▲ 1962 ▼ Today GNU/Linux is 32 years old (lemmy.ml) submitted 2 years ago by DeaDSouL@lemmy.ml to c/linux@lemmy.ml 169 comments fedilink hide all child comments Happy birthday 🎊🎉 GNU/Linux. Today GNU/Linux is 32 years old. It was thankfully released to the public on August 25th, 1991 by Linus Torvalds when he was only 21 years old student. What a lovely journey 🤍
[–] RedWeasel@lemmy.world 68 points 2 years ago (2 children) Sure it aged well. WAY WAY BIGGER than gnu. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 4 child comments replies: [–] wgs@lemmy.sdf.org 57 points 2 years ago (1 child) Weight your words my friend! GNU's a behemoth ! GCC alone is almost as big as Linux. Add core/binutils, the Hurd, ... And you easily outclass the kernel itself ! ~ $ du -sh linux-6.4.12/ gcc-13.2.0/ 1.5G linux-6.4.12/ 1.1G gcc-13.2.0/ Oh, and Emacs. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] Emanuel@lemmy.eco.br 11 points 2 years ago (1 child) Speaking as someone that doesn't understand computers very well: is Hurd usable as a kernel nowadays? permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] kionite231@lemmy.ca 11 points 2 years ago (1 child) Yes if you cherry pick the hardware :) permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] flashgnash@lemm.ee 6 points 2 years ago (3 children) What is actually the point of using hurd other than being able to say you use Hurd though? permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 6 child comments replies: [–] Dunstabzugshaubitze@feddit.de 9 points 2 years ago (1 child) Maybe it hurds in a good way. Nah, it's a kernel it does kernel stuff and does not offer anything a normal user notices compared to other kernels. It might be interesting for people who work on kernels just to see different ways on how to solve common problems. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] KSPAtlas@sopuli.xyz 2 points 2 years ago afaik microkernels have a security advantage since kernel modules do not share the same address space as the main kernel or other modules permalink fedilink source parent [–] schnurrito@discuss.tchncs.de 4 points 2 years ago Possibly licensing reasons. Linux is GPLv2 only, Hurd seems to be GPLv2 or later, there could be reasons you may want to use something under the GPLv3. permalink fedilink source parent [–] jsnc@lemmy.blahaj.zone 3 points 2 years ago Hurd is not a monolithic kernel, so it's an interesting technical endeavor. It's also a GNU package which means it's guaranteed to stay libre. Hurd is also a smaller project relative to linux without the many eyes of the Linux board members. permalink fedilink source parent [–] beyond@linkage.ds8.zone 20 points 2 years ago (4 children) That's debatable, since what people generally call "Linux" is more GNU than Linux anyway. "Linux" as the Linux fandom considers is it big and professional like GNU, because it is GNU (among other things). permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 8 child comments replies: [–] xill47@lemm.ee 11 points 2 years ago (1 child) But what about Linux distributions compiled without GNU tools? Most popular Linux distribution's kernel currently is compiled with Clang, not GCC, and as far as I am aware does not include anything from GNU. Of course Linux is historically influenced by GNU, but in current day and age they are orthogonal permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] duncesplayed@lemmy.one 2 points 2 years ago (1 child) It doesn't change the larger point that GNU is way bigger than Linux, though. There are a tonne of things that are larger than Linux, and GNU is one of them. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] xill47@lemm.ee 4 points 2 years ago* (1 child) That is an entirely different argument which I did not contest and the comment I have answered to did not make EDIT: Although, it depends on what we define as "bigger". Binary size is certainly bigger, but user adoption is abysmal comparatively. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] beyond@linkage.ds8.zone 1 point 2 years ago (1 child) but user adoption is abysmal comparatively I guess this is a matter of perspective. What I was saying in my previous comment is that what people commonly refer to as "Linux" (as in "Linux distributions") is not just Linux (which is just a kernel) but also includes a bunch of other stuff, including GNU (that is what GNU/Linux refers to). If you're talking about the actual thing called Linux, you'd be right, because most GNU systems are GNU/Linux systems, whereas arguably most Linux systems are not GNU systems; Alpine and Android are non-GNU Linux systems. However, if like many in the Linux fandom you discount Android, then most Linux systems are GNU systems and vice-versa. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] xill47@lemm.ee 3 points 2 years ago* (1 child) Why would I discount the most popular applications of the kernel? That is almost the whole userbase permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] beyond@linkage.ds8.zone 1 point 2 years ago I wouldn't either, but you see the sentiment especially among the !linuxphones@lemmy.ml crowd. The fact that Android is Linux is significant because it does in fact allow you to run so-called "Linux apps" (either under Termux or under a dedicated chroot set up by something like UserLAnd) and that is something to be lauded. Android has problems but not being "real Linux" is not among them. permalink fedilink source parent [–] RickyRigatoni@lemmy.ml 5 points 2 years ago Allow me to interject for a moment... permalink fedilink source parent [–] jsnc@lemmy.blahaj.zone 2 points 2 years ago I mean the GPL allowed linux to become a commercial entity. And the whole "professional" outlook is because theres a ton of companies who contribute either funds or development to the project. permalink fedilink source parent [–] b3nsn0w@pricefield.org 2 points 2 years ago hi rms permalink fedilink source parent
[–] wgs@lemmy.sdf.org 57 points 2 years ago (1 child) Weight your words my friend! GNU's a behemoth ! GCC alone is almost as big as Linux. Add core/binutils, the Hurd, ... And you easily outclass the kernel itself ! ~ $ du -sh linux-6.4.12/ gcc-13.2.0/ 1.5G linux-6.4.12/ 1.1G gcc-13.2.0/ Oh, and Emacs. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] Emanuel@lemmy.eco.br 11 points 2 years ago (1 child) Speaking as someone that doesn't understand computers very well: is Hurd usable as a kernel nowadays? permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] kionite231@lemmy.ca 11 points 2 years ago (1 child) Yes if you cherry pick the hardware :) permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] flashgnash@lemm.ee 6 points 2 years ago (3 children) What is actually the point of using hurd other than being able to say you use Hurd though? permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 6 child comments replies: [–] Dunstabzugshaubitze@feddit.de 9 points 2 years ago (1 child) Maybe it hurds in a good way. Nah, it's a kernel it does kernel stuff and does not offer anything a normal user notices compared to other kernels. It might be interesting for people who work on kernels just to see different ways on how to solve common problems. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] KSPAtlas@sopuli.xyz 2 points 2 years ago afaik microkernels have a security advantage since kernel modules do not share the same address space as the main kernel or other modules permalink fedilink source parent [–] schnurrito@discuss.tchncs.de 4 points 2 years ago Possibly licensing reasons. Linux is GPLv2 only, Hurd seems to be GPLv2 or later, there could be reasons you may want to use something under the GPLv3. permalink fedilink source parent [–] jsnc@lemmy.blahaj.zone 3 points 2 years ago Hurd is not a monolithic kernel, so it's an interesting technical endeavor. It's also a GNU package which means it's guaranteed to stay libre. Hurd is also a smaller project relative to linux without the many eyes of the Linux board members. permalink fedilink source parent
[–] Emanuel@lemmy.eco.br 11 points 2 years ago (1 child) Speaking as someone that doesn't understand computers very well: is Hurd usable as a kernel nowadays? permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] kionite231@lemmy.ca 11 points 2 years ago (1 child) Yes if you cherry pick the hardware :) permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] flashgnash@lemm.ee 6 points 2 years ago (3 children) What is actually the point of using hurd other than being able to say you use Hurd though? permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 6 child comments replies: [–] Dunstabzugshaubitze@feddit.de 9 points 2 years ago (1 child) Maybe it hurds in a good way. Nah, it's a kernel it does kernel stuff and does not offer anything a normal user notices compared to other kernels. It might be interesting for people who work on kernels just to see different ways on how to solve common problems. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] KSPAtlas@sopuli.xyz 2 points 2 years ago afaik microkernels have a security advantage since kernel modules do not share the same address space as the main kernel or other modules permalink fedilink source parent [–] schnurrito@discuss.tchncs.de 4 points 2 years ago Possibly licensing reasons. Linux is GPLv2 only, Hurd seems to be GPLv2 or later, there could be reasons you may want to use something under the GPLv3. permalink fedilink source parent [–] jsnc@lemmy.blahaj.zone 3 points 2 years ago Hurd is not a monolithic kernel, so it's an interesting technical endeavor. It's also a GNU package which means it's guaranteed to stay libre. Hurd is also a smaller project relative to linux without the many eyes of the Linux board members. permalink fedilink source parent
[–] kionite231@lemmy.ca 11 points 2 years ago (1 child) Yes if you cherry pick the hardware :) permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] flashgnash@lemm.ee 6 points 2 years ago (3 children) What is actually the point of using hurd other than being able to say you use Hurd though? permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 6 child comments replies: [–] Dunstabzugshaubitze@feddit.de 9 points 2 years ago (1 child) Maybe it hurds in a good way. Nah, it's a kernel it does kernel stuff and does not offer anything a normal user notices compared to other kernels. It might be interesting for people who work on kernels just to see different ways on how to solve common problems. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] KSPAtlas@sopuli.xyz 2 points 2 years ago afaik microkernels have a security advantage since kernel modules do not share the same address space as the main kernel or other modules permalink fedilink source parent [–] schnurrito@discuss.tchncs.de 4 points 2 years ago Possibly licensing reasons. Linux is GPLv2 only, Hurd seems to be GPLv2 or later, there could be reasons you may want to use something under the GPLv3. permalink fedilink source parent [–] jsnc@lemmy.blahaj.zone 3 points 2 years ago Hurd is not a monolithic kernel, so it's an interesting technical endeavor. It's also a GNU package which means it's guaranteed to stay libre. Hurd is also a smaller project relative to linux without the many eyes of the Linux board members. permalink fedilink source parent
[–] flashgnash@lemm.ee 6 points 2 years ago (3 children) What is actually the point of using hurd other than being able to say you use Hurd though? permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 6 child comments replies: [–] Dunstabzugshaubitze@feddit.de 9 points 2 years ago (1 child) Maybe it hurds in a good way. Nah, it's a kernel it does kernel stuff and does not offer anything a normal user notices compared to other kernels. It might be interesting for people who work on kernels just to see different ways on how to solve common problems. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] KSPAtlas@sopuli.xyz 2 points 2 years ago afaik microkernels have a security advantage since kernel modules do not share the same address space as the main kernel or other modules permalink fedilink source parent [–] schnurrito@discuss.tchncs.de 4 points 2 years ago Possibly licensing reasons. Linux is GPLv2 only, Hurd seems to be GPLv2 or later, there could be reasons you may want to use something under the GPLv3. permalink fedilink source parent [–] jsnc@lemmy.blahaj.zone 3 points 2 years ago Hurd is not a monolithic kernel, so it's an interesting technical endeavor. It's also a GNU package which means it's guaranteed to stay libre. Hurd is also a smaller project relative to linux without the many eyes of the Linux board members. permalink fedilink source parent
[–] Dunstabzugshaubitze@feddit.de 9 points 2 years ago (1 child) Maybe it hurds in a good way. Nah, it's a kernel it does kernel stuff and does not offer anything a normal user notices compared to other kernels. It might be interesting for people who work on kernels just to see different ways on how to solve common problems. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] KSPAtlas@sopuli.xyz 2 points 2 years ago afaik microkernels have a security advantage since kernel modules do not share the same address space as the main kernel or other modules permalink fedilink source parent
[–] KSPAtlas@sopuli.xyz 2 points 2 years ago afaik microkernels have a security advantage since kernel modules do not share the same address space as the main kernel or other modules permalink fedilink source parent
[–] schnurrito@discuss.tchncs.de 4 points 2 years ago Possibly licensing reasons. Linux is GPLv2 only, Hurd seems to be GPLv2 or later, there could be reasons you may want to use something under the GPLv3. permalink fedilink source parent
[–] jsnc@lemmy.blahaj.zone 3 points 2 years ago Hurd is not a monolithic kernel, so it's an interesting technical endeavor. It's also a GNU package which means it's guaranteed to stay libre. Hurd is also a smaller project relative to linux without the many eyes of the Linux board members. permalink fedilink source parent
[–] beyond@linkage.ds8.zone 20 points 2 years ago (4 children) That's debatable, since what people generally call "Linux" is more GNU than Linux anyway. "Linux" as the Linux fandom considers is it big and professional like GNU, because it is GNU (among other things). permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 8 child comments replies: [–] xill47@lemm.ee 11 points 2 years ago (1 child) But what about Linux distributions compiled without GNU tools? Most popular Linux distribution's kernel currently is compiled with Clang, not GCC, and as far as I am aware does not include anything from GNU. Of course Linux is historically influenced by GNU, but in current day and age they are orthogonal permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] duncesplayed@lemmy.one 2 points 2 years ago (1 child) It doesn't change the larger point that GNU is way bigger than Linux, though. There are a tonne of things that are larger than Linux, and GNU is one of them. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] xill47@lemm.ee 4 points 2 years ago* (1 child) That is an entirely different argument which I did not contest and the comment I have answered to did not make EDIT: Although, it depends on what we define as "bigger". Binary size is certainly bigger, but user adoption is abysmal comparatively. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] beyond@linkage.ds8.zone 1 point 2 years ago (1 child) but user adoption is abysmal comparatively I guess this is a matter of perspective. What I was saying in my previous comment is that what people commonly refer to as "Linux" (as in "Linux distributions") is not just Linux (which is just a kernel) but also includes a bunch of other stuff, including GNU (that is what GNU/Linux refers to). If you're talking about the actual thing called Linux, you'd be right, because most GNU systems are GNU/Linux systems, whereas arguably most Linux systems are not GNU systems; Alpine and Android are non-GNU Linux systems. However, if like many in the Linux fandom you discount Android, then most Linux systems are GNU systems and vice-versa. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] xill47@lemm.ee 3 points 2 years ago* (1 child) Why would I discount the most popular applications of the kernel? That is almost the whole userbase permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] beyond@linkage.ds8.zone 1 point 2 years ago I wouldn't either, but you see the sentiment especially among the !linuxphones@lemmy.ml crowd. The fact that Android is Linux is significant because it does in fact allow you to run so-called "Linux apps" (either under Termux or under a dedicated chroot set up by something like UserLAnd) and that is something to be lauded. Android has problems but not being "real Linux" is not among them. permalink fedilink source parent [–] RickyRigatoni@lemmy.ml 5 points 2 years ago Allow me to interject for a moment... permalink fedilink source parent [–] jsnc@lemmy.blahaj.zone 2 points 2 years ago I mean the GPL allowed linux to become a commercial entity. And the whole "professional" outlook is because theres a ton of companies who contribute either funds or development to the project. permalink fedilink source parent [–] b3nsn0w@pricefield.org 2 points 2 years ago hi rms permalink fedilink source parent
[–] xill47@lemm.ee 11 points 2 years ago (1 child) But what about Linux distributions compiled without GNU tools? Most popular Linux distribution's kernel currently is compiled with Clang, not GCC, and as far as I am aware does not include anything from GNU. Of course Linux is historically influenced by GNU, but in current day and age they are orthogonal permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] duncesplayed@lemmy.one 2 points 2 years ago (1 child) It doesn't change the larger point that GNU is way bigger than Linux, though. There are a tonne of things that are larger than Linux, and GNU is one of them. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] xill47@lemm.ee 4 points 2 years ago* (1 child) That is an entirely different argument which I did not contest and the comment I have answered to did not make EDIT: Although, it depends on what we define as "bigger". Binary size is certainly bigger, but user adoption is abysmal comparatively. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] beyond@linkage.ds8.zone 1 point 2 years ago (1 child) but user adoption is abysmal comparatively I guess this is a matter of perspective. What I was saying in my previous comment is that what people commonly refer to as "Linux" (as in "Linux distributions") is not just Linux (which is just a kernel) but also includes a bunch of other stuff, including GNU (that is what GNU/Linux refers to). If you're talking about the actual thing called Linux, you'd be right, because most GNU systems are GNU/Linux systems, whereas arguably most Linux systems are not GNU systems; Alpine and Android are non-GNU Linux systems. However, if like many in the Linux fandom you discount Android, then most Linux systems are GNU systems and vice-versa. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] xill47@lemm.ee 3 points 2 years ago* (1 child) Why would I discount the most popular applications of the kernel? That is almost the whole userbase permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] beyond@linkage.ds8.zone 1 point 2 years ago I wouldn't either, but you see the sentiment especially among the !linuxphones@lemmy.ml crowd. The fact that Android is Linux is significant because it does in fact allow you to run so-called "Linux apps" (either under Termux or under a dedicated chroot set up by something like UserLAnd) and that is something to be lauded. Android has problems but not being "real Linux" is not among them. permalink fedilink source parent
[–] duncesplayed@lemmy.one 2 points 2 years ago (1 child) It doesn't change the larger point that GNU is way bigger than Linux, though. There are a tonne of things that are larger than Linux, and GNU is one of them. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] xill47@lemm.ee 4 points 2 years ago* (1 child) That is an entirely different argument which I did not contest and the comment I have answered to did not make EDIT: Although, it depends on what we define as "bigger". Binary size is certainly bigger, but user adoption is abysmal comparatively. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] beyond@linkage.ds8.zone 1 point 2 years ago (1 child) but user adoption is abysmal comparatively I guess this is a matter of perspective. What I was saying in my previous comment is that what people commonly refer to as "Linux" (as in "Linux distributions") is not just Linux (which is just a kernel) but also includes a bunch of other stuff, including GNU (that is what GNU/Linux refers to). If you're talking about the actual thing called Linux, you'd be right, because most GNU systems are GNU/Linux systems, whereas arguably most Linux systems are not GNU systems; Alpine and Android are non-GNU Linux systems. However, if like many in the Linux fandom you discount Android, then most Linux systems are GNU systems and vice-versa. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] xill47@lemm.ee 3 points 2 years ago* (1 child) Why would I discount the most popular applications of the kernel? That is almost the whole userbase permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] beyond@linkage.ds8.zone 1 point 2 years ago I wouldn't either, but you see the sentiment especially among the !linuxphones@lemmy.ml crowd. The fact that Android is Linux is significant because it does in fact allow you to run so-called "Linux apps" (either under Termux or under a dedicated chroot set up by something like UserLAnd) and that is something to be lauded. Android has problems but not being "real Linux" is not among them. permalink fedilink source parent
[–] xill47@lemm.ee 4 points 2 years ago* (1 child) That is an entirely different argument which I did not contest and the comment I have answered to did not make EDIT: Although, it depends on what we define as "bigger". Binary size is certainly bigger, but user adoption is abysmal comparatively. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] beyond@linkage.ds8.zone 1 point 2 years ago (1 child) but user adoption is abysmal comparatively I guess this is a matter of perspective. What I was saying in my previous comment is that what people commonly refer to as "Linux" (as in "Linux distributions") is not just Linux (which is just a kernel) but also includes a bunch of other stuff, including GNU (that is what GNU/Linux refers to). If you're talking about the actual thing called Linux, you'd be right, because most GNU systems are GNU/Linux systems, whereas arguably most Linux systems are not GNU systems; Alpine and Android are non-GNU Linux systems. However, if like many in the Linux fandom you discount Android, then most Linux systems are GNU systems and vice-versa. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] xill47@lemm.ee 3 points 2 years ago* (1 child) Why would I discount the most popular applications of the kernel? That is almost the whole userbase permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] beyond@linkage.ds8.zone 1 point 2 years ago I wouldn't either, but you see the sentiment especially among the !linuxphones@lemmy.ml crowd. The fact that Android is Linux is significant because it does in fact allow you to run so-called "Linux apps" (either under Termux or under a dedicated chroot set up by something like UserLAnd) and that is something to be lauded. Android has problems but not being "real Linux" is not among them. permalink fedilink source parent
[–] beyond@linkage.ds8.zone 1 point 2 years ago (1 child) but user adoption is abysmal comparatively I guess this is a matter of perspective. What I was saying in my previous comment is that what people commonly refer to as "Linux" (as in "Linux distributions") is not just Linux (which is just a kernel) but also includes a bunch of other stuff, including GNU (that is what GNU/Linux refers to). If you're talking about the actual thing called Linux, you'd be right, because most GNU systems are GNU/Linux systems, whereas arguably most Linux systems are not GNU systems; Alpine and Android are non-GNU Linux systems. However, if like many in the Linux fandom you discount Android, then most Linux systems are GNU systems and vice-versa. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] xill47@lemm.ee 3 points 2 years ago* (1 child) Why would I discount the most popular applications of the kernel? That is almost the whole userbase permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] beyond@linkage.ds8.zone 1 point 2 years ago I wouldn't either, but you see the sentiment especially among the !linuxphones@lemmy.ml crowd. The fact that Android is Linux is significant because it does in fact allow you to run so-called "Linux apps" (either under Termux or under a dedicated chroot set up by something like UserLAnd) and that is something to be lauded. Android has problems but not being "real Linux" is not among them. permalink fedilink source parent
[–] xill47@lemm.ee 3 points 2 years ago* (1 child) Why would I discount the most popular applications of the kernel? That is almost the whole userbase permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] beyond@linkage.ds8.zone 1 point 2 years ago I wouldn't either, but you see the sentiment especially among the !linuxphones@lemmy.ml crowd. The fact that Android is Linux is significant because it does in fact allow you to run so-called "Linux apps" (either under Termux or under a dedicated chroot set up by something like UserLAnd) and that is something to be lauded. Android has problems but not being "real Linux" is not among them. permalink fedilink source parent
[–] beyond@linkage.ds8.zone 1 point 2 years ago I wouldn't either, but you see the sentiment especially among the !linuxphones@lemmy.ml crowd. The fact that Android is Linux is significant because it does in fact allow you to run so-called "Linux apps" (either under Termux or under a dedicated chroot set up by something like UserLAnd) and that is something to be lauded. Android has problems but not being "real Linux" is not among them. permalink fedilink source parent
[–] RickyRigatoni@lemmy.ml 5 points 2 years ago Allow me to interject for a moment... permalink fedilink source parent
[–] jsnc@lemmy.blahaj.zone 2 points 2 years ago I mean the GPL allowed linux to become a commercial entity. And the whole "professional" outlook is because theres a ton of companies who contribute either funds or development to the project. permalink fedilink source parent
