▲ 187 ▼ Danish government will introduce new law to ban burning the Quran (www.euronews.com) submitted 2 years ago by CAVOK@lemmy.world to c/europe@feddit.de 187 comments fedilink hide all child comments
[–] CookieJarObserver@sh.itjust.works 23 points 2 years ago (2 children) Fucking Assholes, Apologists and Democracy Enemies. Fuck that and them. permalink fedilink source hideshow 4 child comments replies: [–] sugarcake@lemm.ee 6 points 2 years ago* (4 children) it has to be passed in a democratically elected parlament. It may not get passed. it is an extension of an existing law that forbid burning of flags (except the Danish flag Dannebrog) book burnings are for morons fuck you permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 8 child comments replies: [–] Blaze@discuss.tchncs.de 12 points 2 years ago (1 child) (except the Danish flag Dannebrog) So burning the national flag is allowed? permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] sugarcake@lemm.ee 20 points 2 years ago (1 child) Yes, I am proud to say that it is. Burning the danish flag is barely a provocation. The law is intended to stop individuals from provoking or threatening foreign nations, who may feel differently. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] Blaze@discuss.tchncs.de 3 points 2 years ago (1 child) Interesting, thanks for sharing! permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] tal@kbin.social 9 points 2 years ago* (1 child) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flag_desecration It looks like most countries in mainland Europe either restrict flag desecration in general or desecration of their national flag. Of the mainland Europe countries for which data exists, Norway, Sweden, Belgium, and Romania permit it, and Denmark prohibits desecration of international flags but permits desecration of the national flag. It looks like the British tradition is to permit it -- the UK, Ireland, Australia, the US, and Canada permit it (though New Zealand does not). It looks like most countries around the world prohibit desecration of their own flag but permit desecration of those of others. The only other countries that take the Danish approach (permit desecration of own but not of others) are Uruguay and Japan. It looks like Europe is actually one of the most-restrictive places in the world in terms of flag desecration. Few countries around the world restrict both desecration of one's own flag and the flag of other countries; almost all are in Europe, with only Israel and South Korea doing the same outside of Europe. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [+] lud@lemm.ee 1 point 2 years ago* (last edited 1 year ago) [deleted] permalink fedilink source parent [–] captainlezbian@lemmy.world 3 points 2 years ago (1 child) There’s a difference between burning books because you want to eliminate what they contain, and burning the holy text of the religion you suffered under. I think it’s bad for people who weren’t raised under oppression justified by Islam to burn the Quran, but the person who started all this was an immigrant from Iraq. To some people the Quran is a symbol of peace love and their deeply held beliefs. I’ve known wonderful and liberated women who wore hijab. But to others it’s a symbol of brutal oppression, like the Iranian atheist lesbian I once met. The fact is that this situation is far more morally complicated than many equivalents would be. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] tal@kbin.social 9 points 2 years ago (2 children) I don't think that the interesting question is really whether Islam is a good idea or a bad idea. I think that the interesting question is whether a form of condemnation of anything -- Islam, another religion, or anything else -- should be prohibited because some people don't like it being condemned. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 4 child comments replies: [–] captainlezbian@lemmy.world -1 points 2 years ago Replace Islam with Judaism and it becomes less clear. Hatred towards a religious minority can get really fucking bad and should be stamped out. But also hatred towards your own oppressors is always justified. Burning a religious text as a public demonstration isn’t a mild condemnation. It doesn’t fall within the realm of civil discourse. So yeah I think it should be allowed unless Dutch people start actively targeting Muslims. At which point the right to such demonstrations may need reconsideration. permalink fedilink source parent [–] tryptaminev@feddit.de -2 points 2 years ago (1 child) You dont need to burn a Quran to condem Islam.Also it is not a form of constructive criticism. What would you say if people flock to burn Torahs instead? Would you also tell the jewish organizations that would protest it to be less sensitive? permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] tal@kbin.social 5 points 2 years ago You dont need to burn a Quran to condem Islam No, but you certainly can choose that as your form of expression. What would you say if people flock to burn Torahs instead? That's fine too. permalink fedilink source parent [+] Nacktmull@lemmy.world 1 point 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago) [removed by mod] permalink fedilink source parent [+] CookieJarObserver@sh.itjust.works -8 points 2 years ago (1 child) fuck you fuck you fuck you fuck you burning the fucking Quoran is the right way to dispose of it according to itself a democratically elected government can do undemocratic things (and they often do) the existing law is idiotic permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] sugarcake@lemm.ee 6 points 2 years ago* (1 child) burning the fucking Quoran is the right way to dispose of it according to itself Please link to the verse of the Quran you refer to. I don't believe you. Why is the existing law idiotic? What problems do you have with it? permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] Ramvorg@lemmy.one 10 points 2 years ago* (1 child) https://www.learnreligions.com/disposal-of-quran-2004546 Not a link to a Quran quote, but it mentions the 3 main ways Islamic teachings state to dispose of old/broken Qurans. 1.burying 2.placing in flowing water 3.burning Also a fun fact, these only pertain to The Quran in Arabic. Any other language is not considered to be literally Allah’s words and does not have to be discarded in those ways. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] tryptaminev@feddit.de 2 points 2 years ago old/broken that is a very important differentiator here. permalink fedilink source parent [–] Murvel@lemm.ee 0 points 2 years ago Well said and agreed permalink fedilink source parent
[–] sugarcake@lemm.ee 6 points 2 years ago* (4 children) it has to be passed in a democratically elected parlament. It may not get passed. it is an extension of an existing law that forbid burning of flags (except the Danish flag Dannebrog) book burnings are for morons fuck you permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 8 child comments replies: [–] Blaze@discuss.tchncs.de 12 points 2 years ago (1 child) (except the Danish flag Dannebrog) So burning the national flag is allowed? permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] sugarcake@lemm.ee 20 points 2 years ago (1 child) Yes, I am proud to say that it is. Burning the danish flag is barely a provocation. The law is intended to stop individuals from provoking or threatening foreign nations, who may feel differently. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] Blaze@discuss.tchncs.de 3 points 2 years ago (1 child) Interesting, thanks for sharing! permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] tal@kbin.social 9 points 2 years ago* (1 child) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flag_desecration It looks like most countries in mainland Europe either restrict flag desecration in general or desecration of their national flag. Of the mainland Europe countries for which data exists, Norway, Sweden, Belgium, and Romania permit it, and Denmark prohibits desecration of international flags but permits desecration of the national flag. It looks like the British tradition is to permit it -- the UK, Ireland, Australia, the US, and Canada permit it (though New Zealand does not). It looks like most countries around the world prohibit desecration of their own flag but permit desecration of those of others. The only other countries that take the Danish approach (permit desecration of own but not of others) are Uruguay and Japan. It looks like Europe is actually one of the most-restrictive places in the world in terms of flag desecration. Few countries around the world restrict both desecration of one's own flag and the flag of other countries; almost all are in Europe, with only Israel and South Korea doing the same outside of Europe. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [+] lud@lemm.ee 1 point 2 years ago* (last edited 1 year ago) [deleted] permalink fedilink source parent [–] captainlezbian@lemmy.world 3 points 2 years ago (1 child) There’s a difference between burning books because you want to eliminate what they contain, and burning the holy text of the religion you suffered under. I think it’s bad for people who weren’t raised under oppression justified by Islam to burn the Quran, but the person who started all this was an immigrant from Iraq. To some people the Quran is a symbol of peace love and their deeply held beliefs. I’ve known wonderful and liberated women who wore hijab. But to others it’s a symbol of brutal oppression, like the Iranian atheist lesbian I once met. The fact is that this situation is far more morally complicated than many equivalents would be. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] tal@kbin.social 9 points 2 years ago (2 children) I don't think that the interesting question is really whether Islam is a good idea or a bad idea. I think that the interesting question is whether a form of condemnation of anything -- Islam, another religion, or anything else -- should be prohibited because some people don't like it being condemned. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 4 child comments replies: [–] captainlezbian@lemmy.world -1 points 2 years ago Replace Islam with Judaism and it becomes less clear. Hatred towards a religious minority can get really fucking bad and should be stamped out. But also hatred towards your own oppressors is always justified. Burning a religious text as a public demonstration isn’t a mild condemnation. It doesn’t fall within the realm of civil discourse. So yeah I think it should be allowed unless Dutch people start actively targeting Muslims. At which point the right to such demonstrations may need reconsideration. permalink fedilink source parent [–] tryptaminev@feddit.de -2 points 2 years ago (1 child) You dont need to burn a Quran to condem Islam.Also it is not a form of constructive criticism. What would you say if people flock to burn Torahs instead? Would you also tell the jewish organizations that would protest it to be less sensitive? permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] tal@kbin.social 5 points 2 years ago You dont need to burn a Quran to condem Islam No, but you certainly can choose that as your form of expression. What would you say if people flock to burn Torahs instead? That's fine too. permalink fedilink source parent [+] Nacktmull@lemmy.world 1 point 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago) [removed by mod] permalink fedilink source parent [+] CookieJarObserver@sh.itjust.works -8 points 2 years ago (1 child) fuck you fuck you fuck you fuck you burning the fucking Quoran is the right way to dispose of it according to itself a democratically elected government can do undemocratic things (and they often do) the existing law is idiotic permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] sugarcake@lemm.ee 6 points 2 years ago* (1 child) burning the fucking Quoran is the right way to dispose of it according to itself Please link to the verse of the Quran you refer to. I don't believe you. Why is the existing law idiotic? What problems do you have with it? permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] Ramvorg@lemmy.one 10 points 2 years ago* (1 child) https://www.learnreligions.com/disposal-of-quran-2004546 Not a link to a Quran quote, but it mentions the 3 main ways Islamic teachings state to dispose of old/broken Qurans. 1.burying 2.placing in flowing water 3.burning Also a fun fact, these only pertain to The Quran in Arabic. Any other language is not considered to be literally Allah’s words and does not have to be discarded in those ways. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] tryptaminev@feddit.de 2 points 2 years ago old/broken that is a very important differentiator here. permalink fedilink source parent
[–] Blaze@discuss.tchncs.de 12 points 2 years ago (1 child) (except the Danish flag Dannebrog) So burning the national flag is allowed? permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] sugarcake@lemm.ee 20 points 2 years ago (1 child) Yes, I am proud to say that it is. Burning the danish flag is barely a provocation. The law is intended to stop individuals from provoking or threatening foreign nations, who may feel differently. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] Blaze@discuss.tchncs.de 3 points 2 years ago (1 child) Interesting, thanks for sharing! permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] tal@kbin.social 9 points 2 years ago* (1 child) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flag_desecration It looks like most countries in mainland Europe either restrict flag desecration in general or desecration of their national flag. Of the mainland Europe countries for which data exists, Norway, Sweden, Belgium, and Romania permit it, and Denmark prohibits desecration of international flags but permits desecration of the national flag. It looks like the British tradition is to permit it -- the UK, Ireland, Australia, the US, and Canada permit it (though New Zealand does not). It looks like most countries around the world prohibit desecration of their own flag but permit desecration of those of others. The only other countries that take the Danish approach (permit desecration of own but not of others) are Uruguay and Japan. It looks like Europe is actually one of the most-restrictive places in the world in terms of flag desecration. Few countries around the world restrict both desecration of one's own flag and the flag of other countries; almost all are in Europe, with only Israel and South Korea doing the same outside of Europe. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [+] lud@lemm.ee 1 point 2 years ago* (last edited 1 year ago) [deleted] permalink fedilink source parent
[–] sugarcake@lemm.ee 20 points 2 years ago (1 child) Yes, I am proud to say that it is. Burning the danish flag is barely a provocation. The law is intended to stop individuals from provoking or threatening foreign nations, who may feel differently. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] Blaze@discuss.tchncs.de 3 points 2 years ago (1 child) Interesting, thanks for sharing! permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] tal@kbin.social 9 points 2 years ago* (1 child) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flag_desecration It looks like most countries in mainland Europe either restrict flag desecration in general or desecration of their national flag. Of the mainland Europe countries for which data exists, Norway, Sweden, Belgium, and Romania permit it, and Denmark prohibits desecration of international flags but permits desecration of the national flag. It looks like the British tradition is to permit it -- the UK, Ireland, Australia, the US, and Canada permit it (though New Zealand does not). It looks like most countries around the world prohibit desecration of their own flag but permit desecration of those of others. The only other countries that take the Danish approach (permit desecration of own but not of others) are Uruguay and Japan. It looks like Europe is actually one of the most-restrictive places in the world in terms of flag desecration. Few countries around the world restrict both desecration of one's own flag and the flag of other countries; almost all are in Europe, with only Israel and South Korea doing the same outside of Europe. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [+] lud@lemm.ee 1 point 2 years ago* (last edited 1 year ago) [deleted] permalink fedilink source parent
[–] Blaze@discuss.tchncs.de 3 points 2 years ago (1 child) Interesting, thanks for sharing! permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] tal@kbin.social 9 points 2 years ago* (1 child) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flag_desecration It looks like most countries in mainland Europe either restrict flag desecration in general or desecration of their national flag. Of the mainland Europe countries for which data exists, Norway, Sweden, Belgium, and Romania permit it, and Denmark prohibits desecration of international flags but permits desecration of the national flag. It looks like the British tradition is to permit it -- the UK, Ireland, Australia, the US, and Canada permit it (though New Zealand does not). It looks like most countries around the world prohibit desecration of their own flag but permit desecration of those of others. The only other countries that take the Danish approach (permit desecration of own but not of others) are Uruguay and Japan. It looks like Europe is actually one of the most-restrictive places in the world in terms of flag desecration. Few countries around the world restrict both desecration of one's own flag and the flag of other countries; almost all are in Europe, with only Israel and South Korea doing the same outside of Europe. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [+] lud@lemm.ee 1 point 2 years ago* (last edited 1 year ago) [deleted] permalink fedilink source parent
[–] tal@kbin.social 9 points 2 years ago* (1 child) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flag_desecration It looks like most countries in mainland Europe either restrict flag desecration in general or desecration of their national flag. Of the mainland Europe countries for which data exists, Norway, Sweden, Belgium, and Romania permit it, and Denmark prohibits desecration of international flags but permits desecration of the national flag. It looks like the British tradition is to permit it -- the UK, Ireland, Australia, the US, and Canada permit it (though New Zealand does not). It looks like most countries around the world prohibit desecration of their own flag but permit desecration of those of others. The only other countries that take the Danish approach (permit desecration of own but not of others) are Uruguay and Japan. It looks like Europe is actually one of the most-restrictive places in the world in terms of flag desecration. Few countries around the world restrict both desecration of one's own flag and the flag of other countries; almost all are in Europe, with only Israel and South Korea doing the same outside of Europe. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [+] lud@lemm.ee 1 point 2 years ago* (last edited 1 year ago) [deleted] permalink fedilink source parent
[+] lud@lemm.ee 1 point 2 years ago* (last edited 1 year ago) [deleted] permalink fedilink source parent
[–] captainlezbian@lemmy.world 3 points 2 years ago (1 child) There’s a difference between burning books because you want to eliminate what they contain, and burning the holy text of the religion you suffered under. I think it’s bad for people who weren’t raised under oppression justified by Islam to burn the Quran, but the person who started all this was an immigrant from Iraq. To some people the Quran is a symbol of peace love and their deeply held beliefs. I’ve known wonderful and liberated women who wore hijab. But to others it’s a symbol of brutal oppression, like the Iranian atheist lesbian I once met. The fact is that this situation is far more morally complicated than many equivalents would be. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] tal@kbin.social 9 points 2 years ago (2 children) I don't think that the interesting question is really whether Islam is a good idea or a bad idea. I think that the interesting question is whether a form of condemnation of anything -- Islam, another religion, or anything else -- should be prohibited because some people don't like it being condemned. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 4 child comments replies: [–] captainlezbian@lemmy.world -1 points 2 years ago Replace Islam with Judaism and it becomes less clear. Hatred towards a religious minority can get really fucking bad and should be stamped out. But also hatred towards your own oppressors is always justified. Burning a religious text as a public demonstration isn’t a mild condemnation. It doesn’t fall within the realm of civil discourse. So yeah I think it should be allowed unless Dutch people start actively targeting Muslims. At which point the right to such demonstrations may need reconsideration. permalink fedilink source parent [–] tryptaminev@feddit.de -2 points 2 years ago (1 child) You dont need to burn a Quran to condem Islam.Also it is not a form of constructive criticism. What would you say if people flock to burn Torahs instead? Would you also tell the jewish organizations that would protest it to be less sensitive? permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] tal@kbin.social 5 points 2 years ago You dont need to burn a Quran to condem Islam No, but you certainly can choose that as your form of expression. What would you say if people flock to burn Torahs instead? That's fine too. permalink fedilink source parent
[–] tal@kbin.social 9 points 2 years ago (2 children) I don't think that the interesting question is really whether Islam is a good idea or a bad idea. I think that the interesting question is whether a form of condemnation of anything -- Islam, another religion, or anything else -- should be prohibited because some people don't like it being condemned. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 4 child comments replies: [–] captainlezbian@lemmy.world -1 points 2 years ago Replace Islam with Judaism and it becomes less clear. Hatred towards a religious minority can get really fucking bad and should be stamped out. But also hatred towards your own oppressors is always justified. Burning a religious text as a public demonstration isn’t a mild condemnation. It doesn’t fall within the realm of civil discourse. So yeah I think it should be allowed unless Dutch people start actively targeting Muslims. At which point the right to such demonstrations may need reconsideration. permalink fedilink source parent [–] tryptaminev@feddit.de -2 points 2 years ago (1 child) You dont need to burn a Quran to condem Islam.Also it is not a form of constructive criticism. What would you say if people flock to burn Torahs instead? Would you also tell the jewish organizations that would protest it to be less sensitive? permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] tal@kbin.social 5 points 2 years ago You dont need to burn a Quran to condem Islam No, but you certainly can choose that as your form of expression. What would you say if people flock to burn Torahs instead? That's fine too. permalink fedilink source parent
[–] captainlezbian@lemmy.world -1 points 2 years ago Replace Islam with Judaism and it becomes less clear. Hatred towards a religious minority can get really fucking bad and should be stamped out. But also hatred towards your own oppressors is always justified. Burning a religious text as a public demonstration isn’t a mild condemnation. It doesn’t fall within the realm of civil discourse. So yeah I think it should be allowed unless Dutch people start actively targeting Muslims. At which point the right to such demonstrations may need reconsideration. permalink fedilink source parent
[–] tryptaminev@feddit.de -2 points 2 years ago (1 child) You dont need to burn a Quran to condem Islam.Also it is not a form of constructive criticism. What would you say if people flock to burn Torahs instead? Would you also tell the jewish organizations that would protest it to be less sensitive? permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] tal@kbin.social 5 points 2 years ago You dont need to burn a Quran to condem Islam No, but you certainly can choose that as your form of expression. What would you say if people flock to burn Torahs instead? That's fine too. permalink fedilink source parent
[–] tal@kbin.social 5 points 2 years ago You dont need to burn a Quran to condem Islam No, but you certainly can choose that as your form of expression. What would you say if people flock to burn Torahs instead? That's fine too. permalink fedilink source parent
[+] Nacktmull@lemmy.world 1 point 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago) [removed by mod] permalink fedilink source parent
[+] CookieJarObserver@sh.itjust.works -8 points 2 years ago (1 child) fuck you fuck you fuck you fuck you burning the fucking Quoran is the right way to dispose of it according to itself a democratically elected government can do undemocratic things (and they often do) the existing law is idiotic permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] sugarcake@lemm.ee 6 points 2 years ago* (1 child) burning the fucking Quoran is the right way to dispose of it according to itself Please link to the verse of the Quran you refer to. I don't believe you. Why is the existing law idiotic? What problems do you have with it? permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] Ramvorg@lemmy.one 10 points 2 years ago* (1 child) https://www.learnreligions.com/disposal-of-quran-2004546 Not a link to a Quran quote, but it mentions the 3 main ways Islamic teachings state to dispose of old/broken Qurans. 1.burying 2.placing in flowing water 3.burning Also a fun fact, these only pertain to The Quran in Arabic. Any other language is not considered to be literally Allah’s words and does not have to be discarded in those ways. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] tryptaminev@feddit.de 2 points 2 years ago old/broken that is a very important differentiator here. permalink fedilink source parent
[–] sugarcake@lemm.ee 6 points 2 years ago* (1 child) burning the fucking Quoran is the right way to dispose of it according to itself Please link to the verse of the Quran you refer to. I don't believe you. Why is the existing law idiotic? What problems do you have with it? permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] Ramvorg@lemmy.one 10 points 2 years ago* (1 child) https://www.learnreligions.com/disposal-of-quran-2004546 Not a link to a Quran quote, but it mentions the 3 main ways Islamic teachings state to dispose of old/broken Qurans. 1.burying 2.placing in flowing water 3.burning Also a fun fact, these only pertain to The Quran in Arabic. Any other language is not considered to be literally Allah’s words and does not have to be discarded in those ways. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] tryptaminev@feddit.de 2 points 2 years ago old/broken that is a very important differentiator here. permalink fedilink source parent
[–] Ramvorg@lemmy.one 10 points 2 years ago* (1 child) https://www.learnreligions.com/disposal-of-quran-2004546 Not a link to a Quran quote, but it mentions the 3 main ways Islamic teachings state to dispose of old/broken Qurans. 1.burying 2.placing in flowing water 3.burning Also a fun fact, these only pertain to The Quran in Arabic. Any other language is not considered to be literally Allah’s words and does not have to be discarded in those ways. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] tryptaminev@feddit.de 2 points 2 years ago old/broken that is a very important differentiator here. permalink fedilink source parent
[–] tryptaminev@feddit.de 2 points 2 years ago old/broken that is a very important differentiator here. permalink fedilink source parent