cross-posted from: https://lemmy.ca/post/20749204

Another positive step in the right direction for an organization rife with brokenness. There's a lot I don't like about the organization, but this is something a love--a scouting organization open to young women and the lgbtq community. The next step is being inclusive of nonreligious agnostic and atheist youth and leaders. As well as ending the cultural appropriation of Native American peoples.

May this organization continue to build up youth, never allow further violence against youth, and make amends for all the wrongs. There's a lot of good that comes out of organizations like this and I won't discount it even though it's riddled with a dark history.

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[–] 141 points 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago) (19 children)

Please do atheism and agnostics next. I finished all the way up to doing my eagle project, all I had left was to finish some paper work and I would have gotten my eagle. I quit right about then, because what was the point? They were just going to take it away from me later for not believing in some magic book, I wouldn't be the first they did it too. Absolutely ridiculous.

Edit: Any magic book** they don't even discriminate against other religions is the part that drives me even crazier. You just NEED to believe in one.

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  • [–] 59 points 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago) (13 children)

    What? As a complete outsider (I'm from Sweden, scouts isn't a thing here) what does scouting have to do with religion? Why would they discriminate against atheists?

    I thought scouting was about natural sciences, and helping out in the local community? Which to me sounds pretty nice!

    Edit: Scouts are a thing here in Sweden. Thank you for the corrections, I'm quite baffled I've managed to miss that.

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  • [–] 57 points 2 years ago* (4 children)

    The Boy Scouts of America is a Christian organization.

    Although, as I was a scout myself that shit never came into play other than the occasional group prayer at big, national events. The individual stuff in our troop was agnostic af and my troop leader was Jewish.

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  • [–] 27 points 2 years ago* (5 children)

    The Scout Law - "A scout is trustworthy, loyal, helpful, friendly, courteous, kind, obedient, cheerful, thrifty, brave, clean, and REVERANT."

    Also the scout oath: "On my honor I will do my best to do my duty to God and my country and to obey the Scout Law;....."

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  • [–] 16 points 2 years ago*

    In Canada they added a second option. Old: "On my honour; I promise that I will do my best; To do my duty to God and the King;...." New: "On my honour; I promise that I will do my best; To respect my country and my beliefs;...."

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  • [–] 18 points 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago) (1 child)

    In the US they never dropped the mandatory overtures to religiosity. In fact, there was a period in the 90s-early 2000s where one sizable religious group who had replaced their prior youth organization with the BSA got pretty involved at the national level to the detriment of the program as a whole. While it’s not really required in any real sense at the troop level, you do have to affirm a belief in some “higher power” as an adult volunteer. (I’m an Eagle Scout and now atheist)

    In Sweden, the Svenska Scoutförbundet was an outgrowth from the original UK scouting movement, but I don’t know how big it was/is.

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  • [–] 11 points 2 years ago (2 children)

    Oh, the Mormons were deep into Scouting well before the 90s, they just starting throwing their weight around as it became less popular to the general public and outside social pressures (i.e. not being dickbags) starting being voiced alongside the churchy bullshit.

    What I don't know is when they started directly paying a negotiated rate in dues straight to BSA. I do recall when I was a little LDS kid bringing my dollar a meeting or whatever for Cub Scouts, but by the time in was in Boy Scouts in junior High they'd stopped asking for that and someone told me the church handled it.

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  • [–] 4 points 2 years ago

    I know. It just seemed to me that their influence began to ramp up even more (perhaps that was just my local troop though) when the LDS Church started paying registrations and activities fees in the early 90s but it truthfully happened slowly like boiling a frog over a long time.

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  • [–] 9 points 2 years ago (1 child)

    What? Sweden don't have scouts? My daughter was on a scout camp there last year and I believe there were swedish scouts also.

    Regardless, in Denmark we have a few scout organizations. One of them KFUM (which would translate to the same as YMCA) which is the christian boy's scouting org, that also allows girls, and the similar one for girls that don't allow boys. Both of them has Christianity as a pretty foundational thing and most of the clubhouses are in or near churches and they have church services on camps and shit. Then there's DDS (dark blue uniforms) and they're not connected to any faith, but are still committed to the "spiritual development" of the scout. However this can be done in other ways than inflicting religion on children. In 1973 they merged the boy and girl scouts, so it's just one thing now. The yellow scouts branched from DDS in the 80's, with a mission to go back to more traditional scouting values. Not sure what that means, but they're a also non-religious and non-political organization.

    Finally there's some Danish Baptist scouts but I don't know much about them other than they're likely a more religious variant of KFUM, attached to another christian flavor.

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  • [–] 4 points 2 years ago

    The three core principles of scouting are:

    • Duty to God (adherence to spiritual principles, loyalty to the religion that expresses them and acceptance of the duties resulting therefrom)
    • Duty to others
    • Duty to self

    When asked where religion came into Scouting and Guiding, Baden-Powell replied "It does not come in at all. It is already there. It is a fundamental factor underlying Scouting and Guiding". Source

    So unfortunately removing religion from the scouting would remove one of the core principle of the movement, I don't think it would anytime soon.

    Which is a shame because I really enjoyed my time scouting, I think it was a great balance of fun, education and learning responsibilities. But the religion aspect of it make me seriously reconsider to send my kids to do it or not.

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  • [–] [S] 19 points 2 years ago* (3 children)

    I'm really sorry to hear this. One shouldn't have to lie about this, but should be allowed to not practice any particular faith. It's honestly one of the most frustrating elements for myself among the scouts.

    This is one of the reasons why I have embraced my own magical book about my own magical being of my own making. When conversations inevitably go towards religion, I sometimes like to express my lack of faith by describing my mystical faith in the Cabra Cosmica. Yep, I've got mythos down and everything. Ironically, I really enjoy this form of make-believe faith. 😁

    Please allow me to introduce you with a fantastic stained glass depiction: Stained glass depicting the face of the Cabra Cosmica.

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  • [–] 18 points 2 years ago (4 children)

    if you dont want to DIY it the Satanic Temple, Discordianism, Secular Paganism and The Flying Spaghetti monster all "exist."

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  • [–] 3 points 2 years ago (1 child)

    What are the tenets of Cabra? How do you know its real? (I know its not but I love invented faiths)

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  • [–] [S] 8 points 2 years ago* (4 children)

    The tenants are very much in kind with those of secular humanism. And the Cabra Cosmica is as real as I wish it to be, which is both simultaneously very real and very not.

    I often give thanks for my good fortune to the Cabra Cosmica as I do the Cosmos itself. I just wish to be thankful towards a thing at times and it can help to personify it. I mean, I did it most of my life to another false deity. Why not any other.

    I know the Cosmos. I exist within it. Science describes it and defines its laws. Sometimes I give it a face. And sometimes that is the Cabra Cosmica.

    A stained glass piece depicting a goat atop a mountain peak looking incredible and cosmic in nature.

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  • [–] 8 points 2 years ago* (1 child)

    Would they have accepted The Gospel of the Flying Spaghetti Monster?

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  • [–] 12 points 2 years ago (1 child)

    Would they have accepted The Gospel of the Flying Spaghetti Monster?

    Probably. Scouting America has been openly Deist for a long time and there is an official "Event" for Christians, Muslims, and Jews. So at least at the national level they don't seem to care what Deity you jam too as long as you have one.

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  • [–] 8 points 2 years ago

    I just didn't mention my beliefs. I think I was asked vaguely about it and I vaguely answered, but if you're still able to I'd say to do it. Having the eagle scout behind you can open some doors. It can't hurt.

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  • [–] 7 points 2 years ago

    I was in a Mormon troop, and went through with it, though only by the skin of my teeth and my dad's incessant badgering. 17.75 years old would have been right about the time I was muscling up the courage to go openly agnostic. They don't exactly follow up.

    Glad to hear about this change. I'm now somewhat less ashamed to mention it. I did the most cliche "picnic tables for the elementary school" project ever. I really didn't give a shit about advancing, but a certain ex-marine father got a bug up his ass and decided he would be the troop leader until I finished the damn thing.

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