The brazen appearance of white supremacist groups in Nashville left the city grappling with how to confront hateful speech without violating First Amendment protections.

They first arrived at the beginning of July: dozens of masked white supremacists, shuffling out of U-Hauls, to march through Nashville carrying upside-down American flags.

A week later, members of a separate neo-Nazi group, waving giant black flags with red swastikas, paraded along the city’s famed strip of honky-tonks and celebrity-owned bars. The neo-Nazis poured into the historic Metro courthouse to disrupt a City Council meeting, harassed descendants of Holocaust survivors and yelled racist slurs at young Black children performing on a downtown street.

The appearance of white nationalists on the streets of a major American city laid bare the growing brazenness of the two groups, the Patriot Front and the Goyim Defense League. Their provocations enraged and alarmed civic leaders and residents in Nashville, causing the city to grapple with how to confront the groups without violating free speech protections.

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[+] -6 points 2 years ago (3 children)

So left-wing protesters should continue to be arrested as long as Nazis are also arrested? Really?

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  • [–] 24 points 2 years ago (1 child)

    So left-wing protesters should continue to be arrested as long as Nazis are also arrested? Really?

    ... what? Not arresting Nazis isn't going to magically un-arrest left-wing protesters.

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  • [–] -2 points 2 years ago (2 children)

    It's also not going to arrest Nazis that have already done these things. So how about we don't arrest anyone for protesting and just make it legal from now on?

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  • [–] 6 points 2 years ago (1 child)

    It’s also not going to arrest Nazis that have already done these things.

    You're fucking kidding me, right? You don't pre-arrest people. You arrest people after they've done shit.

    So how about we don’t arrest anyone for protesting and just make it legal from now on?

    God, why didn't we think of that brilliant solution before? How many left-wing lawyers and political organizations have simply overlooked that we can just make it legal to protest?

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  • [–] -3 points 2 years ago (1 child)

    I see, this is one of these "never try" situations. We could never stop left-wing protesters from being arrested so we should never try to stop it and advocate for that to end and instead just call for other people to be arrested too.

    Because we shouldn't want people to have rights, we should want other people's rights taken away.

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  • [–] 7 points 2 years ago (1 child)

    I see, this is one of these “never try” situations. We could never stop left-wing protesters from being arrested so we should never try to stop it and advocate for that to end and instead just call for other people to be arrested too.

    No, it's apparently one of those noble martyrdom things, where the correct response to getting brutalized by Nazis is to roll over and show how very moral you are by just passively taking it.

    Because we shouldn’t want people to have rights, we should want other people’s rights taken away.

    You do realize that this is already happening to left-wing protesters, right? The only thing you're advocating for is that left-wing protesters get the full force of the state laid down on them while Nazis are allowed to roam free because "It wouldn't be fair" to apply the same goddamn laws to them as long as those laws are on the books.

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  • [–] -2 points 2 years ago (1 child)

    You've convinced me. Never try to get back rights that were taken away from you. Just get vengeance.

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  • [–] 5 points 2 years ago (1 child)

    Vengeance is when you show why mutual disarmament is a good idea instead of showing that you won't fight back, and the less you fight back, the less vengeful you are.

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  • [–] -2 points 2 years ago (1 child)

    Got it. Fight back, but not for your rights which have been taken away from you.

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  • [–] 3 points 2 years ago (1 child)

    You do realize a society can do more than one thing at a time, right?

    Like, demanding police chiefs to arrest Nazis under the same circumstances that they arrest left-wing protesters is not going to magically diminish the work of left-wing lawyers and politicians to redefine the rules so that protesters, in general, are not being arrested. Even application is kind of the point of laws, and not simply allowing but actually advocating that an unequal application of the law be perpetuated (because it wouldn't be fair if the Nazis got the same treatment as left-wing protesters) is, itself, incredibly damaging to the legitimacy of the government as a whole.

    Fuck's sake.

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  • [–] 3 points 2 years ago (1 child)

    Like, demanding police chiefs to arrest Nazis under the same circumstances that they arrest left-wing protesters is not going to magically diminish the work of left-wing lawyers and politicians to redefine the rules so that protesters, in general, are not being arrested.

    That... was literally what I was saying.

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  • [–] 1 point 2 years ago (1 child)

    That… was literally what I was saying.

    Read it again.

    Like, demanding police chiefs to arrest Nazis under the same circumstances that they arrest left-wing protesters is not going to magically diminish the work of left-wing lawyers and politicians to redefine the rules so that protesters, in general, are not being arrested.

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  • [–] 1 point 2 years ago (1 child)

    Okay, but it won't happen, so what's the point of demanding it rather than just working to redefine those roles and working to elect politicians who will do so?

    It reminds me of some vegans who go out and protest meat eating. That's not going to stop people eating meat. Working on campaigns to convince people why they should stop eating meat is what should be concentrated on.

    I do not see what demanding they be arrested accomplishes when you and I both know they won't be.

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  • [–] 2 points 2 years ago* (1 child)

    Okay, but it won’t happen so what’s the point of demanding it

    This you?

    I see, this is one of these “never try” situations. We could never stop left-wing protesters from being arrested so we should never try to stop it and advocate for that to end

    And furthermore, it's a lot easier to get cops to arrest people than to get cops to not arrest people.

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  • [–] 2 points 2 years ago (1 child)

    I don't know how I could have been any more clear that I was being sarcastic.

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  • [–] 2 points 2 years ago (1 child)

    ... yes. You were being sarcastic. Which is what makes that response contradict your current point.

    You mock the idea that we should never try to stop something because "We could never stop it", yet, then say, without any sarcasm or irony, "Okay, but it won’t happen so what’s the point of demanding it" on another issue.

    Do you... not see the contradiction?

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  • [–] 1 point 2 years ago (1 child)

    I'm saying arresting Nazis won't happen but changing the laws to make it so that protesters won't get arrested at all is a possibility, especially on a regional or local level.

    One relies on the cops cooperating. The other relies on just telling them they can't even be there.

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  • [–] 3 points 2 years ago* (1 child)

    I’m saying arresting Nazis won’t happen

    Yes, and you dismiss the idea of attempting it because "it will never happen" after mocking the approach of "It won't happen so why try".

    I legitimately don't know how to simplify this any further.

    One relies on the cops cooperating. The other relies on just telling them they can’t even be there.

    Do you... do you think the cops listen when they're told not to be somewhere and they want to be there? Do you think that's not cooperation?

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  • [–] 2 points 2 years ago (1 child)

    Yes. I think cops will not go places if they're told they will be facing things like fines if they do. They like getting paid.

    And I think it's much easier to do that on a local level than telling them to go arrest the Nazis.

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  • [–] 2 points 2 years ago (1 child)

    Yes. I think cops will not go places if they’re told they will be facing things like fines if they do. They like getting paid.

    So there's the power to coerce cops to follow the law, but not the power to coerce cops to do their job and ensure others are following the law. Do we have the power to make cops enforce any laws?

    And I think it’s much easier to do that on a local level than telling them to go arrest the Nazis.

    You think it's easier to make cops respect people's rights than it is to get them to arrest people they don't give a fuck about.

    Okay.

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  • [–] 1 point 2 years ago

    So there’s the power to coerce cops to follow the law, but not the power to coerce cops to do their job and ensure others are following the law. Do we have the power to make cops enforce any laws?

    Yes. It's called money.

    You think it’s easier to make cops respect people’s rights than it is to get them to arrest people they don’t give a fuck about.

    Yes, if it costs them money.

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  • [–] 7 points 2 years ago (1 child)

    Left-wing protestors not getting arrested isn't even on the table here, so I don't see why the argument should be couched based on that.

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  • [–] 0 points 2 years ago (1 child)

    Why isn't it on the table? Shouldn't it be on the table?

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  • [–] 1 point 2 years ago (1 child)

    Because allowing these nazis to continue marching in the street will have zero impact on what happens to left-wing protestors, and denying these nazis the right to march on the streets will also have zero impact on what happens to left-wing protestors.

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  • [–] 1 point 2 years ago (1 child)

    Okay, but you said left-wing protesters not getting arrested isn't on the table. Why not? Why shouldn't we do what we can to change that?

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  • [–] 1 point 2 years ago (1 child)

    Yes, but I don't see how that applies to this situation. The jack boots who arrest people for expressing their First Amendment rights aren't going to stop just because some neo nazis were allowed to harass people on the streets via some left-wing action. They don't care about fairness or our rights and many of them are probably sympathetic to extreme right-wing groups.

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  • [–] 1 point 2 years ago

    I can't believe I have to keep explaining this... Cops do not do things if they are not paid. If you pass a law saying that cops will be fined for arresting protesters, they won't arrest protesters. They may be right-wing, they may be thugs, but they don't do things for free most of the time.

    Is that really beyond the pale for a local municipality to pass such a law?

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  • [–] 4 points 2 years ago (1 child)

    Left-wing protestors respect the social contract. NAZIs don't, and therefore do not deserve to be protected by it.

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  • [–] 0 points 2 years ago (1 child)

    People don't deserve equal rights under the law? Are you sure that's the position you want to take up? Because it sounds like a very Republican position.

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  • [–] 1 point 2 years ago* (1 child)

    Punching NAZIs is always self-defense, even if they haven't punched you yet. 'Cause they're going to, 'cause that's what NAZIs do.

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  • [–] 0 points 2 years ago (1 child)

    So you are saying that yes, the law should be applied unequally.

    As I said, Republicans agree with that position. You and they are just at odds with who the same laws should help and who the same laws should oppress.

    Free speech for me and not for thee has been one of their modus operandi for a long time now.

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  • [–] 1 point 2 years ago (1 child)

    I'm not arguing with you about this semantic bullshit. To be a NAZI is to declare your intent to commit a crime. NAZIism is a criminal conspiracy.

    There is no "equal protection" issue here, unless you think criminals deserve to be protected.

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  • [–] 0 points 2 years ago (1 child)

    Please show that your claim has a legal basis in U.S. law.

    Because I can show you the basis for a right to protest. It's right in the Constitution.

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  • [–] 1 point 2 years ago (1 child)

    Did I even once mention US law? Did I say anything about prosecuting the NAZIs? Did I say anything -- anything at all -- about the government doing anything about them?

    No. I said it is right and good to fuck them up.

    Now quit being a goddamn apologist and deliberately trying to misrepresent my arguments.

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