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Time: Ukraine Can't Win the War (time.com)
submitted 2 years ago by to c/worldnews@lemmy.ml
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[–] [S] -5 points 2 years ago (4 children)

They're fighting against NATO expansion to Russia's border which they have been warning against for over a decade now. Even Stoltenberg admits this now:

The opposite happened. He wanted us to sign that promise, never to enlarge NATO. He wanted us to remove our military infrastructure in all Allies that have joined NATO since 1997, meaning half of NATO, all the Central and Eastern Europe, we should remove NATO from that part of our Alliance, introducing some kind of B, or second class membership. We rejected that. So he went to war to prevent NATO, more NATO, close to his borders.

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  • [–] 9 points 2 years ago (1 child)

    Yet the main reason countries at Russia's border want to join NATO is to not get attacked by Russia.

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  • [–] [S] 0 points 2 years ago (2 children)

    Nah, the main reason is that their political systems have been captured by US, while propaganda groups like the NED have poured billions into trying to shape public opinion. Yet, despite all that we're now starting to see a huge backlash against all that from the public. The massive farmer protests are just the start of that.

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  • [–] 0 points 2 years ago (1 child)

    Oh wow, it's the tankie version of US exceptionalism where the US controls everything and is all powerful.

    The US had like zero influence in the baltics when they joined, same for Georgia when they wanted to join.

    Not sure how farmer protests are involved but I hope you know that the vast majority of farmers in those protests are just people who own the farm. They don't actually work those farms and the protests so far have been against climate regulations that cut into their profit margin.

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  • [–] [S] 0 points 2 years ago (1 child)

    Image believing that US had zero influence in the Baltics despite all the evidence to the contrary.

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  • [–] 2 points 2 years ago (1 child)

    Imagine not knowing the history of the baltics

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  • [–] [S] 0 points 2 years ago (1 child)

    looks like you don't have to imagine

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  • [–] -2 points 2 years ago (1 child)

    Nope, not true, but provide no facts

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  • [–] [S] 1 point 2 years ago (1 child)

    This is publicly available information. Spend a bit of time learning how google works instead of trolling here.

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  • [–] 6 points 2 years ago* (1 child)

    I thought Putin said it was because "Ukraine is a neo-nazi regime"?

    No, wait, he said it was because the west were using Ukraine to base their weapons

    Oh, nevermind, I forgot that there is no such thing as Ukraine, it's all part of Russia

    Oh, or is it because the west are gay paedophilic gender-neutral-god-worshipping heathens

    Or was it because Ukraine was planning to pretend Russia nuked them first so that they could actually declare war on Russia

    Ah, was it to defend Donetsk and Luhansk's independence? Or are they part of Russia?

    Or is it that Ukraine has a government with no control, where the streets of Kiev are a lawless purge?

    I seem to have lost track of why he's invading. Could you clarify for me?

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  • [–] [S] -3 points 2 years ago (2 children)

    Ukraine being a neo-nazi regime doing ethnic cleansing in Donbas and planning to host NATO weapons that can strike within Russia are precisely in line with the problem of NATO expansion. Incredible that you're unable to understand how a single overarching problem can have multiple aspects to it. Hope that clarified things for you.

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  • [–] -3 points 2 years ago (1 child)

    Piss off putin

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  • [–] [S] 0 points 2 years ago (1 child)
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  • [+] -4 points 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago) (1 child)
    [removed by mod]
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  • [–] [S] 5 points 2 years ago (2 children)

    The same reason US would be against Russia turning Mexico into a battering ram against US. Meanwhile, the idea that Russia wants to take back former Soviet states is so utterly laughable. It already took Russia two years just to take on the NATO proxy in Ukraine. It's pretty clear that it would be a far bigger effort to actually take on NATO directly. Anybody with a functioning brain can see that the whole idea is absurd. Yet, here you are...

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  • [–] -1 points 2 years ago (1 child)

    You're deluded. Attack the opponent to win the argument, that's how logic works. You can't think for yourself, but you call that freedom.

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  • [–] [S] 0 points 2 years ago (1 child)

    I've made clear arguments and even provided supporting sources, if you have trouble understanding them that's not my problem.

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  • [–] 1 point 2 years ago (1 child)

    Okay, I disagree with that. Lol

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  • [+] -14 points 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago) (1 child)
    [removed by mod]
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  • [–] [S] 11 points 2 years ago (1 child)

    NATO has literally been expanding and invading countries for decades. Yugoslavia, Libya, Afghanistan, and Syria are just few examples. In fact, US currently occupies a larger portion of Syria than Russia is of Ukraine. Claiming that NATO is a defensive alliance is the height of intellectual dishonesty.

    And let's just look at a few facts about Crimea from a US government study. First thing to note is that it was never part of Ukraine proper. US government referred to it as the Autonomous Republic of Crimea. Second thing to note is that majority of the people in Crimea do not consider themselves Ukrainian, and the biggest demographic considers themselves Russian:

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  • [+] -8 points 2 years ago (2 children)

    None of those were NATO. It wasn't a NATO decision or responsibility. Each country involved made their own choices.

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  • [–] [S] 10 points 2 years ago

    Why would you lie like that. Not only were these NATO adventures, what Russia is doing in Ukraine is directly modelled on what NATO did to Yugoslavia where NATO recognized separatist regions and had them invite NATO to help. That's what Russia did with LPR and DPR. Just following the rules based order there.

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  • [+] -6 points 2 years ago (2 children)
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  • [–] [S] 14 points 2 years ago (1 child)

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  • [–] 1 point 2 years ago (1 child)

    Maybe when they are using the exact line if putin, they may be a human, but essentially a bot

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  • [–] [S] 1 point 2 years ago (1 child)

    or maybe they just don't have any actual point to make and run around smearing people instead, which always seems to be the case with liberals

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  • [–] 1 point 2 years ago (1 child)

    Everything you've written in this thread is a smear. Also, not a lib, but I'm not precious.

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  • [–] [S] 1 point 2 years ago (1 child)

    do be specific what you're claiming I've written that's a smear

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  • [–] 1 point 2 years ago* (1 child)

    Go first, answer one thing I've sent

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  • [–] [S] 0 points 2 years ago (1 child)

    You haven't answered a single thing, you just made childish personal attacks. Thanks for providing ample evidence to support my point though.

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  • [–] 1 point 2 years ago (1 child)

    Not true, but that's the truth of the Russian arguments.

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