▲ 331 ▼ Boy Scouts of America rebranding to more inclusive Scouting America (www.pbs.org) submitted 2 years ago by Wilshire@lemmy.world to c/news@lemmy.world 81 comments fedilink hide all child comments
[–] jordanlund@lemmy.world 81 points 2 years ago* (5 children) Gay members? ✅ Gay leaders? ✅ Girls? ✅ Atheists? Um... er... well... https://blog.scoutingmagazine.org/2014/10/03/belief-in-god-scouting/ As an atheist scout, I got around that by just lying to them. LOL. I guess I wasn't a good scout. permalink fedilink source hideshow 10 child comments replies: [–] halcyoncmdr@lemmy.world 33 points 2 years ago (2 children) Your article is from 2014. 10 years ago all of your other checks were NO as well. I can't find anything recently about atheists with a quick search, just old stuff like that. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 4 child comments replies: [–] jordanlund@lemmy.world 41 points 2 years ago (1 child) It's still a core part of their membership: https://www.scouting.org/ Scout Oath “On my honor I will do my best to do my duty to God and my country and to obey the Scout Law; to help other people at all times; to keep myself physically strong, mentally awake, and morally straight.” More: https://blog.scoutingmagazine.org/2018/05/31/bsa-reaffirms-duty-to-god-aspect-of-all-programs-through-resolution-adopted-at-2018-national-annual-meeting/ https://dutytogodbsa.org/portfolio/what-does-duty-to-god-mean/ permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] nxdefiant@startrek.website -1 points 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago) (3 children) it is, BUT, if you read between the lines of the requirements, there's plenty of room for pragmatic atheists (in pragmatic packs/troops). It's not perfect, but overall Scouting has absolutely embraced inclusiveness. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 6 child comments replies: [–] iheartneopets@lemm.ee 26 points 2 years ago (3 children) Not when you're interviewing for your Eagle they haven't. Describing how you serve your higher power is still a question at the final interview before receiving it. Either you lie as an atheist, or you tell the truth and don't get your Eagle. So either violate what it's supposed to mean to be a scout (integrity and honesty) or you throw away what you've worked so hard for for years. And that's ignoring the fact that many troops are hosted via churches, especially in southern areas. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 6 child comments replies: [–] jh34@lemmy.world 3 points 2 years ago Maybe a regional/troop thing or my memory is failing me? My interview in 2017 (Iowa) didn't have a religious question in it iirc; there was a question on how I'd be giving back to my community. Don't think my interviewers were extremely religious though. permalink fedilink source parent [–] nxdefiant@startrek.website 3 points 2 years ago* I can't argue with that, but I'd have no qualms about "lying" about a ''make believe'' thing anyway. Tons of kids get their religious award and then never step foot in a church again. It would be very nice if kids could be honest about it though, even just picking a religion to earn the reward for as an academic exercise should be allowed I think learning about how much of a part religion can play in people's lives, how it affects their judgement, is a good thing for a person to learn about, and perhaps that's the final test. Respecting the requirement for the sake of the ceremony maybe. Even a (respectful) atheist would take their hat off in a place of worship if asked to. permalink fedilink source parent [–] olympicyes@lemmy.world 1 point 2 years ago They would only ask that in a religious troop. There are plenty of troops charted by secular organizations that won’t ask about that. permalink fedilink source parent [–] MerrySkeptic@sh.itjust.works 4 points 2 years ago (1 child) I wish there didn't have to be any reading between the lines. They're sooo close... permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] nxdefiant@startrek.website 1 point 2 years ago Very true. Sadly, probably not something they'll budge on any time soon, but then again it's a volunteer organization, so maybe there's hope. permalink fedilink source parent [–] UnderpantsWeevil@lemmy.world -1 points 2 years ago* if you read between the lines A big part of Scouting, at the organizational level, is fund raising. Without funds, you can't afford the uniforms or the events or any of the things that make Boy Scouts a social group. Historically, the Mormon Church has been a major contributor and facilitator of Boy Scout troops, particularly through the American Midwest and Southwest. Catholics and Methodists are other large scale feeders for the organization. Yes, you can read between the lines. But show up with your "pragmatic atheist" merit badge, and you're not going to be particularly well received by other troops who came up through religious organizations. Jews and Muslims haven't have it particularly easy integrating with the Boy Scouts, either. permalink fedilink source parent [–] Zanothis@lemm.ee 3 points 2 years ago (1 child) If they haven't made a public statement that they've stopped excluding atheists, why should anyone assume they've changed their policies? permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] Honytawk@lemmy.zip 0 points 2 years ago* The rise of secularism permalink fedilink source parent [–] Duamerthrax@lemmy.world 11 points 2 years ago (1 child) Start a 4-H Club. They're run by state universities, so they're subject to all their policies involving inclusivity and each club is centered on a specific topic. Want a camping/outdoor life club? Easy. Doesn't have to be Ag related. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] Eiim@lemmy.blahaj.zone 2 points 2 years ago As a former 4-Her myself, the 4-H extension office in our region is run by a state university, but the clubs themselves are community-organized. Also, many clubs in our area were general, so you could do any topic covered by the extension office and be a part of the club. permalink fedilink source parent [–] PsychedSy@lemmy.dbzer0.com 4 points 2 years ago (1 child) I got my God and Country before I became an atheist. I think my dad still has it lol permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] brbposting@sh.itjust.works 1 point 2 years ago My two favorite things Besides family of course permalink fedilink source parent [–] theherk@lemmy.world 4 points 2 years ago I’m an Eagle and an atheist. I don’t remember being required to confirm a belief. But even though I was part of an organization in a very small very religious town, nobody seemed to care. permalink fedilink source parent [–] bitwaba@lemmy.world 2 points 2 years ago I lied as a scout too. We-Blows? No thanks. You blows. I'm just here for that campfire smell on my school clothes during the weekdays. permalink fedilink source parent
[–] halcyoncmdr@lemmy.world 33 points 2 years ago (2 children) Your article is from 2014. 10 years ago all of your other checks were NO as well. I can't find anything recently about atheists with a quick search, just old stuff like that. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 4 child comments replies: [–] jordanlund@lemmy.world 41 points 2 years ago (1 child) It's still a core part of their membership: https://www.scouting.org/ Scout Oath “On my honor I will do my best to do my duty to God and my country and to obey the Scout Law; to help other people at all times; to keep myself physically strong, mentally awake, and morally straight.” More: https://blog.scoutingmagazine.org/2018/05/31/bsa-reaffirms-duty-to-god-aspect-of-all-programs-through-resolution-adopted-at-2018-national-annual-meeting/ https://dutytogodbsa.org/portfolio/what-does-duty-to-god-mean/ permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] nxdefiant@startrek.website -1 points 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago) (3 children) it is, BUT, if you read between the lines of the requirements, there's plenty of room for pragmatic atheists (in pragmatic packs/troops). It's not perfect, but overall Scouting has absolutely embraced inclusiveness. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 6 child comments replies: [–] iheartneopets@lemm.ee 26 points 2 years ago (3 children) Not when you're interviewing for your Eagle they haven't. Describing how you serve your higher power is still a question at the final interview before receiving it. Either you lie as an atheist, or you tell the truth and don't get your Eagle. So either violate what it's supposed to mean to be a scout (integrity and honesty) or you throw away what you've worked so hard for for years. And that's ignoring the fact that many troops are hosted via churches, especially in southern areas. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 6 child comments replies: [–] jh34@lemmy.world 3 points 2 years ago Maybe a regional/troop thing or my memory is failing me? My interview in 2017 (Iowa) didn't have a religious question in it iirc; there was a question on how I'd be giving back to my community. Don't think my interviewers were extremely religious though. permalink fedilink source parent [–] nxdefiant@startrek.website 3 points 2 years ago* I can't argue with that, but I'd have no qualms about "lying" about a ''make believe'' thing anyway. Tons of kids get their religious award and then never step foot in a church again. It would be very nice if kids could be honest about it though, even just picking a religion to earn the reward for as an academic exercise should be allowed I think learning about how much of a part religion can play in people's lives, how it affects their judgement, is a good thing for a person to learn about, and perhaps that's the final test. Respecting the requirement for the sake of the ceremony maybe. Even a (respectful) atheist would take their hat off in a place of worship if asked to. permalink fedilink source parent [–] olympicyes@lemmy.world 1 point 2 years ago They would only ask that in a religious troop. There are plenty of troops charted by secular organizations that won’t ask about that. permalink fedilink source parent [–] MerrySkeptic@sh.itjust.works 4 points 2 years ago (1 child) I wish there didn't have to be any reading between the lines. They're sooo close... permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] nxdefiant@startrek.website 1 point 2 years ago Very true. Sadly, probably not something they'll budge on any time soon, but then again it's a volunteer organization, so maybe there's hope. permalink fedilink source parent [–] UnderpantsWeevil@lemmy.world -1 points 2 years ago* if you read between the lines A big part of Scouting, at the organizational level, is fund raising. Without funds, you can't afford the uniforms or the events or any of the things that make Boy Scouts a social group. Historically, the Mormon Church has been a major contributor and facilitator of Boy Scout troops, particularly through the American Midwest and Southwest. Catholics and Methodists are other large scale feeders for the organization. Yes, you can read between the lines. But show up with your "pragmatic atheist" merit badge, and you're not going to be particularly well received by other troops who came up through religious organizations. Jews and Muslims haven't have it particularly easy integrating with the Boy Scouts, either. permalink fedilink source parent [–] Zanothis@lemm.ee 3 points 2 years ago (1 child) If they haven't made a public statement that they've stopped excluding atheists, why should anyone assume they've changed their policies? permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] Honytawk@lemmy.zip 0 points 2 years ago* The rise of secularism permalink fedilink source parent
[–] jordanlund@lemmy.world 41 points 2 years ago (1 child) It's still a core part of their membership: https://www.scouting.org/ Scout Oath “On my honor I will do my best to do my duty to God and my country and to obey the Scout Law; to help other people at all times; to keep myself physically strong, mentally awake, and morally straight.” More: https://blog.scoutingmagazine.org/2018/05/31/bsa-reaffirms-duty-to-god-aspect-of-all-programs-through-resolution-adopted-at-2018-national-annual-meeting/ https://dutytogodbsa.org/portfolio/what-does-duty-to-god-mean/ permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] nxdefiant@startrek.website -1 points 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago) (3 children) it is, BUT, if you read between the lines of the requirements, there's plenty of room for pragmatic atheists (in pragmatic packs/troops). It's not perfect, but overall Scouting has absolutely embraced inclusiveness. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 6 child comments replies: [–] iheartneopets@lemm.ee 26 points 2 years ago (3 children) Not when you're interviewing for your Eagle they haven't. Describing how you serve your higher power is still a question at the final interview before receiving it. Either you lie as an atheist, or you tell the truth and don't get your Eagle. So either violate what it's supposed to mean to be a scout (integrity and honesty) or you throw away what you've worked so hard for for years. And that's ignoring the fact that many troops are hosted via churches, especially in southern areas. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 6 child comments replies: [–] jh34@lemmy.world 3 points 2 years ago Maybe a regional/troop thing or my memory is failing me? My interview in 2017 (Iowa) didn't have a religious question in it iirc; there was a question on how I'd be giving back to my community. Don't think my interviewers were extremely religious though. permalink fedilink source parent [–] nxdefiant@startrek.website 3 points 2 years ago* I can't argue with that, but I'd have no qualms about "lying" about a ''make believe'' thing anyway. Tons of kids get their religious award and then never step foot in a church again. It would be very nice if kids could be honest about it though, even just picking a religion to earn the reward for as an academic exercise should be allowed I think learning about how much of a part religion can play in people's lives, how it affects their judgement, is a good thing for a person to learn about, and perhaps that's the final test. Respecting the requirement for the sake of the ceremony maybe. Even a (respectful) atheist would take their hat off in a place of worship if asked to. permalink fedilink source parent [–] olympicyes@lemmy.world 1 point 2 years ago They would only ask that in a religious troop. There are plenty of troops charted by secular organizations that won’t ask about that. permalink fedilink source parent [–] MerrySkeptic@sh.itjust.works 4 points 2 years ago (1 child) I wish there didn't have to be any reading between the lines. They're sooo close... permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] nxdefiant@startrek.website 1 point 2 years ago Very true. Sadly, probably not something they'll budge on any time soon, but then again it's a volunteer organization, so maybe there's hope. permalink fedilink source parent [–] UnderpantsWeevil@lemmy.world -1 points 2 years ago* if you read between the lines A big part of Scouting, at the organizational level, is fund raising. Without funds, you can't afford the uniforms or the events or any of the things that make Boy Scouts a social group. Historically, the Mormon Church has been a major contributor and facilitator of Boy Scout troops, particularly through the American Midwest and Southwest. Catholics and Methodists are other large scale feeders for the organization. Yes, you can read between the lines. But show up with your "pragmatic atheist" merit badge, and you're not going to be particularly well received by other troops who came up through religious organizations. Jews and Muslims haven't have it particularly easy integrating with the Boy Scouts, either. permalink fedilink source parent
[–] nxdefiant@startrek.website -1 points 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago) (3 children) it is, BUT, if you read between the lines of the requirements, there's plenty of room for pragmatic atheists (in pragmatic packs/troops). It's not perfect, but overall Scouting has absolutely embraced inclusiveness. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 6 child comments replies: [–] iheartneopets@lemm.ee 26 points 2 years ago (3 children) Not when you're interviewing for your Eagle they haven't. Describing how you serve your higher power is still a question at the final interview before receiving it. Either you lie as an atheist, or you tell the truth and don't get your Eagle. So either violate what it's supposed to mean to be a scout (integrity and honesty) or you throw away what you've worked so hard for for years. And that's ignoring the fact that many troops are hosted via churches, especially in southern areas. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 6 child comments replies: [–] jh34@lemmy.world 3 points 2 years ago Maybe a regional/troop thing or my memory is failing me? My interview in 2017 (Iowa) didn't have a religious question in it iirc; there was a question on how I'd be giving back to my community. Don't think my interviewers were extremely religious though. permalink fedilink source parent [–] nxdefiant@startrek.website 3 points 2 years ago* I can't argue with that, but I'd have no qualms about "lying" about a ''make believe'' thing anyway. Tons of kids get their religious award and then never step foot in a church again. It would be very nice if kids could be honest about it though, even just picking a religion to earn the reward for as an academic exercise should be allowed I think learning about how much of a part religion can play in people's lives, how it affects their judgement, is a good thing for a person to learn about, and perhaps that's the final test. Respecting the requirement for the sake of the ceremony maybe. Even a (respectful) atheist would take their hat off in a place of worship if asked to. permalink fedilink source parent [–] olympicyes@lemmy.world 1 point 2 years ago They would only ask that in a religious troop. There are plenty of troops charted by secular organizations that won’t ask about that. permalink fedilink source parent [–] MerrySkeptic@sh.itjust.works 4 points 2 years ago (1 child) I wish there didn't have to be any reading between the lines. They're sooo close... permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] nxdefiant@startrek.website 1 point 2 years ago Very true. Sadly, probably not something they'll budge on any time soon, but then again it's a volunteer organization, so maybe there's hope. permalink fedilink source parent [–] UnderpantsWeevil@lemmy.world -1 points 2 years ago* if you read between the lines A big part of Scouting, at the organizational level, is fund raising. Without funds, you can't afford the uniforms or the events or any of the things that make Boy Scouts a social group. Historically, the Mormon Church has been a major contributor and facilitator of Boy Scout troops, particularly through the American Midwest and Southwest. Catholics and Methodists are other large scale feeders for the organization. Yes, you can read between the lines. But show up with your "pragmatic atheist" merit badge, and you're not going to be particularly well received by other troops who came up through religious organizations. Jews and Muslims haven't have it particularly easy integrating with the Boy Scouts, either. permalink fedilink source parent
[–] iheartneopets@lemm.ee 26 points 2 years ago (3 children) Not when you're interviewing for your Eagle they haven't. Describing how you serve your higher power is still a question at the final interview before receiving it. Either you lie as an atheist, or you tell the truth and don't get your Eagle. So either violate what it's supposed to mean to be a scout (integrity and honesty) or you throw away what you've worked so hard for for years. And that's ignoring the fact that many troops are hosted via churches, especially in southern areas. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 6 child comments replies: [–] jh34@lemmy.world 3 points 2 years ago Maybe a regional/troop thing or my memory is failing me? My interview in 2017 (Iowa) didn't have a religious question in it iirc; there was a question on how I'd be giving back to my community. Don't think my interviewers were extremely religious though. permalink fedilink source parent [–] nxdefiant@startrek.website 3 points 2 years ago* I can't argue with that, but I'd have no qualms about "lying" about a ''make believe'' thing anyway. Tons of kids get their religious award and then never step foot in a church again. It would be very nice if kids could be honest about it though, even just picking a religion to earn the reward for as an academic exercise should be allowed I think learning about how much of a part religion can play in people's lives, how it affects their judgement, is a good thing for a person to learn about, and perhaps that's the final test. Respecting the requirement for the sake of the ceremony maybe. Even a (respectful) atheist would take their hat off in a place of worship if asked to. permalink fedilink source parent [–] olympicyes@lemmy.world 1 point 2 years ago They would only ask that in a religious troop. There are plenty of troops charted by secular organizations that won’t ask about that. permalink fedilink source parent
[–] jh34@lemmy.world 3 points 2 years ago Maybe a regional/troop thing or my memory is failing me? My interview in 2017 (Iowa) didn't have a religious question in it iirc; there was a question on how I'd be giving back to my community. Don't think my interviewers were extremely religious though. permalink fedilink source parent
[–] nxdefiant@startrek.website 3 points 2 years ago* I can't argue with that, but I'd have no qualms about "lying" about a ''make believe'' thing anyway. Tons of kids get their religious award and then never step foot in a church again. It would be very nice if kids could be honest about it though, even just picking a religion to earn the reward for as an academic exercise should be allowed I think learning about how much of a part religion can play in people's lives, how it affects their judgement, is a good thing for a person to learn about, and perhaps that's the final test. Respecting the requirement for the sake of the ceremony maybe. Even a (respectful) atheist would take their hat off in a place of worship if asked to. permalink fedilink source parent
[–] olympicyes@lemmy.world 1 point 2 years ago They would only ask that in a religious troop. There are plenty of troops charted by secular organizations that won’t ask about that. permalink fedilink source parent
[–] MerrySkeptic@sh.itjust.works 4 points 2 years ago (1 child) I wish there didn't have to be any reading between the lines. They're sooo close... permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] nxdefiant@startrek.website 1 point 2 years ago Very true. Sadly, probably not something they'll budge on any time soon, but then again it's a volunteer organization, so maybe there's hope. permalink fedilink source parent
[–] nxdefiant@startrek.website 1 point 2 years ago Very true. Sadly, probably not something they'll budge on any time soon, but then again it's a volunteer organization, so maybe there's hope. permalink fedilink source parent
[–] UnderpantsWeevil@lemmy.world -1 points 2 years ago* if you read between the lines A big part of Scouting, at the organizational level, is fund raising. Without funds, you can't afford the uniforms or the events or any of the things that make Boy Scouts a social group. Historically, the Mormon Church has been a major contributor and facilitator of Boy Scout troops, particularly through the American Midwest and Southwest. Catholics and Methodists are other large scale feeders for the organization. Yes, you can read between the lines. But show up with your "pragmatic atheist" merit badge, and you're not going to be particularly well received by other troops who came up through religious organizations. Jews and Muslims haven't have it particularly easy integrating with the Boy Scouts, either. permalink fedilink source parent
[–] Zanothis@lemm.ee 3 points 2 years ago (1 child) If they haven't made a public statement that they've stopped excluding atheists, why should anyone assume they've changed their policies? permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] Honytawk@lemmy.zip 0 points 2 years ago* The rise of secularism permalink fedilink source parent
[–] Duamerthrax@lemmy.world 11 points 2 years ago (1 child) Start a 4-H Club. They're run by state universities, so they're subject to all their policies involving inclusivity and each club is centered on a specific topic. Want a camping/outdoor life club? Easy. Doesn't have to be Ag related. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] Eiim@lemmy.blahaj.zone 2 points 2 years ago As a former 4-Her myself, the 4-H extension office in our region is run by a state university, but the clubs themselves are community-organized. Also, many clubs in our area were general, so you could do any topic covered by the extension office and be a part of the club. permalink fedilink source parent
[–] Eiim@lemmy.blahaj.zone 2 points 2 years ago As a former 4-Her myself, the 4-H extension office in our region is run by a state university, but the clubs themselves are community-organized. Also, many clubs in our area were general, so you could do any topic covered by the extension office and be a part of the club. permalink fedilink source parent
[–] PsychedSy@lemmy.dbzer0.com 4 points 2 years ago (1 child) I got my God and Country before I became an atheist. I think my dad still has it lol permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] brbposting@sh.itjust.works 1 point 2 years ago My two favorite things Besides family of course permalink fedilink source parent
[–] brbposting@sh.itjust.works 1 point 2 years ago My two favorite things Besides family of course permalink fedilink source parent
[–] theherk@lemmy.world 4 points 2 years ago I’m an Eagle and an atheist. I don’t remember being required to confirm a belief. But even though I was part of an organization in a very small very religious town, nobody seemed to care. permalink fedilink source parent
[–] bitwaba@lemmy.world 2 points 2 years ago I lied as a scout too. We-Blows? No thanks. You blows. I'm just here for that campfire smell on my school clothes during the weekdays. permalink fedilink source parent