▲ 733 ▼ I'm with McCoy here (lemmy.world) submitted 2 years ago* by The_Picard_Maneuver@lemmy.world [M] to c/tenforward@lemmy.world 258 comments fedilink hide all child comments Sorry about that ridiculous watermark.
[–] HawlSera@lemm.ee 1 point 2 years ago (1 child) We don't even know that the brain makes the mind, it could easily be the other way around. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] starman2112@sh.itjust.works 2 points 2 years ago* (1 child) No, we do know that the brain makes the mind. Physical changes to the brain can make predictable changes to the mind, but your thoughts don't change the structure of your brain. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] HawlSera@lemm.ee 1 point 2 years ago* (1 child) While your first point is true, your second is not. It's actually been found that if you change the way you think about stuff, your brain actually changes. It's this little thing called neuroplasticity and it's fucking wild. - https://www.healthline.com/health/rewiring-your-brain We've also observed intelligence and seeming awareness from things like fungus, which don't even have brains. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] starman2112@sh.itjust.works 2 points 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago) (1 child) Yeah, I'm aware of that. Vasanas are a related topic. But these are results of physical interactions between neurons in your brain. There's nothing nonphysical about your mind that creates or alters matter supernaturally. My point stands, the mind is, as far as a naturalistic philosophy is concerned, an emergent property of complex interactions in the brain. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] HawlSera@lemm.ee 1 point 2 years ago (1 child) If my thought moved the neurons as opposed to my neurons making the thought as demonstrated by neuroplasticity, than the brain cannot be the origin. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] starman2112@sh.itjust.works 2 points 2 years ago* (1 child) The neurons are what make the thoughts. I acknowledge the existence of neuroplasticity and vasanas, but the mind is an emergent property of the physical neurons. If your thoughts are having an effect on the brain, that is because there are physical processes happening in the brain that are affecting the brain. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] HawlSera@lemm.ee 1 point 2 years ago* Except the cause of those physical processes seems to be something that by itself is not a physical process. If I can just decide to rewire my brain and that works, what prompted the rewiring? What told these neurons to say "We should do something different?" Because that's essentially what's happening during neuroplasticity, something invisible and intangible (the mind) is changing the brain's building blocks. It seems to be quite the plothole in the Physicalist Paradigm and the only objection appears to be "Naw uh" See Also: https://ykulbashian.medium.com/emergence-isnt-an-explanation-it-s-a-prayer-ef239d3687bf If you disagree, then we're just going to have to agree to disagree. permalink fedilink source parent
[–] starman2112@sh.itjust.works 2 points 2 years ago* (1 child) No, we do know that the brain makes the mind. Physical changes to the brain can make predictable changes to the mind, but your thoughts don't change the structure of your brain. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] HawlSera@lemm.ee 1 point 2 years ago* (1 child) While your first point is true, your second is not. It's actually been found that if you change the way you think about stuff, your brain actually changes. It's this little thing called neuroplasticity and it's fucking wild. - https://www.healthline.com/health/rewiring-your-brain We've also observed intelligence and seeming awareness from things like fungus, which don't even have brains. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] starman2112@sh.itjust.works 2 points 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago) (1 child) Yeah, I'm aware of that. Vasanas are a related topic. But these are results of physical interactions between neurons in your brain. There's nothing nonphysical about your mind that creates or alters matter supernaturally. My point stands, the mind is, as far as a naturalistic philosophy is concerned, an emergent property of complex interactions in the brain. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] HawlSera@lemm.ee 1 point 2 years ago (1 child) If my thought moved the neurons as opposed to my neurons making the thought as demonstrated by neuroplasticity, than the brain cannot be the origin. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] starman2112@sh.itjust.works 2 points 2 years ago* (1 child) The neurons are what make the thoughts. I acknowledge the existence of neuroplasticity and vasanas, but the mind is an emergent property of the physical neurons. If your thoughts are having an effect on the brain, that is because there are physical processes happening in the brain that are affecting the brain. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] HawlSera@lemm.ee 1 point 2 years ago* Except the cause of those physical processes seems to be something that by itself is not a physical process. If I can just decide to rewire my brain and that works, what prompted the rewiring? What told these neurons to say "We should do something different?" Because that's essentially what's happening during neuroplasticity, something invisible and intangible (the mind) is changing the brain's building blocks. It seems to be quite the plothole in the Physicalist Paradigm and the only objection appears to be "Naw uh" See Also: https://ykulbashian.medium.com/emergence-isnt-an-explanation-it-s-a-prayer-ef239d3687bf If you disagree, then we're just going to have to agree to disagree. permalink fedilink source parent
[–] HawlSera@lemm.ee 1 point 2 years ago* (1 child) While your first point is true, your second is not. It's actually been found that if you change the way you think about stuff, your brain actually changes. It's this little thing called neuroplasticity and it's fucking wild. - https://www.healthline.com/health/rewiring-your-brain We've also observed intelligence and seeming awareness from things like fungus, which don't even have brains. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] starman2112@sh.itjust.works 2 points 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago) (1 child) Yeah, I'm aware of that. Vasanas are a related topic. But these are results of physical interactions between neurons in your brain. There's nothing nonphysical about your mind that creates or alters matter supernaturally. My point stands, the mind is, as far as a naturalistic philosophy is concerned, an emergent property of complex interactions in the brain. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] HawlSera@lemm.ee 1 point 2 years ago (1 child) If my thought moved the neurons as opposed to my neurons making the thought as demonstrated by neuroplasticity, than the brain cannot be the origin. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] starman2112@sh.itjust.works 2 points 2 years ago* (1 child) The neurons are what make the thoughts. I acknowledge the existence of neuroplasticity and vasanas, but the mind is an emergent property of the physical neurons. If your thoughts are having an effect on the brain, that is because there are physical processes happening in the brain that are affecting the brain. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] HawlSera@lemm.ee 1 point 2 years ago* Except the cause of those physical processes seems to be something that by itself is not a physical process. If I can just decide to rewire my brain and that works, what prompted the rewiring? What told these neurons to say "We should do something different?" Because that's essentially what's happening during neuroplasticity, something invisible and intangible (the mind) is changing the brain's building blocks. It seems to be quite the plothole in the Physicalist Paradigm and the only objection appears to be "Naw uh" See Also: https://ykulbashian.medium.com/emergence-isnt-an-explanation-it-s-a-prayer-ef239d3687bf If you disagree, then we're just going to have to agree to disagree. permalink fedilink source parent
[–] starman2112@sh.itjust.works 2 points 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago) (1 child) Yeah, I'm aware of that. Vasanas are a related topic. But these are results of physical interactions between neurons in your brain. There's nothing nonphysical about your mind that creates or alters matter supernaturally. My point stands, the mind is, as far as a naturalistic philosophy is concerned, an emergent property of complex interactions in the brain. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] HawlSera@lemm.ee 1 point 2 years ago (1 child) If my thought moved the neurons as opposed to my neurons making the thought as demonstrated by neuroplasticity, than the brain cannot be the origin. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] starman2112@sh.itjust.works 2 points 2 years ago* (1 child) The neurons are what make the thoughts. I acknowledge the existence of neuroplasticity and vasanas, but the mind is an emergent property of the physical neurons. If your thoughts are having an effect on the brain, that is because there are physical processes happening in the brain that are affecting the brain. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] HawlSera@lemm.ee 1 point 2 years ago* Except the cause of those physical processes seems to be something that by itself is not a physical process. If I can just decide to rewire my brain and that works, what prompted the rewiring? What told these neurons to say "We should do something different?" Because that's essentially what's happening during neuroplasticity, something invisible and intangible (the mind) is changing the brain's building blocks. It seems to be quite the plothole in the Physicalist Paradigm and the only objection appears to be "Naw uh" See Also: https://ykulbashian.medium.com/emergence-isnt-an-explanation-it-s-a-prayer-ef239d3687bf If you disagree, then we're just going to have to agree to disagree. permalink fedilink source parent
[–] HawlSera@lemm.ee 1 point 2 years ago (1 child) If my thought moved the neurons as opposed to my neurons making the thought as demonstrated by neuroplasticity, than the brain cannot be the origin. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] starman2112@sh.itjust.works 2 points 2 years ago* (1 child) The neurons are what make the thoughts. I acknowledge the existence of neuroplasticity and vasanas, but the mind is an emergent property of the physical neurons. If your thoughts are having an effect on the brain, that is because there are physical processes happening in the brain that are affecting the brain. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] HawlSera@lemm.ee 1 point 2 years ago* Except the cause of those physical processes seems to be something that by itself is not a physical process. If I can just decide to rewire my brain and that works, what prompted the rewiring? What told these neurons to say "We should do something different?" Because that's essentially what's happening during neuroplasticity, something invisible and intangible (the mind) is changing the brain's building blocks. It seems to be quite the plothole in the Physicalist Paradigm and the only objection appears to be "Naw uh" See Also: https://ykulbashian.medium.com/emergence-isnt-an-explanation-it-s-a-prayer-ef239d3687bf If you disagree, then we're just going to have to agree to disagree. permalink fedilink source parent
[–] starman2112@sh.itjust.works 2 points 2 years ago* (1 child) The neurons are what make the thoughts. I acknowledge the existence of neuroplasticity and vasanas, but the mind is an emergent property of the physical neurons. If your thoughts are having an effect on the brain, that is because there are physical processes happening in the brain that are affecting the brain. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] HawlSera@lemm.ee 1 point 2 years ago* Except the cause of those physical processes seems to be something that by itself is not a physical process. If I can just decide to rewire my brain and that works, what prompted the rewiring? What told these neurons to say "We should do something different?" Because that's essentially what's happening during neuroplasticity, something invisible and intangible (the mind) is changing the brain's building blocks. It seems to be quite the plothole in the Physicalist Paradigm and the only objection appears to be "Naw uh" See Also: https://ykulbashian.medium.com/emergence-isnt-an-explanation-it-s-a-prayer-ef239d3687bf If you disagree, then we're just going to have to agree to disagree. permalink fedilink source parent
[–] HawlSera@lemm.ee 1 point 2 years ago* Except the cause of those physical processes seems to be something that by itself is not a physical process. If I can just decide to rewire my brain and that works, what prompted the rewiring? What told these neurons to say "We should do something different?" Because that's essentially what's happening during neuroplasticity, something invisible and intangible (the mind) is changing the brain's building blocks. It seems to be quite the plothole in the Physicalist Paradigm and the only objection appears to be "Naw uh" See Also: https://ykulbashian.medium.com/emergence-isnt-an-explanation-it-s-a-prayer-ef239d3687bf If you disagree, then we're just going to have to agree to disagree. permalink fedilink source parent
