▲ 178 ▼ Human Rights Watch says rocket misfire likely cause of deadly Gaza hospital blast (www.reuters.com) submitted 2 years ago by criticalthreshold@lemmy.world to c/news@lemmy.world 129 comments fedilink hide all child comments
[–] crashfrog@lemm.ee 1 point 2 years ago* (1 child) They're "found reliable", but not actually checked. Like, nobody actually checks Hamas' numbers; they just "confirm" them. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] girlfreddy@lemmy.world 8 points 2 years ago (1 child) Confirming numbers comes from actually checking them. Pedanticism isn't a good look. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] crashfrog@lemm.ee 5 points 2 years ago (1 child) They don't, though. Check. They can't. No independent body can operate freely in Gaza, it's under Hamas control. They know that Hamas can rescind whatever meager access they have, and so they figure that humanitarian purpose is better satisfied by preserving access by not angering Hamas. But they don't have access to strike sites, they don't have access to morgues. Islam requires the dead be buried by nightfall, so there's simply no opportunity for independent observers to actually verify body counts. They're just demographically "verified" - "oh, we know about that many people lived in the apartment block, so X is a plausible figure for deaths." But that's not confirmation. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] girlfreddy@lemmy.world 3 points 2 years ago (3 children) No independent body can operate freely in Gaza, it's under Hamas control. Kind of like no independent journalists can investigate in Gaza about Israeli-built tunnels under a hospital under IDF control, right? This is one of the few both-sides arguments that can be legitimately made. Never mind the fact that Palestinians haven't had an election in Gaza in almost 20 years and a number of elected officials are in Israeli jails. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 6 child comments replies: [–] kick_out_the_jams@kbin.social 4 points 2 years ago* (1 child) Never mind the fact that Palestinians haven’t had an election in Gaza in almost 20 years since Hamas took over permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] girlfreddy@lemmy.world -4 points 2 years ago Well ofc since Hamas was elected since Hamas is the ruling party now. I thought that would be self-evident. permalink fedilink source parent [–] pingveno@kbin.social -1 points 2 years ago Kind of like no independent journalists can investigate in Gaza about Israeli-built tunnels under a hospital under IDF control, right? Okay, so explain this: why would Israel lie about the tunnels? It makes perfect sense that Hamas would operate largely in tunnels including under vital infrastructure, tunnels are used for smuggling in other places around the world, and bringing the IDF into hospitals is a huge headache in terms of PR. So what's in it for Israel? permalink fedilink source parent [–] crashfrog@lemm.ee -1 points 2 years ago Kind of like no independent journalists can investigate in Gaza about Israeli-built tunnels under a hospital under IDF control, right? Kind of the opposite, in fact? The IDF brought in independent journalists to the tunnels, proving that they'd been right about them all along. permalink fedilink source parent
[–] girlfreddy@lemmy.world 8 points 2 years ago (1 child) Confirming numbers comes from actually checking them. Pedanticism isn't a good look. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] crashfrog@lemm.ee 5 points 2 years ago (1 child) They don't, though. Check. They can't. No independent body can operate freely in Gaza, it's under Hamas control. They know that Hamas can rescind whatever meager access they have, and so they figure that humanitarian purpose is better satisfied by preserving access by not angering Hamas. But they don't have access to strike sites, they don't have access to morgues. Islam requires the dead be buried by nightfall, so there's simply no opportunity for independent observers to actually verify body counts. They're just demographically "verified" - "oh, we know about that many people lived in the apartment block, so X is a plausible figure for deaths." But that's not confirmation. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] girlfreddy@lemmy.world 3 points 2 years ago (3 children) No independent body can operate freely in Gaza, it's under Hamas control. Kind of like no independent journalists can investigate in Gaza about Israeli-built tunnels under a hospital under IDF control, right? This is one of the few both-sides arguments that can be legitimately made. Never mind the fact that Palestinians haven't had an election in Gaza in almost 20 years and a number of elected officials are in Israeli jails. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 6 child comments replies: [–] kick_out_the_jams@kbin.social 4 points 2 years ago* (1 child) Never mind the fact that Palestinians haven’t had an election in Gaza in almost 20 years since Hamas took over permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] girlfreddy@lemmy.world -4 points 2 years ago Well ofc since Hamas was elected since Hamas is the ruling party now. I thought that would be self-evident. permalink fedilink source parent [–] pingveno@kbin.social -1 points 2 years ago Kind of like no independent journalists can investigate in Gaza about Israeli-built tunnels under a hospital under IDF control, right? Okay, so explain this: why would Israel lie about the tunnels? It makes perfect sense that Hamas would operate largely in tunnels including under vital infrastructure, tunnels are used for smuggling in other places around the world, and bringing the IDF into hospitals is a huge headache in terms of PR. So what's in it for Israel? permalink fedilink source parent [–] crashfrog@lemm.ee -1 points 2 years ago Kind of like no independent journalists can investigate in Gaza about Israeli-built tunnels under a hospital under IDF control, right? Kind of the opposite, in fact? The IDF brought in independent journalists to the tunnels, proving that they'd been right about them all along. permalink fedilink source parent
[–] crashfrog@lemm.ee 5 points 2 years ago (1 child) They don't, though. Check. They can't. No independent body can operate freely in Gaza, it's under Hamas control. They know that Hamas can rescind whatever meager access they have, and so they figure that humanitarian purpose is better satisfied by preserving access by not angering Hamas. But they don't have access to strike sites, they don't have access to morgues. Islam requires the dead be buried by nightfall, so there's simply no opportunity for independent observers to actually verify body counts. They're just demographically "verified" - "oh, we know about that many people lived in the apartment block, so X is a plausible figure for deaths." But that's not confirmation. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] girlfreddy@lemmy.world 3 points 2 years ago (3 children) No independent body can operate freely in Gaza, it's under Hamas control. Kind of like no independent journalists can investigate in Gaza about Israeli-built tunnels under a hospital under IDF control, right? This is one of the few both-sides arguments that can be legitimately made. Never mind the fact that Palestinians haven't had an election in Gaza in almost 20 years and a number of elected officials are in Israeli jails. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 6 child comments replies: [–] kick_out_the_jams@kbin.social 4 points 2 years ago* (1 child) Never mind the fact that Palestinians haven’t had an election in Gaza in almost 20 years since Hamas took over permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] girlfreddy@lemmy.world -4 points 2 years ago Well ofc since Hamas was elected since Hamas is the ruling party now. I thought that would be self-evident. permalink fedilink source parent [–] pingveno@kbin.social -1 points 2 years ago Kind of like no independent journalists can investigate in Gaza about Israeli-built tunnels under a hospital under IDF control, right? Okay, so explain this: why would Israel lie about the tunnels? It makes perfect sense that Hamas would operate largely in tunnels including under vital infrastructure, tunnels are used for smuggling in other places around the world, and bringing the IDF into hospitals is a huge headache in terms of PR. So what's in it for Israel? permalink fedilink source parent [–] crashfrog@lemm.ee -1 points 2 years ago Kind of like no independent journalists can investigate in Gaza about Israeli-built tunnels under a hospital under IDF control, right? Kind of the opposite, in fact? The IDF brought in independent journalists to the tunnels, proving that they'd been right about them all along. permalink fedilink source parent
[–] girlfreddy@lemmy.world 3 points 2 years ago (3 children) No independent body can operate freely in Gaza, it's under Hamas control. Kind of like no independent journalists can investigate in Gaza about Israeli-built tunnels under a hospital under IDF control, right? This is one of the few both-sides arguments that can be legitimately made. Never mind the fact that Palestinians haven't had an election in Gaza in almost 20 years and a number of elected officials are in Israeli jails. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 6 child comments replies: [–] kick_out_the_jams@kbin.social 4 points 2 years ago* (1 child) Never mind the fact that Palestinians haven’t had an election in Gaza in almost 20 years since Hamas took over permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] girlfreddy@lemmy.world -4 points 2 years ago Well ofc since Hamas was elected since Hamas is the ruling party now. I thought that would be self-evident. permalink fedilink source parent [–] pingveno@kbin.social -1 points 2 years ago Kind of like no independent journalists can investigate in Gaza about Israeli-built tunnels under a hospital under IDF control, right? Okay, so explain this: why would Israel lie about the tunnels? It makes perfect sense that Hamas would operate largely in tunnels including under vital infrastructure, tunnels are used for smuggling in other places around the world, and bringing the IDF into hospitals is a huge headache in terms of PR. So what's in it for Israel? permalink fedilink source parent [–] crashfrog@lemm.ee -1 points 2 years ago Kind of like no independent journalists can investigate in Gaza about Israeli-built tunnels under a hospital under IDF control, right? Kind of the opposite, in fact? The IDF brought in independent journalists to the tunnels, proving that they'd been right about them all along. permalink fedilink source parent
[–] kick_out_the_jams@kbin.social 4 points 2 years ago* (1 child) Never mind the fact that Palestinians haven’t had an election in Gaza in almost 20 years since Hamas took over permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] girlfreddy@lemmy.world -4 points 2 years ago Well ofc since Hamas was elected since Hamas is the ruling party now. I thought that would be self-evident. permalink fedilink source parent
[–] girlfreddy@lemmy.world -4 points 2 years ago Well ofc since Hamas was elected since Hamas is the ruling party now. I thought that would be self-evident. permalink fedilink source parent
[–] pingveno@kbin.social -1 points 2 years ago Kind of like no independent journalists can investigate in Gaza about Israeli-built tunnels under a hospital under IDF control, right? Okay, so explain this: why would Israel lie about the tunnels? It makes perfect sense that Hamas would operate largely in tunnels including under vital infrastructure, tunnels are used for smuggling in other places around the world, and bringing the IDF into hospitals is a huge headache in terms of PR. So what's in it for Israel? permalink fedilink source parent
[–] crashfrog@lemm.ee -1 points 2 years ago Kind of like no independent journalists can investigate in Gaza about Israeli-built tunnels under a hospital under IDF control, right? Kind of the opposite, in fact? The IDF brought in independent journalists to the tunnels, proving that they'd been right about them all along. permalink fedilink source parent