▲ 98 ▼ Hillary Clinton to voters upset over Biden-Trump choice: ‘Get over yourself’ (thehill.com) submitted 2 years ago by return2ozma@lemmy.world to c/politics@lemmy.world 210 comments fedilink hide all child comments
[–] livus@kbin.social 7 points 2 years ago* (3 children) I thought the whole point of having a democracy was people got to choose their leaders. If you're saying leaders become too powerful to reject, that's troubling. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 6 child comments replies: [–] FanciestPants@lemmy.world 2 points 2 years ago* The people had the opportunity to choose during the primary whether they wanted to vote for someone else who holds mostly similar views (e.g. the same political party) to their own, or the person currently doing the job. There weren't a lot of people from the same political party that offered themselves up as challengers to the person currently doing the job, for a variety of reasons. Our system heavily favors the person currently doing the job in our primary elections, but challenges have been made before, just not this time. permalink fedilink source parent [–] GBU_28@lemm.ee -1 points 2 years ago Reject no, this is about Biden choosing to run permalink fedilink source parent [–] jordanlund@lemmy.world -4 points 2 years ago (1 child) You get to choose, between the Republican nominee and the Democratic nominee. If you vote Libertarian, you are helping Biden by taking away a Trump vote. If you vote Green, you are helping Trump by taking away a Biden vote. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] livus@kbin.social 5 points 2 years ago (2 children) To clarify, the above wasn't some kind of rhetorical question. I'm not American and am not asking for voting guidance. You seemed to be saying that once a politician gets to a position of power, voters are no longer allowed to try to influence their decisions around whether to run, be the nominee etc. That seems problematic to me, and against the basic principles of democracy, so I'm querying it. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 4 child comments replies: [–] whoreticulture@lemmy.blahaj.zone 1 point 2 years ago I don't think they were saying anything about what is allowed, but they were saying what is likely and realistic to expect. permalink fedilink source parent [–] jordanlund@lemmy.world 0 points 2 years ago (1 child) Incumbent politicians have multiple advantages, but if you don't want them then the choice is to vote for their opponent or not vote, which really is the same thing. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] livus@kbin.social 3 points 2 years ago (1 child) That seems really anti-democracy. If an incumbent performs poorly or breaks promises there should be mechanisms for people to ask to select another candidate to represent them. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] jordanlund@lemmy.world 0 points 2 years ago (1 child) There is, it's called "voting". But you aren't just going to remove someone as a candidate because you don't like them, that's undemocratic. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] livus@kbin.social 3 points 2 years ago (1 child) But didn't you just say they can't vote for non-Biden democrats? I feel like either I completely misunderstood your initial comment about Presidents having so much power, or else you're misunderstanding what I'm asking. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] jordanlund@lemmy.world 1 point 2 years ago (1 child) They can, it's pointless, but they can. Nobody is going to sufficiently challenge the de facto leader of the party. See all the primaries so far, on both sides. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] livus@kbin.social 2 points 2 years ago Thanks, yeah I misunderstood your initial point. Thanks for explaining. permalink fedilink source parent
[–] FanciestPants@lemmy.world 2 points 2 years ago* The people had the opportunity to choose during the primary whether they wanted to vote for someone else who holds mostly similar views (e.g. the same political party) to their own, or the person currently doing the job. There weren't a lot of people from the same political party that offered themselves up as challengers to the person currently doing the job, for a variety of reasons. Our system heavily favors the person currently doing the job in our primary elections, but challenges have been made before, just not this time. permalink fedilink source parent
[–] GBU_28@lemm.ee -1 points 2 years ago Reject no, this is about Biden choosing to run permalink fedilink source parent
[–] jordanlund@lemmy.world -4 points 2 years ago (1 child) You get to choose, between the Republican nominee and the Democratic nominee. If you vote Libertarian, you are helping Biden by taking away a Trump vote. If you vote Green, you are helping Trump by taking away a Biden vote. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] livus@kbin.social 5 points 2 years ago (2 children) To clarify, the above wasn't some kind of rhetorical question. I'm not American and am not asking for voting guidance. You seemed to be saying that once a politician gets to a position of power, voters are no longer allowed to try to influence their decisions around whether to run, be the nominee etc. That seems problematic to me, and against the basic principles of democracy, so I'm querying it. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 4 child comments replies: [–] whoreticulture@lemmy.blahaj.zone 1 point 2 years ago I don't think they were saying anything about what is allowed, but they were saying what is likely and realistic to expect. permalink fedilink source parent [–] jordanlund@lemmy.world 0 points 2 years ago (1 child) Incumbent politicians have multiple advantages, but if you don't want them then the choice is to vote for their opponent or not vote, which really is the same thing. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] livus@kbin.social 3 points 2 years ago (1 child) That seems really anti-democracy. If an incumbent performs poorly or breaks promises there should be mechanisms for people to ask to select another candidate to represent them. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] jordanlund@lemmy.world 0 points 2 years ago (1 child) There is, it's called "voting". But you aren't just going to remove someone as a candidate because you don't like them, that's undemocratic. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] livus@kbin.social 3 points 2 years ago (1 child) But didn't you just say they can't vote for non-Biden democrats? I feel like either I completely misunderstood your initial comment about Presidents having so much power, or else you're misunderstanding what I'm asking. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] jordanlund@lemmy.world 1 point 2 years ago (1 child) They can, it's pointless, but they can. Nobody is going to sufficiently challenge the de facto leader of the party. See all the primaries so far, on both sides. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] livus@kbin.social 2 points 2 years ago Thanks, yeah I misunderstood your initial point. Thanks for explaining. permalink fedilink source parent
[–] livus@kbin.social 5 points 2 years ago (2 children) To clarify, the above wasn't some kind of rhetorical question. I'm not American and am not asking for voting guidance. You seemed to be saying that once a politician gets to a position of power, voters are no longer allowed to try to influence their decisions around whether to run, be the nominee etc. That seems problematic to me, and against the basic principles of democracy, so I'm querying it. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 4 child comments replies: [–] whoreticulture@lemmy.blahaj.zone 1 point 2 years ago I don't think they were saying anything about what is allowed, but they were saying what is likely and realistic to expect. permalink fedilink source parent [–] jordanlund@lemmy.world 0 points 2 years ago (1 child) Incumbent politicians have multiple advantages, but if you don't want them then the choice is to vote for their opponent or not vote, which really is the same thing. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] livus@kbin.social 3 points 2 years ago (1 child) That seems really anti-democracy. If an incumbent performs poorly or breaks promises there should be mechanisms for people to ask to select another candidate to represent them. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] jordanlund@lemmy.world 0 points 2 years ago (1 child) There is, it's called "voting". But you aren't just going to remove someone as a candidate because you don't like them, that's undemocratic. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] livus@kbin.social 3 points 2 years ago (1 child) But didn't you just say they can't vote for non-Biden democrats? I feel like either I completely misunderstood your initial comment about Presidents having so much power, or else you're misunderstanding what I'm asking. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] jordanlund@lemmy.world 1 point 2 years ago (1 child) They can, it's pointless, but they can. Nobody is going to sufficiently challenge the de facto leader of the party. See all the primaries so far, on both sides. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] livus@kbin.social 2 points 2 years ago Thanks, yeah I misunderstood your initial point. Thanks for explaining. permalink fedilink source parent
[–] whoreticulture@lemmy.blahaj.zone 1 point 2 years ago I don't think they were saying anything about what is allowed, but they were saying what is likely and realistic to expect. permalink fedilink source parent
[–] jordanlund@lemmy.world 0 points 2 years ago (1 child) Incumbent politicians have multiple advantages, but if you don't want them then the choice is to vote for their opponent or not vote, which really is the same thing. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] livus@kbin.social 3 points 2 years ago (1 child) That seems really anti-democracy. If an incumbent performs poorly or breaks promises there should be mechanisms for people to ask to select another candidate to represent them. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] jordanlund@lemmy.world 0 points 2 years ago (1 child) There is, it's called "voting". But you aren't just going to remove someone as a candidate because you don't like them, that's undemocratic. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] livus@kbin.social 3 points 2 years ago (1 child) But didn't you just say they can't vote for non-Biden democrats? I feel like either I completely misunderstood your initial comment about Presidents having so much power, or else you're misunderstanding what I'm asking. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] jordanlund@lemmy.world 1 point 2 years ago (1 child) They can, it's pointless, but they can. Nobody is going to sufficiently challenge the de facto leader of the party. See all the primaries so far, on both sides. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] livus@kbin.social 2 points 2 years ago Thanks, yeah I misunderstood your initial point. Thanks for explaining. permalink fedilink source parent
[–] livus@kbin.social 3 points 2 years ago (1 child) That seems really anti-democracy. If an incumbent performs poorly or breaks promises there should be mechanisms for people to ask to select another candidate to represent them. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] jordanlund@lemmy.world 0 points 2 years ago (1 child) There is, it's called "voting". But you aren't just going to remove someone as a candidate because you don't like them, that's undemocratic. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] livus@kbin.social 3 points 2 years ago (1 child) But didn't you just say they can't vote for non-Biden democrats? I feel like either I completely misunderstood your initial comment about Presidents having so much power, or else you're misunderstanding what I'm asking. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] jordanlund@lemmy.world 1 point 2 years ago (1 child) They can, it's pointless, but they can. Nobody is going to sufficiently challenge the de facto leader of the party. See all the primaries so far, on both sides. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] livus@kbin.social 2 points 2 years ago Thanks, yeah I misunderstood your initial point. Thanks for explaining. permalink fedilink source parent
[–] jordanlund@lemmy.world 0 points 2 years ago (1 child) There is, it's called "voting". But you aren't just going to remove someone as a candidate because you don't like them, that's undemocratic. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] livus@kbin.social 3 points 2 years ago (1 child) But didn't you just say they can't vote for non-Biden democrats? I feel like either I completely misunderstood your initial comment about Presidents having so much power, or else you're misunderstanding what I'm asking. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] jordanlund@lemmy.world 1 point 2 years ago (1 child) They can, it's pointless, but they can. Nobody is going to sufficiently challenge the de facto leader of the party. See all the primaries so far, on both sides. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] livus@kbin.social 2 points 2 years ago Thanks, yeah I misunderstood your initial point. Thanks for explaining. permalink fedilink source parent
[–] livus@kbin.social 3 points 2 years ago (1 child) But didn't you just say they can't vote for non-Biden democrats? I feel like either I completely misunderstood your initial comment about Presidents having so much power, or else you're misunderstanding what I'm asking. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] jordanlund@lemmy.world 1 point 2 years ago (1 child) They can, it's pointless, but they can. Nobody is going to sufficiently challenge the de facto leader of the party. See all the primaries so far, on both sides. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] livus@kbin.social 2 points 2 years ago Thanks, yeah I misunderstood your initial point. Thanks for explaining. permalink fedilink source parent
[–] jordanlund@lemmy.world 1 point 2 years ago (1 child) They can, it's pointless, but they can. Nobody is going to sufficiently challenge the de facto leader of the party. See all the primaries so far, on both sides. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] livus@kbin.social 2 points 2 years ago Thanks, yeah I misunderstood your initial point. Thanks for explaining. permalink fedilink source parent
[–] livus@kbin.social 2 points 2 years ago Thanks, yeah I misunderstood your initial point. Thanks for explaining. permalink fedilink source parent