you are viewing a single comment's thread
view the rest of the comments
[+] -55 points 2 years ago (5 children)

Churchill was a racist idiot and that’s still a dumb quote.

Democracy is a plane with 20 people on it. Nine vote not to crash it and eleven vote to fly it into a mountain, and that means everyone dies because democracy

  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 10 child comments
  • [–] 46 points 2 years ago* (3 children)

    So instead you choose authoritarianism: 20 people on a plan and one of them shoots the pilot, takes over, and crashes it. Everyone dies.

  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 6 child comments
  • [+] -20 points 2 years ago (2 children)

    Love how you think that not only are there only two options, but that democracy isn’t also authoritarian. It’s just mob rule instead of an individual.

  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 4 child comments
  • [–] 33 points 2 years ago (1 child)

    Churchill's point is that stupid things can still happen in democracies, but no one has come up with a better alternative. What would you suggest as the better alternative? If you don't have one, then you just helped prove Churchill's point!

  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 2 child comments
  • [+] -30 points 2 years ago (5 children)

    Every human knows and has used a superior system from the time they first started playing with other people: Consensus.

  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 10 child comments
  • [–] 26 points 2 years ago (1 child)

    ...which is basically what democracy is, but systemitized such that it can be applied at scale.

  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 2 child comments
  • [+] -18 points 2 years ago (1 child)

    If we had a consensus based government I wouldn’t have a fascist as a representative

  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 2 child comments
  • [–] 12 points 2 years ago (1 child)

    There are more people than just you in your district

  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 2 child comments
  • [–] -2 points 2 years ago (1 child)

    Yes and we should all agree on who is going to represent us. Otherwise the losing party is disenfranchised.

  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 2 child comments
  • [–] 9 points 2 years ago (1 child)

    You're not going to get unanimous approval for anything when your group size is several thousand people

  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 2 child comments
  • [–] -1 points 2 years ago (2 children)

    Maybe the groups should be smaller then

  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 4 child comments
  • [–] 6 points 2 years ago (1 child)

    Also, smaller groups mean more representatives, which means unanimity/consensus as you say would also be unlikely at the national level.

  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 2 child comments
  • [–] -3 points 2 years ago (1 child)

    I don't believe in nations, either, so that's not a problem for me

  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 2 child comments
  • [–] 5 points 2 years ago (1 child)

    Sorry to inform you of this, but nations exist whether you want to believe in them or not.

  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 2 child comments
  • [–] -2 points 2 years ago (1 child)

    Just like God, right? God exists regardless of whether I believe in Him?

  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 2 child comments
  • [–] 4 points 2 years ago (1 child)

    The difference is, there is evidence for nations existence while there is none for any floating man in the sky who judges you when you die.

  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 2 child comments
  • [–] -3 points 2 years ago (1 child)

    What evidence? There’s no borders on the earth. All of the evidence for nations is the same as evidence for god: stuff people made.

  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 2 child comments
  • [–] 3 points 2 years ago (1 child)

    And? The stuff people made provides no evidence for God. Only that they revere a being. The systems, power structures and diplomatic missions that people have created point to real, tangible evidence of nations that exist, have motives and can enact meaningful change in the world. God has none of that.

    Are tables and chairs any less real simply because people created them?

  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 2 child comments
  • [–] -1 points 2 years ago (1 child)

    Don’t religions have power structures and diplomatic missions?

    Tables and chairs actually exist in the physical world. They’re objectively real. Countries - like gods - are inter subjectively real.

  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 2 child comments
  • Sure, but people and organizations act through those. Not gods.

    Tables and chairs are nothing more of amalgamations of wood, metal and paint. Nations are nothing more than amalgamations of people acting through institutions. Imo, they're both equally real, because we as intelligent beings have created them and ascribed them meaning and power.

  • source
  • parent
  • [–] 9 points 2 years ago (1 child)
  • [+] -15 points 2 years ago (2 children)

    Democracy is majority rule, and fuck whatever the minority wants.

    Consensus is we don’t do anything unless we all agree.

  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 4 child comments
  • [–] 8 points 2 years ago (1 child)

    Then you don't do anything. Ok got it, 👍🏾

  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 2 child comments
  • [–] -4 points 2 years ago (1 child)

    So the only way to get anything done is to do it against the will of at least some people? You've never been in a group where you agreed on a course of action together?

  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 2 child comments
  • [–] 6 points 2 years ago* (1 child)

    In a group.. you mean a very limited setting where you can discuss directly with everyone and get direct feedback in real time from everyone?

    How do you suggest that this might work on a large scale, with millions of people?

    Edit: And if for example 10 million people somehow found consensus and then one guy is like "lmao no", everything gets canned?

  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 2 child comments
  • [–] 0 points 2 years ago (1 child)

    There's lots of ideas about this, but my solution is to simply eliminate the idea that we need to rule millions of people.

  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 2 child comments
  • [–] 4 points 2 years ago (1 child)

    So some form of tribalism? And what if you generally like living in your consensus community but one thing rubs you wrong and you're against it? You just leave and look for a community where you agree with everything 100% all the time? Good luck with that.

  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 2 child comments
  • [–] 1 point 2 years ago (1 child)

    What would you do if your roommate wouldn't help with the housework? Or had some quirk you didn't like? Would you just leave or would you try to work it out?

    One thing this thread has taught me is a lot more people than I think can't conceive of alternatives to the shitty system we have. Churchill said it's the best so we're not gonna change it, right?

  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 2 child comments
  • [–] 1 point 2 years ago* (1 child)

    No, you are not elaborating on your better alternatives. We KNOW that democracy is nort perfect. We are just looking for a solution that is doable in todays world. So now you come in and claim to somehow have a better way to do it. But when questioned, your answers are very vague, we have to pull all the info out of your nose. This tells me you probably don't have any better solutions or just some vague idea of one and no real world application for it.

    Of course I would try to work it out. But you just assume this always happens, but what if it DOESN'T?

  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 2 child comments
  • [–] 0 points 2 years ago* (1 child)

    I'm sorry I didn't have a full treatise on the implementation of anarchism in a modern society prepared for you. I forgot the Internet is Very Serious Business™ and I get paid for educating people on it, not my actual job.

  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 2 child comments
  • [–] 10 points 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago)

    It's more like,

    • 2 hijackers vote to crash
    • 1 votes with the hijackers because they share a hometown
    • 2 vote no
    • another 2 vote strong no
    • the other 12 don't participate because they don't want to get too political (we have 40% voter turnout where I live)

    and I've been through enough elections to see how we are all heading to a crash, every time.

  • source
  • parent
  • [–] 9 points 2 years ago

    But if we made you running everything it would be perfect.

    That's the thing with anti-democracy sentiment the people who advocate for it always assume they, or someone who agrees with them on everything, is going to run things. No one imagines themselves in a slave society being a slave.

  • source
  • parent