▲ 75 ▼ Possible explanation for jank in Android as opposed to iOS (20 millisecond core ramp on ARM/Android vs 50 microseconds on Apple/iOS) (social.treehouse.systems) submitted 3 years ago* (last edited 3 years ago) by octalfudge@lemmy.world to c/apple_enthusiast@lemmy.world 27 comments fedilink hide all child comments More useful context: https://social.treehouse.systems/@chadmed/110874563649736382
[–] Sheltac@lemmy.world 34 points 3 years ago (2 children) Interesting, I always thought it had to do with Android’s ungodly software stack which at some point involves, of all things, fucking java. permalink fedilink source hideshow 4 child comments replies: [–] fartsparkles@sh.itjust.works -2 points 3 years ago (3 children) Android doesn’t use Java at a byte-code level and never has, as far as I can tell. Source code was written in Java since mobile developers were so used to it but Android never ran the JVM, they do their own thing with Java source. You can dislike Java syntax but the software stack on Android wasn’t Java’s. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 6 child comments replies: [–] Sheltac@lemmy.world 20 points 3 years ago (2 children) Wait, thats is very different from what I read back in the day. I know there was a point at, I dunno, android 5 where they started doing something different with java, but my impression was that android always ran a JVM of sorts. And frankly, given how it performs even on the highest-end devices, that was really easy to believe. I guess I need to do some research now. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 4 child comments replies: [–] bluefirex@lemmy.world 36 points 3 years ago (1 child) No you're correct. Android does run a JVM, just not Oracle's. That has always been the case. Back in the day it was Dalvik, nowadays it's ART. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] Sheltac@lemmy.world 8 points 3 years ago There you go, that’s exactly what I was thinking. Thanks! permalink fedilink source parent [–] fartsparkles@sh.itjust.works 8 points 3 years ago (1 child) Pretty sure it was Dalvik virtual machine that Java was compiled to byte code for before 4.4 when they deprecated Dalvik for Android Runtime (ART), fully dropping Dalvik in 5. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] saua@troet.cafe 7 points 3 years ago (1 child) @fartsparkles @Sheltac Android always ran dalvik bytecode and never Java bytecode The change to Art was just a replacement of the "VM", but didn't change what byte code was run. It's similar to how Hotspot improved the Java VM while also not fundamentally changing that it's running Java bytecode. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] fartsparkles@sh.itjust.works 1 point 3 years ago Thank you for the insight! permalink fedilink source parent [–] vzq@lemmy.blahaj.zone 10 points 3 years ago Dalvik/ART is essentially the same idea. It uses dalvik byte code, much in the same way the JVM operates. There’s some complexity (it’s designed to do different things, and the whole Oracle lawsuits added some wrinkles) but it’s not so different as you imply. permalink fedilink source parent [–] K0bin@feddit.de 2 points 2 years ago They compile Java Bytecode to Dalvik Bytecode and run that on the Android Runtime which is a tiered JIT compiler. It still inherits the issues of Java such as the GC, no stack allocated value types, poor cache locality, etc. Although tbf the GC on Android is pretty fucking good these days and doesn't pause the world anymore. permalink fedilink source parent [+] Aux@lemmy.world -7 points 3 years ago (2 children) Java is only used for software development, there's nothing Java during run time. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 4 child comments replies: [–] huginn@feddit.it 4 points 3 years ago (1 child) ART? permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] Aux@lemmy.world 0 points 3 years ago (2 children) ART what? permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 4 child comments replies: [–] huginn@feddit.it 4 points 3 years ago (1 child) ART is the equivalent of a JVM. It doesn't implement all the apis, the compiled bytecode differs, it's optimized for mobile but that doesn't make it not a JVM. That's why the NDK exists: so you can build and run C++ code natively. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] Aux@lemmy.world -5 points 3 years ago (1 child) Python VM is Java by your logic. If you don't understand IT, you shouldn't really talk on IT topics. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] huginn@feddit.it 2 points 3 years ago (1 child) I can use the exact same apache jars on my Android project and my Java server. That's not Python. That's very clearly java code. The implementation of the contract is different but that's not the same as not being Java. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] Aux@lemmy.world 1 point 3 years ago (1 child) You can't use the same JARs in runtime. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] huginn@feddit.it 0 points 3 years ago (1 child) You absolutely can pull the same jars into server and android projects. Sometimes you need a different one for Android to avoid NoClassDefFoundErrors but you're totally able to grab a jar and stick it directly into both sides. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] Aux@lemmy.world 0 points 3 years ago The hell are you even talking about? You can't even load a JAR file on Android. My god... permalink fedilink source parent [–] hark@lemmy.world 0 points 3 years ago Thou art wrong. permalink fedilink source parent [–] eek2121@lemmy.world 2 points 3 years ago (1 child) This is not true. See above. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] Aux@lemmy.world -4 points 3 years ago (1 child) It IS true! See the above indeed. In short - there's no Java anything during runtime and never was. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] tehcpengsiudai@lemmy.world [B] 1 point 3 years ago (1 child) How would you define what's "Java" then. The language used by source code, or the compiled bytecode, or the runtime? permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] Aux@lemmy.world -4 points 3 years ago I don't define anything, there are Java standards which define source code, binary code and runtime behaviour compatibility. That makes it possible to run Java apps on non-Oracle JVMs, use non-Oracle tools, etc. Android doesn't have anything Java outside of source code. And even Java source code is not 100% compatible. It's just not Java at all and never was. You can't even use many open source Java libraries on Android because they are not Android compatible at the source level. permalink fedilink source parent
[–] fartsparkles@sh.itjust.works -2 points 3 years ago (3 children) Android doesn’t use Java at a byte-code level and never has, as far as I can tell. Source code was written in Java since mobile developers were so used to it but Android never ran the JVM, they do their own thing with Java source. You can dislike Java syntax but the software stack on Android wasn’t Java’s. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 6 child comments replies: [–] Sheltac@lemmy.world 20 points 3 years ago (2 children) Wait, thats is very different from what I read back in the day. I know there was a point at, I dunno, android 5 where they started doing something different with java, but my impression was that android always ran a JVM of sorts. And frankly, given how it performs even on the highest-end devices, that was really easy to believe. I guess I need to do some research now. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 4 child comments replies: [–] bluefirex@lemmy.world 36 points 3 years ago (1 child) No you're correct. Android does run a JVM, just not Oracle's. That has always been the case. Back in the day it was Dalvik, nowadays it's ART. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] Sheltac@lemmy.world 8 points 3 years ago There you go, that’s exactly what I was thinking. Thanks! permalink fedilink source parent [–] fartsparkles@sh.itjust.works 8 points 3 years ago (1 child) Pretty sure it was Dalvik virtual machine that Java was compiled to byte code for before 4.4 when they deprecated Dalvik for Android Runtime (ART), fully dropping Dalvik in 5. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] saua@troet.cafe 7 points 3 years ago (1 child) @fartsparkles @Sheltac Android always ran dalvik bytecode and never Java bytecode The change to Art was just a replacement of the "VM", but didn't change what byte code was run. It's similar to how Hotspot improved the Java VM while also not fundamentally changing that it's running Java bytecode. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] fartsparkles@sh.itjust.works 1 point 3 years ago Thank you for the insight! permalink fedilink source parent [–] vzq@lemmy.blahaj.zone 10 points 3 years ago Dalvik/ART is essentially the same idea. It uses dalvik byte code, much in the same way the JVM operates. There’s some complexity (it’s designed to do different things, and the whole Oracle lawsuits added some wrinkles) but it’s not so different as you imply. permalink fedilink source parent [–] K0bin@feddit.de 2 points 2 years ago They compile Java Bytecode to Dalvik Bytecode and run that on the Android Runtime which is a tiered JIT compiler. It still inherits the issues of Java such as the GC, no stack allocated value types, poor cache locality, etc. Although tbf the GC on Android is pretty fucking good these days and doesn't pause the world anymore. permalink fedilink source parent
[–] Sheltac@lemmy.world 20 points 3 years ago (2 children) Wait, thats is very different from what I read back in the day. I know there was a point at, I dunno, android 5 where they started doing something different with java, but my impression was that android always ran a JVM of sorts. And frankly, given how it performs even on the highest-end devices, that was really easy to believe. I guess I need to do some research now. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 4 child comments replies: [–] bluefirex@lemmy.world 36 points 3 years ago (1 child) No you're correct. Android does run a JVM, just not Oracle's. That has always been the case. Back in the day it was Dalvik, nowadays it's ART. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] Sheltac@lemmy.world 8 points 3 years ago There you go, that’s exactly what I was thinking. Thanks! permalink fedilink source parent [–] fartsparkles@sh.itjust.works 8 points 3 years ago (1 child) Pretty sure it was Dalvik virtual machine that Java was compiled to byte code for before 4.4 when they deprecated Dalvik for Android Runtime (ART), fully dropping Dalvik in 5. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] saua@troet.cafe 7 points 3 years ago (1 child) @fartsparkles @Sheltac Android always ran dalvik bytecode and never Java bytecode The change to Art was just a replacement of the "VM", but didn't change what byte code was run. It's similar to how Hotspot improved the Java VM while also not fundamentally changing that it's running Java bytecode. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] fartsparkles@sh.itjust.works 1 point 3 years ago Thank you for the insight! permalink fedilink source parent
[–] bluefirex@lemmy.world 36 points 3 years ago (1 child) No you're correct. Android does run a JVM, just not Oracle's. That has always been the case. Back in the day it was Dalvik, nowadays it's ART. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] Sheltac@lemmy.world 8 points 3 years ago There you go, that’s exactly what I was thinking. Thanks! permalink fedilink source parent
[–] Sheltac@lemmy.world 8 points 3 years ago There you go, that’s exactly what I was thinking. Thanks! permalink fedilink source parent
[–] fartsparkles@sh.itjust.works 8 points 3 years ago (1 child) Pretty sure it was Dalvik virtual machine that Java was compiled to byte code for before 4.4 when they deprecated Dalvik for Android Runtime (ART), fully dropping Dalvik in 5. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] saua@troet.cafe 7 points 3 years ago (1 child) @fartsparkles @Sheltac Android always ran dalvik bytecode and never Java bytecode The change to Art was just a replacement of the "VM", but didn't change what byte code was run. It's similar to how Hotspot improved the Java VM while also not fundamentally changing that it's running Java bytecode. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] fartsparkles@sh.itjust.works 1 point 3 years ago Thank you for the insight! permalink fedilink source parent
[–] saua@troet.cafe 7 points 3 years ago (1 child) @fartsparkles @Sheltac Android always ran dalvik bytecode and never Java bytecode The change to Art was just a replacement of the "VM", but didn't change what byte code was run. It's similar to how Hotspot improved the Java VM while also not fundamentally changing that it's running Java bytecode. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] fartsparkles@sh.itjust.works 1 point 3 years ago Thank you for the insight! permalink fedilink source parent
[–] fartsparkles@sh.itjust.works 1 point 3 years ago Thank you for the insight! permalink fedilink source parent
[–] vzq@lemmy.blahaj.zone 10 points 3 years ago Dalvik/ART is essentially the same idea. It uses dalvik byte code, much in the same way the JVM operates. There’s some complexity (it’s designed to do different things, and the whole Oracle lawsuits added some wrinkles) but it’s not so different as you imply. permalink fedilink source parent
[–] K0bin@feddit.de 2 points 2 years ago They compile Java Bytecode to Dalvik Bytecode and run that on the Android Runtime which is a tiered JIT compiler. It still inherits the issues of Java such as the GC, no stack allocated value types, poor cache locality, etc. Although tbf the GC on Android is pretty fucking good these days and doesn't pause the world anymore. permalink fedilink source parent
[+] Aux@lemmy.world -7 points 3 years ago (2 children) Java is only used for software development, there's nothing Java during run time. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 4 child comments replies: [–] huginn@feddit.it 4 points 3 years ago (1 child) ART? permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] Aux@lemmy.world 0 points 3 years ago (2 children) ART what? permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 4 child comments replies: [–] huginn@feddit.it 4 points 3 years ago (1 child) ART is the equivalent of a JVM. It doesn't implement all the apis, the compiled bytecode differs, it's optimized for mobile but that doesn't make it not a JVM. That's why the NDK exists: so you can build and run C++ code natively. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] Aux@lemmy.world -5 points 3 years ago (1 child) Python VM is Java by your logic. If you don't understand IT, you shouldn't really talk on IT topics. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] huginn@feddit.it 2 points 3 years ago (1 child) I can use the exact same apache jars on my Android project and my Java server. That's not Python. That's very clearly java code. The implementation of the contract is different but that's not the same as not being Java. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] Aux@lemmy.world 1 point 3 years ago (1 child) You can't use the same JARs in runtime. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] huginn@feddit.it 0 points 3 years ago (1 child) You absolutely can pull the same jars into server and android projects. Sometimes you need a different one for Android to avoid NoClassDefFoundErrors but you're totally able to grab a jar and stick it directly into both sides. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] Aux@lemmy.world 0 points 3 years ago The hell are you even talking about? You can't even load a JAR file on Android. My god... permalink fedilink source parent [–] hark@lemmy.world 0 points 3 years ago Thou art wrong. permalink fedilink source parent [–] eek2121@lemmy.world 2 points 3 years ago (1 child) This is not true. See above. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] Aux@lemmy.world -4 points 3 years ago (1 child) It IS true! See the above indeed. In short - there's no Java anything during runtime and never was. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] tehcpengsiudai@lemmy.world [B] 1 point 3 years ago (1 child) How would you define what's "Java" then. The language used by source code, or the compiled bytecode, or the runtime? permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] Aux@lemmy.world -4 points 3 years ago I don't define anything, there are Java standards which define source code, binary code and runtime behaviour compatibility. That makes it possible to run Java apps on non-Oracle JVMs, use non-Oracle tools, etc. Android doesn't have anything Java outside of source code. And even Java source code is not 100% compatible. It's just not Java at all and never was. You can't even use many open source Java libraries on Android because they are not Android compatible at the source level. permalink fedilink source parent
[–] huginn@feddit.it 4 points 3 years ago (1 child) ART? permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] Aux@lemmy.world 0 points 3 years ago (2 children) ART what? permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 4 child comments replies: [–] huginn@feddit.it 4 points 3 years ago (1 child) ART is the equivalent of a JVM. It doesn't implement all the apis, the compiled bytecode differs, it's optimized for mobile but that doesn't make it not a JVM. That's why the NDK exists: so you can build and run C++ code natively. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] Aux@lemmy.world -5 points 3 years ago (1 child) Python VM is Java by your logic. If you don't understand IT, you shouldn't really talk on IT topics. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] huginn@feddit.it 2 points 3 years ago (1 child) I can use the exact same apache jars on my Android project and my Java server. That's not Python. That's very clearly java code. The implementation of the contract is different but that's not the same as not being Java. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] Aux@lemmy.world 1 point 3 years ago (1 child) You can't use the same JARs in runtime. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] huginn@feddit.it 0 points 3 years ago (1 child) You absolutely can pull the same jars into server and android projects. Sometimes you need a different one for Android to avoid NoClassDefFoundErrors but you're totally able to grab a jar and stick it directly into both sides. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] Aux@lemmy.world 0 points 3 years ago The hell are you even talking about? You can't even load a JAR file on Android. My god... permalink fedilink source parent [–] hark@lemmy.world 0 points 3 years ago Thou art wrong. permalink fedilink source parent
[–] Aux@lemmy.world 0 points 3 years ago (2 children) ART what? permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 4 child comments replies: [–] huginn@feddit.it 4 points 3 years ago (1 child) ART is the equivalent of a JVM. It doesn't implement all the apis, the compiled bytecode differs, it's optimized for mobile but that doesn't make it not a JVM. That's why the NDK exists: so you can build and run C++ code natively. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] Aux@lemmy.world -5 points 3 years ago (1 child) Python VM is Java by your logic. If you don't understand IT, you shouldn't really talk on IT topics. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] huginn@feddit.it 2 points 3 years ago (1 child) I can use the exact same apache jars on my Android project and my Java server. That's not Python. That's very clearly java code. The implementation of the contract is different but that's not the same as not being Java. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] Aux@lemmy.world 1 point 3 years ago (1 child) You can't use the same JARs in runtime. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] huginn@feddit.it 0 points 3 years ago (1 child) You absolutely can pull the same jars into server and android projects. Sometimes you need a different one for Android to avoid NoClassDefFoundErrors but you're totally able to grab a jar and stick it directly into both sides. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] Aux@lemmy.world 0 points 3 years ago The hell are you even talking about? You can't even load a JAR file on Android. My god... permalink fedilink source parent [–] hark@lemmy.world 0 points 3 years ago Thou art wrong. permalink fedilink source parent
[–] huginn@feddit.it 4 points 3 years ago (1 child) ART is the equivalent of a JVM. It doesn't implement all the apis, the compiled bytecode differs, it's optimized for mobile but that doesn't make it not a JVM. That's why the NDK exists: so you can build and run C++ code natively. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] Aux@lemmy.world -5 points 3 years ago (1 child) Python VM is Java by your logic. If you don't understand IT, you shouldn't really talk on IT topics. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] huginn@feddit.it 2 points 3 years ago (1 child) I can use the exact same apache jars on my Android project and my Java server. That's not Python. That's very clearly java code. The implementation of the contract is different but that's not the same as not being Java. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] Aux@lemmy.world 1 point 3 years ago (1 child) You can't use the same JARs in runtime. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] huginn@feddit.it 0 points 3 years ago (1 child) You absolutely can pull the same jars into server and android projects. Sometimes you need a different one for Android to avoid NoClassDefFoundErrors but you're totally able to grab a jar and stick it directly into both sides. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] Aux@lemmy.world 0 points 3 years ago The hell are you even talking about? You can't even load a JAR file on Android. My god... permalink fedilink source parent
[–] Aux@lemmy.world -5 points 3 years ago (1 child) Python VM is Java by your logic. If you don't understand IT, you shouldn't really talk on IT topics. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] huginn@feddit.it 2 points 3 years ago (1 child) I can use the exact same apache jars on my Android project and my Java server. That's not Python. That's very clearly java code. The implementation of the contract is different but that's not the same as not being Java. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] Aux@lemmy.world 1 point 3 years ago (1 child) You can't use the same JARs in runtime. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] huginn@feddit.it 0 points 3 years ago (1 child) You absolutely can pull the same jars into server and android projects. Sometimes you need a different one for Android to avoid NoClassDefFoundErrors but you're totally able to grab a jar and stick it directly into both sides. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] Aux@lemmy.world 0 points 3 years ago The hell are you even talking about? You can't even load a JAR file on Android. My god... permalink fedilink source parent
[–] huginn@feddit.it 2 points 3 years ago (1 child) I can use the exact same apache jars on my Android project and my Java server. That's not Python. That's very clearly java code. The implementation of the contract is different but that's not the same as not being Java. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] Aux@lemmy.world 1 point 3 years ago (1 child) You can't use the same JARs in runtime. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] huginn@feddit.it 0 points 3 years ago (1 child) You absolutely can pull the same jars into server and android projects. Sometimes you need a different one for Android to avoid NoClassDefFoundErrors but you're totally able to grab a jar and stick it directly into both sides. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] Aux@lemmy.world 0 points 3 years ago The hell are you even talking about? You can't even load a JAR file on Android. My god... permalink fedilink source parent
[–] Aux@lemmy.world 1 point 3 years ago (1 child) You can't use the same JARs in runtime. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] huginn@feddit.it 0 points 3 years ago (1 child) You absolutely can pull the same jars into server and android projects. Sometimes you need a different one for Android to avoid NoClassDefFoundErrors but you're totally able to grab a jar and stick it directly into both sides. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] Aux@lemmy.world 0 points 3 years ago The hell are you even talking about? You can't even load a JAR file on Android. My god... permalink fedilink source parent
[–] huginn@feddit.it 0 points 3 years ago (1 child) You absolutely can pull the same jars into server and android projects. Sometimes you need a different one for Android to avoid NoClassDefFoundErrors but you're totally able to grab a jar and stick it directly into both sides. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] Aux@lemmy.world 0 points 3 years ago The hell are you even talking about? You can't even load a JAR file on Android. My god... permalink fedilink source parent
[–] Aux@lemmy.world 0 points 3 years ago The hell are you even talking about? You can't even load a JAR file on Android. My god... permalink fedilink source parent
[–] eek2121@lemmy.world 2 points 3 years ago (1 child) This is not true. See above. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] Aux@lemmy.world -4 points 3 years ago (1 child) It IS true! See the above indeed. In short - there's no Java anything during runtime and never was. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] tehcpengsiudai@lemmy.world [B] 1 point 3 years ago (1 child) How would you define what's "Java" then. The language used by source code, or the compiled bytecode, or the runtime? permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] Aux@lemmy.world -4 points 3 years ago I don't define anything, there are Java standards which define source code, binary code and runtime behaviour compatibility. That makes it possible to run Java apps on non-Oracle JVMs, use non-Oracle tools, etc. Android doesn't have anything Java outside of source code. And even Java source code is not 100% compatible. It's just not Java at all and never was. You can't even use many open source Java libraries on Android because they are not Android compatible at the source level. permalink fedilink source parent
[–] Aux@lemmy.world -4 points 3 years ago (1 child) It IS true! See the above indeed. In short - there's no Java anything during runtime and never was. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] tehcpengsiudai@lemmy.world [B] 1 point 3 years ago (1 child) How would you define what's "Java" then. The language used by source code, or the compiled bytecode, or the runtime? permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] Aux@lemmy.world -4 points 3 years ago I don't define anything, there are Java standards which define source code, binary code and runtime behaviour compatibility. That makes it possible to run Java apps on non-Oracle JVMs, use non-Oracle tools, etc. Android doesn't have anything Java outside of source code. And even Java source code is not 100% compatible. It's just not Java at all and never was. You can't even use many open source Java libraries on Android because they are not Android compatible at the source level. permalink fedilink source parent
[–] tehcpengsiudai@lemmy.world [B] 1 point 3 years ago (1 child) How would you define what's "Java" then. The language used by source code, or the compiled bytecode, or the runtime? permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] Aux@lemmy.world -4 points 3 years ago I don't define anything, there are Java standards which define source code, binary code and runtime behaviour compatibility. That makes it possible to run Java apps on non-Oracle JVMs, use non-Oracle tools, etc. Android doesn't have anything Java outside of source code. And even Java source code is not 100% compatible. It's just not Java at all and never was. You can't even use many open source Java libraries on Android because they are not Android compatible at the source level. permalink fedilink source parent
[–] Aux@lemmy.world -4 points 3 years ago I don't define anything, there are Java standards which define source code, binary code and runtime behaviour compatibility. That makes it possible to run Java apps on non-Oracle JVMs, use non-Oracle tools, etc. Android doesn't have anything Java outside of source code. And even Java source code is not 100% compatible. It's just not Java at all and never was. You can't even use many open source Java libraries on Android because they are not Android compatible at the source level. permalink fedilink source parent