Incase anyone tells you that lemmy.ml is not a tankie instance.

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[–] 37 points 2 years ago* (4 children)

I’m referring more to the fact that Marx envisioned the populace rising up. What really rose in places like Russia and China was a group of self appointed elites who were really just reactionaries.

Tankies get mad because they believe that their utopia already exists and everyone else is an idiot for not ascribing to the same.

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  • [–] 22 points 2 years ago (1 child)

    That, again, is another reason why they are not really communist. “Workers of the world unite”

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  • [–] 11 points 2 years ago (1 child)

    Exactly. My point at that time was to say that it can happen but had not yet.

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  • [–] 11 points 2 years ago (2 children)

    From my (very limited) understanding of Marx and Engels I suggest your point is correct. I don’t understand how a full-fat, red flag waving comrade could come to any other conclusion… but then I have no dog in this fight and no emotional need to be correct.

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  • [–] 2 points 2 years ago (1 child)

    sadly there are many stalinists and moaists. the Russian revolution ended when stallin took power.

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  • [+] -6 points 2 years ago (1 child)

    What really rose in places like Russia and China was a group of self appointed elites who were really just reactionaries.

    Are you suggesting the Red Guard didn't exist and the Long March didn't happen?

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  • [–] 5 points 2 years ago (1 child)
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  • [–] 8 points 2 years ago* (1 child)

    I'll start over:

    Me: self appointed elites did this

    You: oh so you're saying that none of it happened?

    It's a non sequitur, it has nothing to do with the conversation.

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  • [+] -6 points 2 years ago (2 children)

    Me: self appointed elites did this

    Again, you really need to go back and read the history of the Chinese Revolution of you believe this. I might - at a bare minimum - crack open a copy of Fanshen or Life and Death in Shanghai. The idea that the Chinese Civil War and Cultural Revolution were waged by "elites" in any conceivable sense is flatly wrong. It is ahistorical to the point of being the opposite of truth. Like insisting George Washington was a First Nations native person or asserting the French Revolution was orchestrated by the Hapsburgs.

    At its ugliest, Chinese revolutionaries were arresting, beating, and executing anyone who might vaguely be defined as "elite". You were having people fight over whether parents should be executed for being landlords over their children. The opening scene of the Netflix "3 Body Problem" wasn't all that far from the truth - college professors were, in fact, getting hauled out in front of student committees for adhering to the texts of English and German physicists. The very idea of "elitism" was what was on trial during the hottest years of the revolution.

    It’s a non sequitur

    You don't know your history. You're saying things that are flatly, broadly, and totally incoherent.

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  • [–] 6 points 2 years ago

    The idea that the Chinese Civil War and Cultural Revolution were waged by “elites” in any conceivable sense is flatly wrong.

    Jesus fucking Christ.

    The very idea of “elitism” was what was on trial during the hottest years of the revolution.

    It was the process of creation of an entrenched counter-elite - a process which had been ongoing since at least WW2 in the CCP.

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