category. Multiple categories in one parcel multiple times €3 customs.

  • source
  • This is where the DIY electronics hobbyist scene in the EU dies.

    Good going corpos, you win. I'll just consume your media and goon at home.

  • source
  • [–] 6 points 3 weeks ago* (1 child)

    e-commerce in Europe is laughably bad no wonder people are turning to Temu and China and abroad in general. It's either Amazon or outdated brick stores with their own archaic tech that works sometimes, and surprises you with a couple extra fees every single checkout.

    The only redemption right now is Shopify rollout for boosting small shops which is hard to mess up but even that is being overtaken by scam spam.

    The service is just so bad that people will wait 2 weeks for potentially dangerous products and deal with customs just to save cup of coffee worth of money. The service is the issue not anything else.

  • source
  • hideshow 1 child comment
  • load more comments (1 reply)
    [–] 2 points 4 weeks ago (2 children)

    This can easily be bypassed by making group orders, don't know if the Chinese sites will bother.

    I import tea from China and Japan, wish there was good tea in Europe but that's not the case and the nice stuff is absurdly overpriced or impossible to find, so I will not stop but I will do my best to avoid this stupid tax.

  • source
  • hideshow 2 child comments
  • load more comments (2 replies)
    load more comments
    view more: next β€Ί