@awelder @jedsetter @nictea @philip @fuck_cars You often hear from Melburnians that it's the world's most livable city, and how the CBD is laid out nicely in the Hoddle Grid is laid out compared to inner-city.

And how Melbourne's inner-suburban tram network means it has much better public transport than Sydney.

And it's true. Colonial Melbourne, funded by its gold rush, did a much better job at planning than early Sydney.

But after the World Wars, it's a very different story.

Sydney is at least constrained by Ku-ring-gai Chase National Park to the north, the Royal National Park to the south, and the Blue Mountains to the west.

That means the only places for new sprawl are either northwest past Rouse Hill, or southwest around Campbelltown and Camden.

As a result, there's a lot more pressure from developers to densify.

Meanwhile, Melbourne just has the Dandenong Ranges to the east and Port Phillip Bay to the south.

As a result, even right now, you have new housing estates past Pakenham, Melton, Wyndham Vale, and Craigieburn.

As for sprawling Australian capitals, I think Perth has definitely been punching above its weight since the 2000s mining boom.

There's now continuous McMansions sprawl right down the Coast from north of Joondalup to south of Mandurah.

And there's new subdivisions that are closer to Bunbury than they are to the Perth or Fremantle CBDs.