▲ 349 ▼ A new trend in tipping emerges (lemmy.world) submitted 3 years ago by STRIKINGdebate2@lemmy.world to c/mildlyinfuriating@lemmy.world 269 comments fedilink hide all child comments
[–] Diprount_Tomato@lemmy.world 108 points 3 years ago (4 children) Nobody but your boss has to give you the pay you deserve permalink fedilink source hideshow 8 child comments replies: [–] lingh0e@lemmy.world 14 points 3 years ago You're not wrong, but anyone who leaves shit like this or the stupid church dollars as a tip is a special kind of asshole. permalink fedilink source parent [–] ruination@discuss.tchncs.de 6 points 3 years ago (2 children) Who the fuck is downvoting this? permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 4 child comments replies: [–] Diprount_Tomato@lemmy.world 4 points 3 years ago (1 child) 14 people permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] ruination@discuss.tchncs.de 4 points 3 years ago (1 child) You're not wrong. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] samus12345@lemmy.world 2 points 3 years ago (1 child) But they also didn't answer the question. They said how many, not who. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] Kinyutaka@lemmy.world 4 points 3 years ago Restaurant owners permalink fedilink source parent [–] BraBraBra@lemmy.world 2 points 3 years ago Servers making bank. permalink fedilink source parent [+] iiVy@lemmy.blahaj.zone -31 points 3 years ago (5 children) If you can't afford to tip, you can't afford to eat out or order delivery. Just because the tip system is a terrible system doesn't mean you have an excuse to fuck over the victims of it. Until there's a national strike on tipping that could lead thousands of tip reliant workers to quit (like the writers strike), be a decent person and have some sympathy. Instead of eating out and not tipping, don't eat out. The restaurant gets the same amount of money whether you tip or not, I guarantee they don't give a shit. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 10 child comments replies: [–] pascal@lemm.ee 11 points 3 years ago (2 children) I have sympathy for underpaid workers. But I don't think I'll change my tipping attitude just because you said such and such. Actually your commands sound a bit condescending. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 4 child comments replies: [–] agamemnonymous@sh.itjust.works 7 points 3 years ago* (last edited 3 years ago) (1 child) I wanted to highlight Instead of eating out and not tipping, don’t eat out. The restaurant gets the same amount of money whether you tip or not, I guarantee they don’t give a shit. This isn't a "just said", it's a fact. Not tipping isn't a protest, it's a self-imposed discount at the expense of the worker. The business owner makes exactly the same money, the only one who suffers is the underpaid worker. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [+] nearhat@lemmy.world 11 points 3 years ago (1 child) [deleted] permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] agamemnonymous@sh.itjust.works 5 points 3 years ago (1 child) Did you not read what I said? The restaurant owner is equally enriched whether or not you tip. Tipping is factored into the menu price; if tipping was not expected, the menu price would be higher to cover appropriate wages. If you disagree with the system, limit your patronage to establishments that don't utilize tipping and pay appropriate wages. By not tipping, you are exploiting the system at the expense of the worker; I repeat, the restaurant owner is equally enriched, only the worker suffers when you exploit the expectation of a tip to provide yourself a price lower than would be available if the system was not predicted on tipping. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [+] nearhat@lemmy.world -4 points 3 years ago (1 child) [deleted] permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] agamemnonymous@sh.itjust.works 7 points 3 years ago (1 child) If by "enjoyment" you mean having someone wait on you at a restaurant, I'm not shaming people for having enjoyment, just for taking it without paying. Same way I'd shame them for any other form of enjoyment at the expense of others. There are restaurants that explicitly inform their customers that they pay their staff a higher wage and tipping is not expected. If you don't want to tip and still want your enjoyment, eat at those establishments shame-free. If you disagree with tipping culture and want to incentivize business owners to pay their workers a thriving wage for their hard work, then stop spending money on establishments that utilize tipping, encourage your friends to do the same, and write the business owners to tell them why. Another shame-free option. If you go to an establishment where tipping is expected (and menu prices are therefore lower) but choose not to tip, then: The business owner benefits by making the same money they would have if you had tipped, no incentive to change You benefit from a lower price The server works just as hard, but now does not get honesty compensation. This does not incentive the owner to raise wages. You are exploiting the expectation of a tip that set the low menu prices. If you honestly wanted the server to make a thriving wage, your options are to pay that wage yourself or go to an establishment that does (and consequentially has higher prices to cover this higher wage). Yes, you should be shamed. There's no excuse for enjoyment via exploitating others. Candy being enjoyable doesn't entitle you to steal it if you can't afford it. Not agreeing with "candy pricing" culture doesn't excuse it. I don't care if your doctor or your barber or your banker gives you candy for free, that doesn't entitle you to take it for free from the store. Taking something without paying is theft. Labor is no different. If you can't afford it, go to a restaurant that doesn't use it. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [+] nearhat@lemmy.world -6 points 3 years ago* (last edited 3 years ago) (2 children) [deleted] permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 4 child comments replies: [–] agamemnonymous@sh.itjust.works 4 points 3 years ago (1 child) You're right, your contract is with the business. If you don't want a separate transaction for your server, then just be honest about it. I do assume you are being honest, and telling your server at the beginning of the meal that you don't tip, right? Surely you're not waiting until after they've given you the customary service to withhold the customary payment, right? That would certainly be shameful indeed, and undercut your desire for them to receive thriving pay for honest work. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [+] nearhat@lemmy.world -2 points 3 years ago (1 child) [deleted] permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] agamemnonymous@sh.itjust.works 2 points 3 years ago* (1 child) Then there's no harm in revealing that fact ahead of time. Just let them know not to expect a tip and enjoy your meal shame-free. I can tell you, as I'm sure you know, that tipping is expected, even if it isn't legally enforced. If you truly believe in honest pay for honest work, then be honest about the fact that you will not be subsidizing their pay and relieve them of that conventional expectation. If you're being honest with yourself, you should have no problem with that, right? permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [+] nearhat@lemmy.world 1 point 3 years ago (1 child) [deleted] permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] agamemnonymous@sh.itjust.works 1 point 3 years ago* (1 child) instead of simply not participating in it That's exactly what I said, though: if you don't want to tip, don't go to a table service restaurant. There are plenty of restaurants where tipping is not expected, feel free to go there and not give a shit. Most restaurants offer take out now too, so you can still eat your favorite meals. You are contorting yourself to justify the discount you give yourself at the expense of the person waiting on you. You are taking advantage of the fact that tipping happens after service, and that it's not legally enforced, to lavish in the benefits of a personal slave without paying them for the pleasure. You know very well that tips are expected, and know very well that the quality of the service you receive reflects that fact, and know very well that if you were honest up front about your beliefs on the practice, that the service you received would not be up to the quality you feel entitled to. Rather than upon the unpleasant implications thereof, or accept service in line with the compensation you provide (instead of the "personal slave" you've become so accustomed to), you've decided to remain entitled. You know very well that you're exploiting some poor worker via unspoken convention, and yes you should be very, very ashamed. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [+] nearhat@lemmy.world 0 points 3 years ago (1 child) [deleted] permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] agamemnonymous@sh.itjust.works 0 points 3 years ago* Non-table service tipping is optional. Toss your change in or throw a couple bucks if you're feeling generous. Those workers aren't considered tipped, legally speaking, and they don't make less than minimum wage. That's a pitiful equivocation. Tell your server when you sit down that you don't tip, or accept that you're a shameful, entitled little bilker. Stop your bloviating about "it's the business owner's responsibility!" and admit that you just a want a little slice of the exploitation for your own wallet. permalink fedilink source parent [–] MrShankles@reddthat.com 0 points 3 years ago Seems like you're being deliberately dense, simply to maintain your held opinion. The restaurant owner SHOULD be responsible for employee wages, but they're not... hence the entire issue with the US tipping system. And no amount of mental gymnastics will change the fact that you're incentivizing the owners to never change, by holding fast to your opinion permalink fedilink source parent [–] Erisianbelle@lemmy.world -3 points 3 years ago (1 child) "I have sympathy for underpaid workers." ...but they should feed me while I do nothing to help them, instead I'll be here actively enriching the people exploiting their labor. "But I don't think I'll change my tipping attitude just because you said such and such." I'm sure that sounded cool in concept, but basically all this says is that you find the idea of changing your mind due to dialog silly. How sad. "Actually your commands sound a bit condescending" Oh wow, I hope my analysis doesn't come across like that. You might stop tipping - oh, wait... permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] myplacedk@lemmy.world 1 point 3 years ago All good points. But since tipping is supporting this broken system, and not tipping seems to be worse, what do you suggest then? I could just not go out, sure. Just stay out of it. If enough people do that, this wil lead to less customers, more employers closing their business, more employers loosing the job they couldn't afford to quit. I don't see how that helps either. So I'm listening. What do you suggest? permalink fedilink source parent [–] samus12345@lemmy.world 4 points 3 years ago* (1 child) If you can't afford to live without tips, don't volunteer to become a potential victim of a terrible system. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] iiVy@lemmy.blahaj.zone 0 points 3 years ago (1 child) If it wasn't so depressing I might find it funny you think people work in bad environments because they want to. Minimum wage is not a livable wage, I shouldn't have to tell you this. Your arrogance is genuinely disgusting. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] samus12345@lemmy.world 4 points 3 years ago* (1 child) And I find the arrogance of telling people if they can't afford to tip, they shouldn't eat out disgusting. If they can afford it and are just being cheap, that's one thing, but you don't get to act all morally superior while being arrogant the other direction. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] SeeJayEmm@lemmy.procrastinati.org 0 points 3 years ago (1 child) If you can't afford something you shouldn't buy it. Just because you don't agree with the system doesn't mean you get to ignore it and then justify it by taking a moral high ground. You know the servers wages are dependent on tips and you choose not to pay them. THAT is the social contract. Whether you agree with it or not. If you cared about changing the system you'd take steps to change it without screwing the workers. You're just being cheap. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] samus12345@lemmy.world 1 point 3 years ago* (1 child) I tip. But there's a difference between "I know the system is terrible, but I rely on tips and would really appreciate it if you're able" and "Don't go out if you can't afford to tip." The second is arrogant and condescending. Not being an asshole goes both ways. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] SeeJayEmm@lemmy.procrastinati.org 0 points 3 years ago No. It's not. Don't go somewhere you can't afford (including the tip) is not arrogant. permalink fedilink source parent [–] toomanyjoints69@lemmygrad.ml 3 points 3 years ago I really should stop going to places that need me to tip. I need to save up my money after my mistakes ruined my life yet again. Im so tired of never being able to make mistakes without nearly losing everything permalink fedilink source parent [–] myplacedk@lemmy.world 1 point 3 years ago* I see what you mean, but I'm not the one fucking over the employees. On the short term you are right, but as long as customers keeps tipping, the system works well enough for nothing to change. The more people stops tipping, the closer we get to change. And I'm sorry that the change will hurt the employees, but it's not my battle. And tipping does not support the employees battle, just this days income. Tell me another way I can support their battle, and I'll listen. (I tip when the employees seems to rely on it, or if I feel extraordinarily well serviced.) permalink fedilink source parent [–] HawlSera@lemm.ee -5 points 3 years ago (2 children) Right, lemme just go on a hunger strike to should stop the most predatory Capitalists in existence /s permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 4 child comments replies: [–] SeeJayEmm@lemmy.procrastinati.org 0 points 3 years ago Are you incapable of feeding yourself? permalink fedilink source parent [–] agamemnonymous@sh.itjust.works 0 points 3 years ago You do know there are many places to get food without table service, right? permalink fedilink source parent [+] FlashMobOfOne@lemmy.world -34 points 3 years ago (2 children) That's actually inaccurate. You can be charged for theft of service for refusing to tip someone. It's happened. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 4 child comments replies: [+] nearhat@lemmy.world 23 points 3 years ago (1 child) [deleted] permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [+] FlashMobOfOne@lemmy.world -21 points 3 years ago (2 children) And you would be, again, factually incorrect. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 4 child comments replies: [+] nearhat@lemmy.world 16 points 3 years ago (1 child) [deleted] permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] samus12345@lemmy.world 7 points 3 years ago Narrator: They did not have a source. permalink fedilink source parent [–] ArchmageAzor@lemmy.world 3 points 3 years ago Go ahead then, back it up. Share an article or something about it. Hell, share three of the same event. permalink fedilink source parent [–] samus12345@lemmy.world 9 points 3 years ago Then it's not a tip, it's wages the customer is expected to pay. permalink fedilink source parent
[–] lingh0e@lemmy.world 14 points 3 years ago You're not wrong, but anyone who leaves shit like this or the stupid church dollars as a tip is a special kind of asshole. permalink fedilink source parent
[–] ruination@discuss.tchncs.de 6 points 3 years ago (2 children) Who the fuck is downvoting this? permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 4 child comments replies: [–] Diprount_Tomato@lemmy.world 4 points 3 years ago (1 child) 14 people permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] ruination@discuss.tchncs.de 4 points 3 years ago (1 child) You're not wrong. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] samus12345@lemmy.world 2 points 3 years ago (1 child) But they also didn't answer the question. They said how many, not who. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] Kinyutaka@lemmy.world 4 points 3 years ago Restaurant owners permalink fedilink source parent [–] BraBraBra@lemmy.world 2 points 3 years ago Servers making bank. permalink fedilink source parent
[–] Diprount_Tomato@lemmy.world 4 points 3 years ago (1 child) 14 people permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] ruination@discuss.tchncs.de 4 points 3 years ago (1 child) You're not wrong. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] samus12345@lemmy.world 2 points 3 years ago (1 child) But they also didn't answer the question. They said how many, not who. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] Kinyutaka@lemmy.world 4 points 3 years ago Restaurant owners permalink fedilink source parent
[–] ruination@discuss.tchncs.de 4 points 3 years ago (1 child) You're not wrong. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] samus12345@lemmy.world 2 points 3 years ago (1 child) But they also didn't answer the question. They said how many, not who. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] Kinyutaka@lemmy.world 4 points 3 years ago Restaurant owners permalink fedilink source parent
[–] samus12345@lemmy.world 2 points 3 years ago (1 child) But they also didn't answer the question. They said how many, not who. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] Kinyutaka@lemmy.world 4 points 3 years ago Restaurant owners permalink fedilink source parent
[+] iiVy@lemmy.blahaj.zone -31 points 3 years ago (5 children) If you can't afford to tip, you can't afford to eat out or order delivery. Just because the tip system is a terrible system doesn't mean you have an excuse to fuck over the victims of it. Until there's a national strike on tipping that could lead thousands of tip reliant workers to quit (like the writers strike), be a decent person and have some sympathy. Instead of eating out and not tipping, don't eat out. The restaurant gets the same amount of money whether you tip or not, I guarantee they don't give a shit. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 10 child comments replies: [–] pascal@lemm.ee 11 points 3 years ago (2 children) I have sympathy for underpaid workers. But I don't think I'll change my tipping attitude just because you said such and such. Actually your commands sound a bit condescending. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 4 child comments replies: [–] agamemnonymous@sh.itjust.works 7 points 3 years ago* (last edited 3 years ago) (1 child) I wanted to highlight Instead of eating out and not tipping, don’t eat out. The restaurant gets the same amount of money whether you tip or not, I guarantee they don’t give a shit. This isn't a "just said", it's a fact. Not tipping isn't a protest, it's a self-imposed discount at the expense of the worker. The business owner makes exactly the same money, the only one who suffers is the underpaid worker. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [+] nearhat@lemmy.world 11 points 3 years ago (1 child) [deleted] permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] agamemnonymous@sh.itjust.works 5 points 3 years ago (1 child) Did you not read what I said? The restaurant owner is equally enriched whether or not you tip. Tipping is factored into the menu price; if tipping was not expected, the menu price would be higher to cover appropriate wages. If you disagree with the system, limit your patronage to establishments that don't utilize tipping and pay appropriate wages. By not tipping, you are exploiting the system at the expense of the worker; I repeat, the restaurant owner is equally enriched, only the worker suffers when you exploit the expectation of a tip to provide yourself a price lower than would be available if the system was not predicted on tipping. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [+] nearhat@lemmy.world -4 points 3 years ago (1 child) [deleted] permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] agamemnonymous@sh.itjust.works 7 points 3 years ago (1 child) If by "enjoyment" you mean having someone wait on you at a restaurant, I'm not shaming people for having enjoyment, just for taking it without paying. Same way I'd shame them for any other form of enjoyment at the expense of others. There are restaurants that explicitly inform their customers that they pay their staff a higher wage and tipping is not expected. If you don't want to tip and still want your enjoyment, eat at those establishments shame-free. If you disagree with tipping culture and want to incentivize business owners to pay their workers a thriving wage for their hard work, then stop spending money on establishments that utilize tipping, encourage your friends to do the same, and write the business owners to tell them why. Another shame-free option. If you go to an establishment where tipping is expected (and menu prices are therefore lower) but choose not to tip, then: The business owner benefits by making the same money they would have if you had tipped, no incentive to change You benefit from a lower price The server works just as hard, but now does not get honesty compensation. This does not incentive the owner to raise wages. You are exploiting the expectation of a tip that set the low menu prices. If you honestly wanted the server to make a thriving wage, your options are to pay that wage yourself or go to an establishment that does (and consequentially has higher prices to cover this higher wage). Yes, you should be shamed. There's no excuse for enjoyment via exploitating others. Candy being enjoyable doesn't entitle you to steal it if you can't afford it. Not agreeing with "candy pricing" culture doesn't excuse it. I don't care if your doctor or your barber or your banker gives you candy for free, that doesn't entitle you to take it for free from the store. Taking something without paying is theft. Labor is no different. If you can't afford it, go to a restaurant that doesn't use it. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [+] nearhat@lemmy.world -6 points 3 years ago* (last edited 3 years ago) (2 children) [deleted] permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 4 child comments replies: [–] agamemnonymous@sh.itjust.works 4 points 3 years ago (1 child) You're right, your contract is with the business. If you don't want a separate transaction for your server, then just be honest about it. I do assume you are being honest, and telling your server at the beginning of the meal that you don't tip, right? Surely you're not waiting until after they've given you the customary service to withhold the customary payment, right? That would certainly be shameful indeed, and undercut your desire for them to receive thriving pay for honest work. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [+] nearhat@lemmy.world -2 points 3 years ago (1 child) [deleted] permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] agamemnonymous@sh.itjust.works 2 points 3 years ago* (1 child) Then there's no harm in revealing that fact ahead of time. Just let them know not to expect a tip and enjoy your meal shame-free. I can tell you, as I'm sure you know, that tipping is expected, even if it isn't legally enforced. If you truly believe in honest pay for honest work, then be honest about the fact that you will not be subsidizing their pay and relieve them of that conventional expectation. If you're being honest with yourself, you should have no problem with that, right? permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [+] nearhat@lemmy.world 1 point 3 years ago (1 child) [deleted] permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] agamemnonymous@sh.itjust.works 1 point 3 years ago* (1 child) instead of simply not participating in it That's exactly what I said, though: if you don't want to tip, don't go to a table service restaurant. There are plenty of restaurants where tipping is not expected, feel free to go there and not give a shit. Most restaurants offer take out now too, so you can still eat your favorite meals. You are contorting yourself to justify the discount you give yourself at the expense of the person waiting on you. You are taking advantage of the fact that tipping happens after service, and that it's not legally enforced, to lavish in the benefits of a personal slave without paying them for the pleasure. You know very well that tips are expected, and know very well that the quality of the service you receive reflects that fact, and know very well that if you were honest up front about your beliefs on the practice, that the service you received would not be up to the quality you feel entitled to. Rather than upon the unpleasant implications thereof, or accept service in line with the compensation you provide (instead of the "personal slave" you've become so accustomed to), you've decided to remain entitled. You know very well that you're exploiting some poor worker via unspoken convention, and yes you should be very, very ashamed. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [+] nearhat@lemmy.world 0 points 3 years ago (1 child) [deleted] permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] agamemnonymous@sh.itjust.works 0 points 3 years ago* Non-table service tipping is optional. Toss your change in or throw a couple bucks if you're feeling generous. Those workers aren't considered tipped, legally speaking, and they don't make less than minimum wage. That's a pitiful equivocation. Tell your server when you sit down that you don't tip, or accept that you're a shameful, entitled little bilker. Stop your bloviating about "it's the business owner's responsibility!" and admit that you just a want a little slice of the exploitation for your own wallet. permalink fedilink source parent [–] MrShankles@reddthat.com 0 points 3 years ago Seems like you're being deliberately dense, simply to maintain your held opinion. The restaurant owner SHOULD be responsible for employee wages, but they're not... hence the entire issue with the US tipping system. And no amount of mental gymnastics will change the fact that you're incentivizing the owners to never change, by holding fast to your opinion permalink fedilink source parent [–] Erisianbelle@lemmy.world -3 points 3 years ago (1 child) "I have sympathy for underpaid workers." ...but they should feed me while I do nothing to help them, instead I'll be here actively enriching the people exploiting their labor. "But I don't think I'll change my tipping attitude just because you said such and such." I'm sure that sounded cool in concept, but basically all this says is that you find the idea of changing your mind due to dialog silly. How sad. "Actually your commands sound a bit condescending" Oh wow, I hope my analysis doesn't come across like that. You might stop tipping - oh, wait... permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] myplacedk@lemmy.world 1 point 3 years ago All good points. But since tipping is supporting this broken system, and not tipping seems to be worse, what do you suggest then? I could just not go out, sure. Just stay out of it. If enough people do that, this wil lead to less customers, more employers closing their business, more employers loosing the job they couldn't afford to quit. I don't see how that helps either. So I'm listening. What do you suggest? permalink fedilink source parent [–] samus12345@lemmy.world 4 points 3 years ago* (1 child) If you can't afford to live without tips, don't volunteer to become a potential victim of a terrible system. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] iiVy@lemmy.blahaj.zone 0 points 3 years ago (1 child) If it wasn't so depressing I might find it funny you think people work in bad environments because they want to. Minimum wage is not a livable wage, I shouldn't have to tell you this. Your arrogance is genuinely disgusting. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] samus12345@lemmy.world 4 points 3 years ago* (1 child) And I find the arrogance of telling people if they can't afford to tip, they shouldn't eat out disgusting. If they can afford it and are just being cheap, that's one thing, but you don't get to act all morally superior while being arrogant the other direction. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] SeeJayEmm@lemmy.procrastinati.org 0 points 3 years ago (1 child) If you can't afford something you shouldn't buy it. Just because you don't agree with the system doesn't mean you get to ignore it and then justify it by taking a moral high ground. You know the servers wages are dependent on tips and you choose not to pay them. THAT is the social contract. Whether you agree with it or not. If you cared about changing the system you'd take steps to change it without screwing the workers. You're just being cheap. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] samus12345@lemmy.world 1 point 3 years ago* (1 child) I tip. But there's a difference between "I know the system is terrible, but I rely on tips and would really appreciate it if you're able" and "Don't go out if you can't afford to tip." The second is arrogant and condescending. Not being an asshole goes both ways. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] SeeJayEmm@lemmy.procrastinati.org 0 points 3 years ago No. It's not. Don't go somewhere you can't afford (including the tip) is not arrogant. permalink fedilink source parent [–] toomanyjoints69@lemmygrad.ml 3 points 3 years ago I really should stop going to places that need me to tip. I need to save up my money after my mistakes ruined my life yet again. Im so tired of never being able to make mistakes without nearly losing everything permalink fedilink source parent [–] myplacedk@lemmy.world 1 point 3 years ago* I see what you mean, but I'm not the one fucking over the employees. On the short term you are right, but as long as customers keeps tipping, the system works well enough for nothing to change. The more people stops tipping, the closer we get to change. And I'm sorry that the change will hurt the employees, but it's not my battle. And tipping does not support the employees battle, just this days income. Tell me another way I can support their battle, and I'll listen. (I tip when the employees seems to rely on it, or if I feel extraordinarily well serviced.) permalink fedilink source parent [–] HawlSera@lemm.ee -5 points 3 years ago (2 children) Right, lemme just go on a hunger strike to should stop the most predatory Capitalists in existence /s permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 4 child comments replies: [–] SeeJayEmm@lemmy.procrastinati.org 0 points 3 years ago Are you incapable of feeding yourself? permalink fedilink source parent [–] agamemnonymous@sh.itjust.works 0 points 3 years ago You do know there are many places to get food without table service, right? permalink fedilink source parent
[–] pascal@lemm.ee 11 points 3 years ago (2 children) I have sympathy for underpaid workers. But I don't think I'll change my tipping attitude just because you said such and such. Actually your commands sound a bit condescending. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 4 child comments replies: [–] agamemnonymous@sh.itjust.works 7 points 3 years ago* (last edited 3 years ago) (1 child) I wanted to highlight Instead of eating out and not tipping, don’t eat out. The restaurant gets the same amount of money whether you tip or not, I guarantee they don’t give a shit. This isn't a "just said", it's a fact. Not tipping isn't a protest, it's a self-imposed discount at the expense of the worker. The business owner makes exactly the same money, the only one who suffers is the underpaid worker. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [+] nearhat@lemmy.world 11 points 3 years ago (1 child) [deleted] permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] agamemnonymous@sh.itjust.works 5 points 3 years ago (1 child) Did you not read what I said? The restaurant owner is equally enriched whether or not you tip. Tipping is factored into the menu price; if tipping was not expected, the menu price would be higher to cover appropriate wages. If you disagree with the system, limit your patronage to establishments that don't utilize tipping and pay appropriate wages. By not tipping, you are exploiting the system at the expense of the worker; I repeat, the restaurant owner is equally enriched, only the worker suffers when you exploit the expectation of a tip to provide yourself a price lower than would be available if the system was not predicted on tipping. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [+] nearhat@lemmy.world -4 points 3 years ago (1 child) [deleted] permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] agamemnonymous@sh.itjust.works 7 points 3 years ago (1 child) If by "enjoyment" you mean having someone wait on you at a restaurant, I'm not shaming people for having enjoyment, just for taking it without paying. Same way I'd shame them for any other form of enjoyment at the expense of others. There are restaurants that explicitly inform their customers that they pay their staff a higher wage and tipping is not expected. If you don't want to tip and still want your enjoyment, eat at those establishments shame-free. If you disagree with tipping culture and want to incentivize business owners to pay their workers a thriving wage for their hard work, then stop spending money on establishments that utilize tipping, encourage your friends to do the same, and write the business owners to tell them why. Another shame-free option. If you go to an establishment where tipping is expected (and menu prices are therefore lower) but choose not to tip, then: The business owner benefits by making the same money they would have if you had tipped, no incentive to change You benefit from a lower price The server works just as hard, but now does not get honesty compensation. This does not incentive the owner to raise wages. You are exploiting the expectation of a tip that set the low menu prices. If you honestly wanted the server to make a thriving wage, your options are to pay that wage yourself or go to an establishment that does (and consequentially has higher prices to cover this higher wage). Yes, you should be shamed. There's no excuse for enjoyment via exploitating others. Candy being enjoyable doesn't entitle you to steal it if you can't afford it. Not agreeing with "candy pricing" culture doesn't excuse it. I don't care if your doctor or your barber or your banker gives you candy for free, that doesn't entitle you to take it for free from the store. Taking something without paying is theft. Labor is no different. If you can't afford it, go to a restaurant that doesn't use it. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [+] nearhat@lemmy.world -6 points 3 years ago* (last edited 3 years ago) (2 children) [deleted] permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 4 child comments replies: [–] agamemnonymous@sh.itjust.works 4 points 3 years ago (1 child) You're right, your contract is with the business. If you don't want a separate transaction for your server, then just be honest about it. I do assume you are being honest, and telling your server at the beginning of the meal that you don't tip, right? Surely you're not waiting until after they've given you the customary service to withhold the customary payment, right? That would certainly be shameful indeed, and undercut your desire for them to receive thriving pay for honest work. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [+] nearhat@lemmy.world -2 points 3 years ago (1 child) [deleted] permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] agamemnonymous@sh.itjust.works 2 points 3 years ago* (1 child) Then there's no harm in revealing that fact ahead of time. Just let them know not to expect a tip and enjoy your meal shame-free. I can tell you, as I'm sure you know, that tipping is expected, even if it isn't legally enforced. If you truly believe in honest pay for honest work, then be honest about the fact that you will not be subsidizing their pay and relieve them of that conventional expectation. If you're being honest with yourself, you should have no problem with that, right? permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [+] nearhat@lemmy.world 1 point 3 years ago (1 child) [deleted] permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] agamemnonymous@sh.itjust.works 1 point 3 years ago* (1 child) instead of simply not participating in it That's exactly what I said, though: if you don't want to tip, don't go to a table service restaurant. There are plenty of restaurants where tipping is not expected, feel free to go there and not give a shit. Most restaurants offer take out now too, so you can still eat your favorite meals. You are contorting yourself to justify the discount you give yourself at the expense of the person waiting on you. You are taking advantage of the fact that tipping happens after service, and that it's not legally enforced, to lavish in the benefits of a personal slave without paying them for the pleasure. You know very well that tips are expected, and know very well that the quality of the service you receive reflects that fact, and know very well that if you were honest up front about your beliefs on the practice, that the service you received would not be up to the quality you feel entitled to. Rather than upon the unpleasant implications thereof, or accept service in line with the compensation you provide (instead of the "personal slave" you've become so accustomed to), you've decided to remain entitled. You know very well that you're exploiting some poor worker via unspoken convention, and yes you should be very, very ashamed. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [+] nearhat@lemmy.world 0 points 3 years ago (1 child) [deleted] permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] agamemnonymous@sh.itjust.works 0 points 3 years ago* Non-table service tipping is optional. Toss your change in or throw a couple bucks if you're feeling generous. Those workers aren't considered tipped, legally speaking, and they don't make less than minimum wage. That's a pitiful equivocation. Tell your server when you sit down that you don't tip, or accept that you're a shameful, entitled little bilker. Stop your bloviating about "it's the business owner's responsibility!" and admit that you just a want a little slice of the exploitation for your own wallet. permalink fedilink source parent [–] MrShankles@reddthat.com 0 points 3 years ago Seems like you're being deliberately dense, simply to maintain your held opinion. The restaurant owner SHOULD be responsible for employee wages, but they're not... hence the entire issue with the US tipping system. And no amount of mental gymnastics will change the fact that you're incentivizing the owners to never change, by holding fast to your opinion permalink fedilink source parent [–] Erisianbelle@lemmy.world -3 points 3 years ago (1 child) "I have sympathy for underpaid workers." ...but they should feed me while I do nothing to help them, instead I'll be here actively enriching the people exploiting their labor. "But I don't think I'll change my tipping attitude just because you said such and such." I'm sure that sounded cool in concept, but basically all this says is that you find the idea of changing your mind due to dialog silly. How sad. "Actually your commands sound a bit condescending" Oh wow, I hope my analysis doesn't come across like that. You might stop tipping - oh, wait... permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] myplacedk@lemmy.world 1 point 3 years ago All good points. But since tipping is supporting this broken system, and not tipping seems to be worse, what do you suggest then? I could just not go out, sure. Just stay out of it. If enough people do that, this wil lead to less customers, more employers closing their business, more employers loosing the job they couldn't afford to quit. I don't see how that helps either. So I'm listening. What do you suggest? permalink fedilink source parent
[–] agamemnonymous@sh.itjust.works 7 points 3 years ago* (last edited 3 years ago) (1 child) I wanted to highlight Instead of eating out and not tipping, don’t eat out. The restaurant gets the same amount of money whether you tip or not, I guarantee they don’t give a shit. This isn't a "just said", it's a fact. Not tipping isn't a protest, it's a self-imposed discount at the expense of the worker. The business owner makes exactly the same money, the only one who suffers is the underpaid worker. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [+] nearhat@lemmy.world 11 points 3 years ago (1 child) [deleted] permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] agamemnonymous@sh.itjust.works 5 points 3 years ago (1 child) Did you not read what I said? The restaurant owner is equally enriched whether or not you tip. Tipping is factored into the menu price; if tipping was not expected, the menu price would be higher to cover appropriate wages. If you disagree with the system, limit your patronage to establishments that don't utilize tipping and pay appropriate wages. By not tipping, you are exploiting the system at the expense of the worker; I repeat, the restaurant owner is equally enriched, only the worker suffers when you exploit the expectation of a tip to provide yourself a price lower than would be available if the system was not predicted on tipping. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [+] nearhat@lemmy.world -4 points 3 years ago (1 child) [deleted] permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] agamemnonymous@sh.itjust.works 7 points 3 years ago (1 child) If by "enjoyment" you mean having someone wait on you at a restaurant, I'm not shaming people for having enjoyment, just for taking it without paying. Same way I'd shame them for any other form of enjoyment at the expense of others. There are restaurants that explicitly inform their customers that they pay their staff a higher wage and tipping is not expected. If you don't want to tip and still want your enjoyment, eat at those establishments shame-free. If you disagree with tipping culture and want to incentivize business owners to pay their workers a thriving wage for their hard work, then stop spending money on establishments that utilize tipping, encourage your friends to do the same, and write the business owners to tell them why. Another shame-free option. If you go to an establishment where tipping is expected (and menu prices are therefore lower) but choose not to tip, then: The business owner benefits by making the same money they would have if you had tipped, no incentive to change You benefit from a lower price The server works just as hard, but now does not get honesty compensation. This does not incentive the owner to raise wages. You are exploiting the expectation of a tip that set the low menu prices. If you honestly wanted the server to make a thriving wage, your options are to pay that wage yourself or go to an establishment that does (and consequentially has higher prices to cover this higher wage). Yes, you should be shamed. There's no excuse for enjoyment via exploitating others. Candy being enjoyable doesn't entitle you to steal it if you can't afford it. Not agreeing with "candy pricing" culture doesn't excuse it. I don't care if your doctor or your barber or your banker gives you candy for free, that doesn't entitle you to take it for free from the store. Taking something without paying is theft. Labor is no different. If you can't afford it, go to a restaurant that doesn't use it. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [+] nearhat@lemmy.world -6 points 3 years ago* (last edited 3 years ago) (2 children) [deleted] permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 4 child comments replies: [–] agamemnonymous@sh.itjust.works 4 points 3 years ago (1 child) You're right, your contract is with the business. If you don't want a separate transaction for your server, then just be honest about it. I do assume you are being honest, and telling your server at the beginning of the meal that you don't tip, right? Surely you're not waiting until after they've given you the customary service to withhold the customary payment, right? That would certainly be shameful indeed, and undercut your desire for them to receive thriving pay for honest work. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [+] nearhat@lemmy.world -2 points 3 years ago (1 child) [deleted] permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] agamemnonymous@sh.itjust.works 2 points 3 years ago* (1 child) Then there's no harm in revealing that fact ahead of time. Just let them know not to expect a tip and enjoy your meal shame-free. I can tell you, as I'm sure you know, that tipping is expected, even if it isn't legally enforced. If you truly believe in honest pay for honest work, then be honest about the fact that you will not be subsidizing their pay and relieve them of that conventional expectation. If you're being honest with yourself, you should have no problem with that, right? permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [+] nearhat@lemmy.world 1 point 3 years ago (1 child) [deleted] permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] agamemnonymous@sh.itjust.works 1 point 3 years ago* (1 child) instead of simply not participating in it That's exactly what I said, though: if you don't want to tip, don't go to a table service restaurant. There are plenty of restaurants where tipping is not expected, feel free to go there and not give a shit. Most restaurants offer take out now too, so you can still eat your favorite meals. You are contorting yourself to justify the discount you give yourself at the expense of the person waiting on you. You are taking advantage of the fact that tipping happens after service, and that it's not legally enforced, to lavish in the benefits of a personal slave without paying them for the pleasure. You know very well that tips are expected, and know very well that the quality of the service you receive reflects that fact, and know very well that if you were honest up front about your beliefs on the practice, that the service you received would not be up to the quality you feel entitled to. Rather than upon the unpleasant implications thereof, or accept service in line with the compensation you provide (instead of the "personal slave" you've become so accustomed to), you've decided to remain entitled. You know very well that you're exploiting some poor worker via unspoken convention, and yes you should be very, very ashamed. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [+] nearhat@lemmy.world 0 points 3 years ago (1 child) [deleted] permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] agamemnonymous@sh.itjust.works 0 points 3 years ago* Non-table service tipping is optional. Toss your change in or throw a couple bucks if you're feeling generous. Those workers aren't considered tipped, legally speaking, and they don't make less than minimum wage. That's a pitiful equivocation. Tell your server when you sit down that you don't tip, or accept that you're a shameful, entitled little bilker. Stop your bloviating about "it's the business owner's responsibility!" and admit that you just a want a little slice of the exploitation for your own wallet. permalink fedilink source parent [–] MrShankles@reddthat.com 0 points 3 years ago Seems like you're being deliberately dense, simply to maintain your held opinion. The restaurant owner SHOULD be responsible for employee wages, but they're not... hence the entire issue with the US tipping system. And no amount of mental gymnastics will change the fact that you're incentivizing the owners to never change, by holding fast to your opinion permalink fedilink source parent
[+] nearhat@lemmy.world 11 points 3 years ago (1 child) [deleted] permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] agamemnonymous@sh.itjust.works 5 points 3 years ago (1 child) Did you not read what I said? The restaurant owner is equally enriched whether or not you tip. Tipping is factored into the menu price; if tipping was not expected, the menu price would be higher to cover appropriate wages. If you disagree with the system, limit your patronage to establishments that don't utilize tipping and pay appropriate wages. By not tipping, you are exploiting the system at the expense of the worker; I repeat, the restaurant owner is equally enriched, only the worker suffers when you exploit the expectation of a tip to provide yourself a price lower than would be available if the system was not predicted on tipping. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [+] nearhat@lemmy.world -4 points 3 years ago (1 child) [deleted] permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] agamemnonymous@sh.itjust.works 7 points 3 years ago (1 child) If by "enjoyment" you mean having someone wait on you at a restaurant, I'm not shaming people for having enjoyment, just for taking it without paying. Same way I'd shame them for any other form of enjoyment at the expense of others. There are restaurants that explicitly inform their customers that they pay their staff a higher wage and tipping is not expected. If you don't want to tip and still want your enjoyment, eat at those establishments shame-free. If you disagree with tipping culture and want to incentivize business owners to pay their workers a thriving wage for their hard work, then stop spending money on establishments that utilize tipping, encourage your friends to do the same, and write the business owners to tell them why. Another shame-free option. If you go to an establishment where tipping is expected (and menu prices are therefore lower) but choose not to tip, then: The business owner benefits by making the same money they would have if you had tipped, no incentive to change You benefit from a lower price The server works just as hard, but now does not get honesty compensation. This does not incentive the owner to raise wages. You are exploiting the expectation of a tip that set the low menu prices. If you honestly wanted the server to make a thriving wage, your options are to pay that wage yourself or go to an establishment that does (and consequentially has higher prices to cover this higher wage). Yes, you should be shamed. There's no excuse for enjoyment via exploitating others. Candy being enjoyable doesn't entitle you to steal it if you can't afford it. Not agreeing with "candy pricing" culture doesn't excuse it. I don't care if your doctor or your barber or your banker gives you candy for free, that doesn't entitle you to take it for free from the store. Taking something without paying is theft. Labor is no different. If you can't afford it, go to a restaurant that doesn't use it. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [+] nearhat@lemmy.world -6 points 3 years ago* (last edited 3 years ago) (2 children) [deleted] permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 4 child comments replies: [–] agamemnonymous@sh.itjust.works 4 points 3 years ago (1 child) You're right, your contract is with the business. If you don't want a separate transaction for your server, then just be honest about it. I do assume you are being honest, and telling your server at the beginning of the meal that you don't tip, right? Surely you're not waiting until after they've given you the customary service to withhold the customary payment, right? That would certainly be shameful indeed, and undercut your desire for them to receive thriving pay for honest work. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [+] nearhat@lemmy.world -2 points 3 years ago (1 child) [deleted] permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] agamemnonymous@sh.itjust.works 2 points 3 years ago* (1 child) Then there's no harm in revealing that fact ahead of time. Just let them know not to expect a tip and enjoy your meal shame-free. I can tell you, as I'm sure you know, that tipping is expected, even if it isn't legally enforced. If you truly believe in honest pay for honest work, then be honest about the fact that you will not be subsidizing their pay and relieve them of that conventional expectation. If you're being honest with yourself, you should have no problem with that, right? permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [+] nearhat@lemmy.world 1 point 3 years ago (1 child) [deleted] permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] agamemnonymous@sh.itjust.works 1 point 3 years ago* (1 child) instead of simply not participating in it That's exactly what I said, though: if you don't want to tip, don't go to a table service restaurant. There are plenty of restaurants where tipping is not expected, feel free to go there and not give a shit. Most restaurants offer take out now too, so you can still eat your favorite meals. You are contorting yourself to justify the discount you give yourself at the expense of the person waiting on you. You are taking advantage of the fact that tipping happens after service, and that it's not legally enforced, to lavish in the benefits of a personal slave without paying them for the pleasure. You know very well that tips are expected, and know very well that the quality of the service you receive reflects that fact, and know very well that if you were honest up front about your beliefs on the practice, that the service you received would not be up to the quality you feel entitled to. Rather than upon the unpleasant implications thereof, or accept service in line with the compensation you provide (instead of the "personal slave" you've become so accustomed to), you've decided to remain entitled. You know very well that you're exploiting some poor worker via unspoken convention, and yes you should be very, very ashamed. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [+] nearhat@lemmy.world 0 points 3 years ago (1 child) [deleted] permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] agamemnonymous@sh.itjust.works 0 points 3 years ago* Non-table service tipping is optional. Toss your change in or throw a couple bucks if you're feeling generous. Those workers aren't considered tipped, legally speaking, and they don't make less than minimum wage. That's a pitiful equivocation. Tell your server when you sit down that you don't tip, or accept that you're a shameful, entitled little bilker. Stop your bloviating about "it's the business owner's responsibility!" and admit that you just a want a little slice of the exploitation for your own wallet. permalink fedilink source parent [–] MrShankles@reddthat.com 0 points 3 years ago Seems like you're being deliberately dense, simply to maintain your held opinion. The restaurant owner SHOULD be responsible for employee wages, but they're not... hence the entire issue with the US tipping system. And no amount of mental gymnastics will change the fact that you're incentivizing the owners to never change, by holding fast to your opinion permalink fedilink source parent
[–] agamemnonymous@sh.itjust.works 5 points 3 years ago (1 child) Did you not read what I said? The restaurant owner is equally enriched whether or not you tip. Tipping is factored into the menu price; if tipping was not expected, the menu price would be higher to cover appropriate wages. If you disagree with the system, limit your patronage to establishments that don't utilize tipping and pay appropriate wages. By not tipping, you are exploiting the system at the expense of the worker; I repeat, the restaurant owner is equally enriched, only the worker suffers when you exploit the expectation of a tip to provide yourself a price lower than would be available if the system was not predicted on tipping. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [+] nearhat@lemmy.world -4 points 3 years ago (1 child) [deleted] permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] agamemnonymous@sh.itjust.works 7 points 3 years ago (1 child) If by "enjoyment" you mean having someone wait on you at a restaurant, I'm not shaming people for having enjoyment, just for taking it without paying. Same way I'd shame them for any other form of enjoyment at the expense of others. There are restaurants that explicitly inform their customers that they pay their staff a higher wage and tipping is not expected. If you don't want to tip and still want your enjoyment, eat at those establishments shame-free. If you disagree with tipping culture and want to incentivize business owners to pay their workers a thriving wage for their hard work, then stop spending money on establishments that utilize tipping, encourage your friends to do the same, and write the business owners to tell them why. Another shame-free option. If you go to an establishment where tipping is expected (and menu prices are therefore lower) but choose not to tip, then: The business owner benefits by making the same money they would have if you had tipped, no incentive to change You benefit from a lower price The server works just as hard, but now does not get honesty compensation. This does not incentive the owner to raise wages. You are exploiting the expectation of a tip that set the low menu prices. If you honestly wanted the server to make a thriving wage, your options are to pay that wage yourself or go to an establishment that does (and consequentially has higher prices to cover this higher wage). Yes, you should be shamed. There's no excuse for enjoyment via exploitating others. Candy being enjoyable doesn't entitle you to steal it if you can't afford it. Not agreeing with "candy pricing" culture doesn't excuse it. I don't care if your doctor or your barber or your banker gives you candy for free, that doesn't entitle you to take it for free from the store. Taking something without paying is theft. Labor is no different. If you can't afford it, go to a restaurant that doesn't use it. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [+] nearhat@lemmy.world -6 points 3 years ago* (last edited 3 years ago) (2 children) [deleted] permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 4 child comments replies: [–] agamemnonymous@sh.itjust.works 4 points 3 years ago (1 child) You're right, your contract is with the business. If you don't want a separate transaction for your server, then just be honest about it. I do assume you are being honest, and telling your server at the beginning of the meal that you don't tip, right? Surely you're not waiting until after they've given you the customary service to withhold the customary payment, right? That would certainly be shameful indeed, and undercut your desire for them to receive thriving pay for honest work. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [+] nearhat@lemmy.world -2 points 3 years ago (1 child) [deleted] permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] agamemnonymous@sh.itjust.works 2 points 3 years ago* (1 child) Then there's no harm in revealing that fact ahead of time. Just let them know not to expect a tip and enjoy your meal shame-free. I can tell you, as I'm sure you know, that tipping is expected, even if it isn't legally enforced. If you truly believe in honest pay for honest work, then be honest about the fact that you will not be subsidizing their pay and relieve them of that conventional expectation. If you're being honest with yourself, you should have no problem with that, right? permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [+] nearhat@lemmy.world 1 point 3 years ago (1 child) [deleted] permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] agamemnonymous@sh.itjust.works 1 point 3 years ago* (1 child) instead of simply not participating in it That's exactly what I said, though: if you don't want to tip, don't go to a table service restaurant. There are plenty of restaurants where tipping is not expected, feel free to go there and not give a shit. Most restaurants offer take out now too, so you can still eat your favorite meals. You are contorting yourself to justify the discount you give yourself at the expense of the person waiting on you. You are taking advantage of the fact that tipping happens after service, and that it's not legally enforced, to lavish in the benefits of a personal slave without paying them for the pleasure. You know very well that tips are expected, and know very well that the quality of the service you receive reflects that fact, and know very well that if you were honest up front about your beliefs on the practice, that the service you received would not be up to the quality you feel entitled to. Rather than upon the unpleasant implications thereof, or accept service in line with the compensation you provide (instead of the "personal slave" you've become so accustomed to), you've decided to remain entitled. You know very well that you're exploiting some poor worker via unspoken convention, and yes you should be very, very ashamed. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [+] nearhat@lemmy.world 0 points 3 years ago (1 child) [deleted] permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] agamemnonymous@sh.itjust.works 0 points 3 years ago* Non-table service tipping is optional. Toss your change in or throw a couple bucks if you're feeling generous. Those workers aren't considered tipped, legally speaking, and they don't make less than minimum wage. That's a pitiful equivocation. Tell your server when you sit down that you don't tip, or accept that you're a shameful, entitled little bilker. Stop your bloviating about "it's the business owner's responsibility!" and admit that you just a want a little slice of the exploitation for your own wallet. permalink fedilink source parent [–] MrShankles@reddthat.com 0 points 3 years ago Seems like you're being deliberately dense, simply to maintain your held opinion. The restaurant owner SHOULD be responsible for employee wages, but they're not... hence the entire issue with the US tipping system. And no amount of mental gymnastics will change the fact that you're incentivizing the owners to never change, by holding fast to your opinion permalink fedilink source parent
[+] nearhat@lemmy.world -4 points 3 years ago (1 child) [deleted] permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] agamemnonymous@sh.itjust.works 7 points 3 years ago (1 child) If by "enjoyment" you mean having someone wait on you at a restaurant, I'm not shaming people for having enjoyment, just for taking it without paying. Same way I'd shame them for any other form of enjoyment at the expense of others. There are restaurants that explicitly inform their customers that they pay their staff a higher wage and tipping is not expected. If you don't want to tip and still want your enjoyment, eat at those establishments shame-free. If you disagree with tipping culture and want to incentivize business owners to pay their workers a thriving wage for their hard work, then stop spending money on establishments that utilize tipping, encourage your friends to do the same, and write the business owners to tell them why. Another shame-free option. If you go to an establishment where tipping is expected (and menu prices are therefore lower) but choose not to tip, then: The business owner benefits by making the same money they would have if you had tipped, no incentive to change You benefit from a lower price The server works just as hard, but now does not get honesty compensation. This does not incentive the owner to raise wages. You are exploiting the expectation of a tip that set the low menu prices. If you honestly wanted the server to make a thriving wage, your options are to pay that wage yourself or go to an establishment that does (and consequentially has higher prices to cover this higher wage). Yes, you should be shamed. There's no excuse for enjoyment via exploitating others. Candy being enjoyable doesn't entitle you to steal it if you can't afford it. Not agreeing with "candy pricing" culture doesn't excuse it. I don't care if your doctor or your barber or your banker gives you candy for free, that doesn't entitle you to take it for free from the store. Taking something without paying is theft. Labor is no different. If you can't afford it, go to a restaurant that doesn't use it. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [+] nearhat@lemmy.world -6 points 3 years ago* (last edited 3 years ago) (2 children) [deleted] permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 4 child comments replies: [–] agamemnonymous@sh.itjust.works 4 points 3 years ago (1 child) You're right, your contract is with the business. If you don't want a separate transaction for your server, then just be honest about it. I do assume you are being honest, and telling your server at the beginning of the meal that you don't tip, right? Surely you're not waiting until after they've given you the customary service to withhold the customary payment, right? That would certainly be shameful indeed, and undercut your desire for them to receive thriving pay for honest work. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [+] nearhat@lemmy.world -2 points 3 years ago (1 child) [deleted] permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] agamemnonymous@sh.itjust.works 2 points 3 years ago* (1 child) Then there's no harm in revealing that fact ahead of time. Just let them know not to expect a tip and enjoy your meal shame-free. I can tell you, as I'm sure you know, that tipping is expected, even if it isn't legally enforced. If you truly believe in honest pay for honest work, then be honest about the fact that you will not be subsidizing their pay and relieve them of that conventional expectation. If you're being honest with yourself, you should have no problem with that, right? permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [+] nearhat@lemmy.world 1 point 3 years ago (1 child) [deleted] permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] agamemnonymous@sh.itjust.works 1 point 3 years ago* (1 child) instead of simply not participating in it That's exactly what I said, though: if you don't want to tip, don't go to a table service restaurant. There are plenty of restaurants where tipping is not expected, feel free to go there and not give a shit. Most restaurants offer take out now too, so you can still eat your favorite meals. You are contorting yourself to justify the discount you give yourself at the expense of the person waiting on you. You are taking advantage of the fact that tipping happens after service, and that it's not legally enforced, to lavish in the benefits of a personal slave without paying them for the pleasure. You know very well that tips are expected, and know very well that the quality of the service you receive reflects that fact, and know very well that if you were honest up front about your beliefs on the practice, that the service you received would not be up to the quality you feel entitled to. Rather than upon the unpleasant implications thereof, or accept service in line with the compensation you provide (instead of the "personal slave" you've become so accustomed to), you've decided to remain entitled. You know very well that you're exploiting some poor worker via unspoken convention, and yes you should be very, very ashamed. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [+] nearhat@lemmy.world 0 points 3 years ago (1 child) [deleted] permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] agamemnonymous@sh.itjust.works 0 points 3 years ago* Non-table service tipping is optional. Toss your change in or throw a couple bucks if you're feeling generous. Those workers aren't considered tipped, legally speaking, and they don't make less than minimum wage. That's a pitiful equivocation. Tell your server when you sit down that you don't tip, or accept that you're a shameful, entitled little bilker. Stop your bloviating about "it's the business owner's responsibility!" and admit that you just a want a little slice of the exploitation for your own wallet. permalink fedilink source parent [–] MrShankles@reddthat.com 0 points 3 years ago Seems like you're being deliberately dense, simply to maintain your held opinion. The restaurant owner SHOULD be responsible for employee wages, but they're not... hence the entire issue with the US tipping system. And no amount of mental gymnastics will change the fact that you're incentivizing the owners to never change, by holding fast to your opinion permalink fedilink source parent
[–] agamemnonymous@sh.itjust.works 7 points 3 years ago (1 child) If by "enjoyment" you mean having someone wait on you at a restaurant, I'm not shaming people for having enjoyment, just for taking it without paying. Same way I'd shame them for any other form of enjoyment at the expense of others. There are restaurants that explicitly inform their customers that they pay their staff a higher wage and tipping is not expected. If you don't want to tip and still want your enjoyment, eat at those establishments shame-free. If you disagree with tipping culture and want to incentivize business owners to pay their workers a thriving wage for their hard work, then stop spending money on establishments that utilize tipping, encourage your friends to do the same, and write the business owners to tell them why. Another shame-free option. If you go to an establishment where tipping is expected (and menu prices are therefore lower) but choose not to tip, then: The business owner benefits by making the same money they would have if you had tipped, no incentive to change You benefit from a lower price The server works just as hard, but now does not get honesty compensation. This does not incentive the owner to raise wages. You are exploiting the expectation of a tip that set the low menu prices. If you honestly wanted the server to make a thriving wage, your options are to pay that wage yourself or go to an establishment that does (and consequentially has higher prices to cover this higher wage). Yes, you should be shamed. There's no excuse for enjoyment via exploitating others. Candy being enjoyable doesn't entitle you to steal it if you can't afford it. Not agreeing with "candy pricing" culture doesn't excuse it. I don't care if your doctor or your barber or your banker gives you candy for free, that doesn't entitle you to take it for free from the store. Taking something without paying is theft. Labor is no different. If you can't afford it, go to a restaurant that doesn't use it. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [+] nearhat@lemmy.world -6 points 3 years ago* (last edited 3 years ago) (2 children) [deleted] permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 4 child comments replies: [–] agamemnonymous@sh.itjust.works 4 points 3 years ago (1 child) You're right, your contract is with the business. If you don't want a separate transaction for your server, then just be honest about it. I do assume you are being honest, and telling your server at the beginning of the meal that you don't tip, right? Surely you're not waiting until after they've given you the customary service to withhold the customary payment, right? That would certainly be shameful indeed, and undercut your desire for them to receive thriving pay for honest work. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [+] nearhat@lemmy.world -2 points 3 years ago (1 child) [deleted] permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] agamemnonymous@sh.itjust.works 2 points 3 years ago* (1 child) Then there's no harm in revealing that fact ahead of time. Just let them know not to expect a tip and enjoy your meal shame-free. I can tell you, as I'm sure you know, that tipping is expected, even if it isn't legally enforced. If you truly believe in honest pay for honest work, then be honest about the fact that you will not be subsidizing their pay and relieve them of that conventional expectation. If you're being honest with yourself, you should have no problem with that, right? permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [+] nearhat@lemmy.world 1 point 3 years ago (1 child) [deleted] permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] agamemnonymous@sh.itjust.works 1 point 3 years ago* (1 child) instead of simply not participating in it That's exactly what I said, though: if you don't want to tip, don't go to a table service restaurant. There are plenty of restaurants where tipping is not expected, feel free to go there and not give a shit. Most restaurants offer take out now too, so you can still eat your favorite meals. You are contorting yourself to justify the discount you give yourself at the expense of the person waiting on you. You are taking advantage of the fact that tipping happens after service, and that it's not legally enforced, to lavish in the benefits of a personal slave without paying them for the pleasure. You know very well that tips are expected, and know very well that the quality of the service you receive reflects that fact, and know very well that if you were honest up front about your beliefs on the practice, that the service you received would not be up to the quality you feel entitled to. Rather than upon the unpleasant implications thereof, or accept service in line with the compensation you provide (instead of the "personal slave" you've become so accustomed to), you've decided to remain entitled. You know very well that you're exploiting some poor worker via unspoken convention, and yes you should be very, very ashamed. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [+] nearhat@lemmy.world 0 points 3 years ago (1 child) [deleted] permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] agamemnonymous@sh.itjust.works 0 points 3 years ago* Non-table service tipping is optional. Toss your change in or throw a couple bucks if you're feeling generous. Those workers aren't considered tipped, legally speaking, and they don't make less than minimum wage. That's a pitiful equivocation. Tell your server when you sit down that you don't tip, or accept that you're a shameful, entitled little bilker. Stop your bloviating about "it's the business owner's responsibility!" and admit that you just a want a little slice of the exploitation for your own wallet. permalink fedilink source parent [–] MrShankles@reddthat.com 0 points 3 years ago Seems like you're being deliberately dense, simply to maintain your held opinion. The restaurant owner SHOULD be responsible for employee wages, but they're not... hence the entire issue with the US tipping system. And no amount of mental gymnastics will change the fact that you're incentivizing the owners to never change, by holding fast to your opinion permalink fedilink source parent
[+] nearhat@lemmy.world -6 points 3 years ago* (last edited 3 years ago) (2 children) [deleted] permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 4 child comments replies: [–] agamemnonymous@sh.itjust.works 4 points 3 years ago (1 child) You're right, your contract is with the business. If you don't want a separate transaction for your server, then just be honest about it. I do assume you are being honest, and telling your server at the beginning of the meal that you don't tip, right? Surely you're not waiting until after they've given you the customary service to withhold the customary payment, right? That would certainly be shameful indeed, and undercut your desire for them to receive thriving pay for honest work. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [+] nearhat@lemmy.world -2 points 3 years ago (1 child) [deleted] permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] agamemnonymous@sh.itjust.works 2 points 3 years ago* (1 child) Then there's no harm in revealing that fact ahead of time. Just let them know not to expect a tip and enjoy your meal shame-free. I can tell you, as I'm sure you know, that tipping is expected, even if it isn't legally enforced. If you truly believe in honest pay for honest work, then be honest about the fact that you will not be subsidizing their pay and relieve them of that conventional expectation. If you're being honest with yourself, you should have no problem with that, right? permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [+] nearhat@lemmy.world 1 point 3 years ago (1 child) [deleted] permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] agamemnonymous@sh.itjust.works 1 point 3 years ago* (1 child) instead of simply not participating in it That's exactly what I said, though: if you don't want to tip, don't go to a table service restaurant. There are plenty of restaurants where tipping is not expected, feel free to go there and not give a shit. Most restaurants offer take out now too, so you can still eat your favorite meals. You are contorting yourself to justify the discount you give yourself at the expense of the person waiting on you. You are taking advantage of the fact that tipping happens after service, and that it's not legally enforced, to lavish in the benefits of a personal slave without paying them for the pleasure. You know very well that tips are expected, and know very well that the quality of the service you receive reflects that fact, and know very well that if you were honest up front about your beliefs on the practice, that the service you received would not be up to the quality you feel entitled to. Rather than upon the unpleasant implications thereof, or accept service in line with the compensation you provide (instead of the "personal slave" you've become so accustomed to), you've decided to remain entitled. You know very well that you're exploiting some poor worker via unspoken convention, and yes you should be very, very ashamed. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [+] nearhat@lemmy.world 0 points 3 years ago (1 child) [deleted] permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] agamemnonymous@sh.itjust.works 0 points 3 years ago* Non-table service tipping is optional. Toss your change in or throw a couple bucks if you're feeling generous. Those workers aren't considered tipped, legally speaking, and they don't make less than minimum wage. That's a pitiful equivocation. Tell your server when you sit down that you don't tip, or accept that you're a shameful, entitled little bilker. Stop your bloviating about "it's the business owner's responsibility!" and admit that you just a want a little slice of the exploitation for your own wallet. permalink fedilink source parent [–] MrShankles@reddthat.com 0 points 3 years ago Seems like you're being deliberately dense, simply to maintain your held opinion. The restaurant owner SHOULD be responsible for employee wages, but they're not... hence the entire issue with the US tipping system. And no amount of mental gymnastics will change the fact that you're incentivizing the owners to never change, by holding fast to your opinion permalink fedilink source parent
[–] agamemnonymous@sh.itjust.works 4 points 3 years ago (1 child) You're right, your contract is with the business. If you don't want a separate transaction for your server, then just be honest about it. I do assume you are being honest, and telling your server at the beginning of the meal that you don't tip, right? Surely you're not waiting until after they've given you the customary service to withhold the customary payment, right? That would certainly be shameful indeed, and undercut your desire for them to receive thriving pay for honest work. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [+] nearhat@lemmy.world -2 points 3 years ago (1 child) [deleted] permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] agamemnonymous@sh.itjust.works 2 points 3 years ago* (1 child) Then there's no harm in revealing that fact ahead of time. Just let them know not to expect a tip and enjoy your meal shame-free. I can tell you, as I'm sure you know, that tipping is expected, even if it isn't legally enforced. If you truly believe in honest pay for honest work, then be honest about the fact that you will not be subsidizing their pay and relieve them of that conventional expectation. If you're being honest with yourself, you should have no problem with that, right? permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [+] nearhat@lemmy.world 1 point 3 years ago (1 child) [deleted] permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] agamemnonymous@sh.itjust.works 1 point 3 years ago* (1 child) instead of simply not participating in it That's exactly what I said, though: if you don't want to tip, don't go to a table service restaurant. There are plenty of restaurants where tipping is not expected, feel free to go there and not give a shit. Most restaurants offer take out now too, so you can still eat your favorite meals. You are contorting yourself to justify the discount you give yourself at the expense of the person waiting on you. You are taking advantage of the fact that tipping happens after service, and that it's not legally enforced, to lavish in the benefits of a personal slave without paying them for the pleasure. You know very well that tips are expected, and know very well that the quality of the service you receive reflects that fact, and know very well that if you were honest up front about your beliefs on the practice, that the service you received would not be up to the quality you feel entitled to. Rather than upon the unpleasant implications thereof, or accept service in line with the compensation you provide (instead of the "personal slave" you've become so accustomed to), you've decided to remain entitled. You know very well that you're exploiting some poor worker via unspoken convention, and yes you should be very, very ashamed. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [+] nearhat@lemmy.world 0 points 3 years ago (1 child) [deleted] permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] agamemnonymous@sh.itjust.works 0 points 3 years ago* Non-table service tipping is optional. Toss your change in or throw a couple bucks if you're feeling generous. Those workers aren't considered tipped, legally speaking, and they don't make less than minimum wage. That's a pitiful equivocation. Tell your server when you sit down that you don't tip, or accept that you're a shameful, entitled little bilker. Stop your bloviating about "it's the business owner's responsibility!" and admit that you just a want a little slice of the exploitation for your own wallet. permalink fedilink source parent
[+] nearhat@lemmy.world -2 points 3 years ago (1 child) [deleted] permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] agamemnonymous@sh.itjust.works 2 points 3 years ago* (1 child) Then there's no harm in revealing that fact ahead of time. Just let them know not to expect a tip and enjoy your meal shame-free. I can tell you, as I'm sure you know, that tipping is expected, even if it isn't legally enforced. If you truly believe in honest pay for honest work, then be honest about the fact that you will not be subsidizing their pay and relieve them of that conventional expectation. If you're being honest with yourself, you should have no problem with that, right? permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [+] nearhat@lemmy.world 1 point 3 years ago (1 child) [deleted] permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] agamemnonymous@sh.itjust.works 1 point 3 years ago* (1 child) instead of simply not participating in it That's exactly what I said, though: if you don't want to tip, don't go to a table service restaurant. There are plenty of restaurants where tipping is not expected, feel free to go there and not give a shit. Most restaurants offer take out now too, so you can still eat your favorite meals. You are contorting yourself to justify the discount you give yourself at the expense of the person waiting on you. You are taking advantage of the fact that tipping happens after service, and that it's not legally enforced, to lavish in the benefits of a personal slave without paying them for the pleasure. You know very well that tips are expected, and know very well that the quality of the service you receive reflects that fact, and know very well that if you were honest up front about your beliefs on the practice, that the service you received would not be up to the quality you feel entitled to. Rather than upon the unpleasant implications thereof, or accept service in line with the compensation you provide (instead of the "personal slave" you've become so accustomed to), you've decided to remain entitled. You know very well that you're exploiting some poor worker via unspoken convention, and yes you should be very, very ashamed. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [+] nearhat@lemmy.world 0 points 3 years ago (1 child) [deleted] permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] agamemnonymous@sh.itjust.works 0 points 3 years ago* Non-table service tipping is optional. Toss your change in or throw a couple bucks if you're feeling generous. Those workers aren't considered tipped, legally speaking, and they don't make less than minimum wage. That's a pitiful equivocation. Tell your server when you sit down that you don't tip, or accept that you're a shameful, entitled little bilker. Stop your bloviating about "it's the business owner's responsibility!" and admit that you just a want a little slice of the exploitation for your own wallet. permalink fedilink source parent
[–] agamemnonymous@sh.itjust.works 2 points 3 years ago* (1 child) Then there's no harm in revealing that fact ahead of time. Just let them know not to expect a tip and enjoy your meal shame-free. I can tell you, as I'm sure you know, that tipping is expected, even if it isn't legally enforced. If you truly believe in honest pay for honest work, then be honest about the fact that you will not be subsidizing their pay and relieve them of that conventional expectation. If you're being honest with yourself, you should have no problem with that, right? permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [+] nearhat@lemmy.world 1 point 3 years ago (1 child) [deleted] permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] agamemnonymous@sh.itjust.works 1 point 3 years ago* (1 child) instead of simply not participating in it That's exactly what I said, though: if you don't want to tip, don't go to a table service restaurant. There are plenty of restaurants where tipping is not expected, feel free to go there and not give a shit. Most restaurants offer take out now too, so you can still eat your favorite meals. You are contorting yourself to justify the discount you give yourself at the expense of the person waiting on you. You are taking advantage of the fact that tipping happens after service, and that it's not legally enforced, to lavish in the benefits of a personal slave without paying them for the pleasure. You know very well that tips are expected, and know very well that the quality of the service you receive reflects that fact, and know very well that if you were honest up front about your beliefs on the practice, that the service you received would not be up to the quality you feel entitled to. Rather than upon the unpleasant implications thereof, or accept service in line with the compensation you provide (instead of the "personal slave" you've become so accustomed to), you've decided to remain entitled. You know very well that you're exploiting some poor worker via unspoken convention, and yes you should be very, very ashamed. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [+] nearhat@lemmy.world 0 points 3 years ago (1 child) [deleted] permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] agamemnonymous@sh.itjust.works 0 points 3 years ago* Non-table service tipping is optional. Toss your change in or throw a couple bucks if you're feeling generous. Those workers aren't considered tipped, legally speaking, and they don't make less than minimum wage. That's a pitiful equivocation. Tell your server when you sit down that you don't tip, or accept that you're a shameful, entitled little bilker. Stop your bloviating about "it's the business owner's responsibility!" and admit that you just a want a little slice of the exploitation for your own wallet. permalink fedilink source parent
[+] nearhat@lemmy.world 1 point 3 years ago (1 child) [deleted] permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] agamemnonymous@sh.itjust.works 1 point 3 years ago* (1 child) instead of simply not participating in it That's exactly what I said, though: if you don't want to tip, don't go to a table service restaurant. There are plenty of restaurants where tipping is not expected, feel free to go there and not give a shit. Most restaurants offer take out now too, so you can still eat your favorite meals. You are contorting yourself to justify the discount you give yourself at the expense of the person waiting on you. You are taking advantage of the fact that tipping happens after service, and that it's not legally enforced, to lavish in the benefits of a personal slave without paying them for the pleasure. You know very well that tips are expected, and know very well that the quality of the service you receive reflects that fact, and know very well that if you were honest up front about your beliefs on the practice, that the service you received would not be up to the quality you feel entitled to. Rather than upon the unpleasant implications thereof, or accept service in line with the compensation you provide (instead of the "personal slave" you've become so accustomed to), you've decided to remain entitled. You know very well that you're exploiting some poor worker via unspoken convention, and yes you should be very, very ashamed. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [+] nearhat@lemmy.world 0 points 3 years ago (1 child) [deleted] permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] agamemnonymous@sh.itjust.works 0 points 3 years ago* Non-table service tipping is optional. Toss your change in or throw a couple bucks if you're feeling generous. Those workers aren't considered tipped, legally speaking, and they don't make less than minimum wage. That's a pitiful equivocation. Tell your server when you sit down that you don't tip, or accept that you're a shameful, entitled little bilker. Stop your bloviating about "it's the business owner's responsibility!" and admit that you just a want a little slice of the exploitation for your own wallet. permalink fedilink source parent
[–] agamemnonymous@sh.itjust.works 1 point 3 years ago* (1 child) instead of simply not participating in it That's exactly what I said, though: if you don't want to tip, don't go to a table service restaurant. There are plenty of restaurants where tipping is not expected, feel free to go there and not give a shit. Most restaurants offer take out now too, so you can still eat your favorite meals. You are contorting yourself to justify the discount you give yourself at the expense of the person waiting on you. You are taking advantage of the fact that tipping happens after service, and that it's not legally enforced, to lavish in the benefits of a personal slave without paying them for the pleasure. You know very well that tips are expected, and know very well that the quality of the service you receive reflects that fact, and know very well that if you were honest up front about your beliefs on the practice, that the service you received would not be up to the quality you feel entitled to. Rather than upon the unpleasant implications thereof, or accept service in line with the compensation you provide (instead of the "personal slave" you've become so accustomed to), you've decided to remain entitled. You know very well that you're exploiting some poor worker via unspoken convention, and yes you should be very, very ashamed. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [+] nearhat@lemmy.world 0 points 3 years ago (1 child) [deleted] permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] agamemnonymous@sh.itjust.works 0 points 3 years ago* Non-table service tipping is optional. Toss your change in or throw a couple bucks if you're feeling generous. Those workers aren't considered tipped, legally speaking, and they don't make less than minimum wage. That's a pitiful equivocation. Tell your server when you sit down that you don't tip, or accept that you're a shameful, entitled little bilker. Stop your bloviating about "it's the business owner's responsibility!" and admit that you just a want a little slice of the exploitation for your own wallet. permalink fedilink source parent
[+] nearhat@lemmy.world 0 points 3 years ago (1 child) [deleted] permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] agamemnonymous@sh.itjust.works 0 points 3 years ago* Non-table service tipping is optional. Toss your change in or throw a couple bucks if you're feeling generous. Those workers aren't considered tipped, legally speaking, and they don't make less than minimum wage. That's a pitiful equivocation. Tell your server when you sit down that you don't tip, or accept that you're a shameful, entitled little bilker. Stop your bloviating about "it's the business owner's responsibility!" and admit that you just a want a little slice of the exploitation for your own wallet. permalink fedilink source parent
[–] agamemnonymous@sh.itjust.works 0 points 3 years ago* Non-table service tipping is optional. Toss your change in or throw a couple bucks if you're feeling generous. Those workers aren't considered tipped, legally speaking, and they don't make less than minimum wage. That's a pitiful equivocation. Tell your server when you sit down that you don't tip, or accept that you're a shameful, entitled little bilker. Stop your bloviating about "it's the business owner's responsibility!" and admit that you just a want a little slice of the exploitation for your own wallet. permalink fedilink source parent
[–] MrShankles@reddthat.com 0 points 3 years ago Seems like you're being deliberately dense, simply to maintain your held opinion. The restaurant owner SHOULD be responsible for employee wages, but they're not... hence the entire issue with the US tipping system. And no amount of mental gymnastics will change the fact that you're incentivizing the owners to never change, by holding fast to your opinion permalink fedilink source parent
[–] Erisianbelle@lemmy.world -3 points 3 years ago (1 child) "I have sympathy for underpaid workers." ...but they should feed me while I do nothing to help them, instead I'll be here actively enriching the people exploiting their labor. "But I don't think I'll change my tipping attitude just because you said such and such." I'm sure that sounded cool in concept, but basically all this says is that you find the idea of changing your mind due to dialog silly. How sad. "Actually your commands sound a bit condescending" Oh wow, I hope my analysis doesn't come across like that. You might stop tipping - oh, wait... permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] myplacedk@lemmy.world 1 point 3 years ago All good points. But since tipping is supporting this broken system, and not tipping seems to be worse, what do you suggest then? I could just not go out, sure. Just stay out of it. If enough people do that, this wil lead to less customers, more employers closing their business, more employers loosing the job they couldn't afford to quit. I don't see how that helps either. So I'm listening. What do you suggest? permalink fedilink source parent
[–] myplacedk@lemmy.world 1 point 3 years ago All good points. But since tipping is supporting this broken system, and not tipping seems to be worse, what do you suggest then? I could just not go out, sure. Just stay out of it. If enough people do that, this wil lead to less customers, more employers closing their business, more employers loosing the job they couldn't afford to quit. I don't see how that helps either. So I'm listening. What do you suggest? permalink fedilink source parent
[–] samus12345@lemmy.world 4 points 3 years ago* (1 child) If you can't afford to live without tips, don't volunteer to become a potential victim of a terrible system. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] iiVy@lemmy.blahaj.zone 0 points 3 years ago (1 child) If it wasn't so depressing I might find it funny you think people work in bad environments because they want to. Minimum wage is not a livable wage, I shouldn't have to tell you this. Your arrogance is genuinely disgusting. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] samus12345@lemmy.world 4 points 3 years ago* (1 child) And I find the arrogance of telling people if they can't afford to tip, they shouldn't eat out disgusting. If they can afford it and are just being cheap, that's one thing, but you don't get to act all morally superior while being arrogant the other direction. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] SeeJayEmm@lemmy.procrastinati.org 0 points 3 years ago (1 child) If you can't afford something you shouldn't buy it. Just because you don't agree with the system doesn't mean you get to ignore it and then justify it by taking a moral high ground. You know the servers wages are dependent on tips and you choose not to pay them. THAT is the social contract. Whether you agree with it or not. If you cared about changing the system you'd take steps to change it without screwing the workers. You're just being cheap. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] samus12345@lemmy.world 1 point 3 years ago* (1 child) I tip. But there's a difference between "I know the system is terrible, but I rely on tips and would really appreciate it if you're able" and "Don't go out if you can't afford to tip." The second is arrogant and condescending. Not being an asshole goes both ways. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] SeeJayEmm@lemmy.procrastinati.org 0 points 3 years ago No. It's not. Don't go somewhere you can't afford (including the tip) is not arrogant. permalink fedilink source parent
[–] iiVy@lemmy.blahaj.zone 0 points 3 years ago (1 child) If it wasn't so depressing I might find it funny you think people work in bad environments because they want to. Minimum wage is not a livable wage, I shouldn't have to tell you this. Your arrogance is genuinely disgusting. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] samus12345@lemmy.world 4 points 3 years ago* (1 child) And I find the arrogance of telling people if they can't afford to tip, they shouldn't eat out disgusting. If they can afford it and are just being cheap, that's one thing, but you don't get to act all morally superior while being arrogant the other direction. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] SeeJayEmm@lemmy.procrastinati.org 0 points 3 years ago (1 child) If you can't afford something you shouldn't buy it. Just because you don't agree with the system doesn't mean you get to ignore it and then justify it by taking a moral high ground. You know the servers wages are dependent on tips and you choose not to pay them. THAT is the social contract. Whether you agree with it or not. If you cared about changing the system you'd take steps to change it without screwing the workers. You're just being cheap. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] samus12345@lemmy.world 1 point 3 years ago* (1 child) I tip. But there's a difference between "I know the system is terrible, but I rely on tips and would really appreciate it if you're able" and "Don't go out if you can't afford to tip." The second is arrogant and condescending. Not being an asshole goes both ways. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] SeeJayEmm@lemmy.procrastinati.org 0 points 3 years ago No. It's not. Don't go somewhere you can't afford (including the tip) is not arrogant. permalink fedilink source parent
[–] samus12345@lemmy.world 4 points 3 years ago* (1 child) And I find the arrogance of telling people if they can't afford to tip, they shouldn't eat out disgusting. If they can afford it and are just being cheap, that's one thing, but you don't get to act all morally superior while being arrogant the other direction. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] SeeJayEmm@lemmy.procrastinati.org 0 points 3 years ago (1 child) If you can't afford something you shouldn't buy it. Just because you don't agree with the system doesn't mean you get to ignore it and then justify it by taking a moral high ground. You know the servers wages are dependent on tips and you choose not to pay them. THAT is the social contract. Whether you agree with it or not. If you cared about changing the system you'd take steps to change it without screwing the workers. You're just being cheap. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] samus12345@lemmy.world 1 point 3 years ago* (1 child) I tip. But there's a difference between "I know the system is terrible, but I rely on tips and would really appreciate it if you're able" and "Don't go out if you can't afford to tip." The second is arrogant and condescending. Not being an asshole goes both ways. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] SeeJayEmm@lemmy.procrastinati.org 0 points 3 years ago No. It's not. Don't go somewhere you can't afford (including the tip) is not arrogant. permalink fedilink source parent
[–] SeeJayEmm@lemmy.procrastinati.org 0 points 3 years ago (1 child) If you can't afford something you shouldn't buy it. Just because you don't agree with the system doesn't mean you get to ignore it and then justify it by taking a moral high ground. You know the servers wages are dependent on tips and you choose not to pay them. THAT is the social contract. Whether you agree with it or not. If you cared about changing the system you'd take steps to change it without screwing the workers. You're just being cheap. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] samus12345@lemmy.world 1 point 3 years ago* (1 child) I tip. But there's a difference between "I know the system is terrible, but I rely on tips and would really appreciate it if you're able" and "Don't go out if you can't afford to tip." The second is arrogant and condescending. Not being an asshole goes both ways. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] SeeJayEmm@lemmy.procrastinati.org 0 points 3 years ago No. It's not. Don't go somewhere you can't afford (including the tip) is not arrogant. permalink fedilink source parent
[–] samus12345@lemmy.world 1 point 3 years ago* (1 child) I tip. But there's a difference between "I know the system is terrible, but I rely on tips and would really appreciate it if you're able" and "Don't go out if you can't afford to tip." The second is arrogant and condescending. Not being an asshole goes both ways. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] SeeJayEmm@lemmy.procrastinati.org 0 points 3 years ago No. It's not. Don't go somewhere you can't afford (including the tip) is not arrogant. permalink fedilink source parent
[–] SeeJayEmm@lemmy.procrastinati.org 0 points 3 years ago No. It's not. Don't go somewhere you can't afford (including the tip) is not arrogant. permalink fedilink source parent
[–] toomanyjoints69@lemmygrad.ml 3 points 3 years ago I really should stop going to places that need me to tip. I need to save up my money after my mistakes ruined my life yet again. Im so tired of never being able to make mistakes without nearly losing everything permalink fedilink source parent
[–] myplacedk@lemmy.world 1 point 3 years ago* I see what you mean, but I'm not the one fucking over the employees. On the short term you are right, but as long as customers keeps tipping, the system works well enough for nothing to change. The more people stops tipping, the closer we get to change. And I'm sorry that the change will hurt the employees, but it's not my battle. And tipping does not support the employees battle, just this days income. Tell me another way I can support their battle, and I'll listen. (I tip when the employees seems to rely on it, or if I feel extraordinarily well serviced.) permalink fedilink source parent
[–] HawlSera@lemm.ee -5 points 3 years ago (2 children) Right, lemme just go on a hunger strike to should stop the most predatory Capitalists in existence /s permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 4 child comments replies: [–] SeeJayEmm@lemmy.procrastinati.org 0 points 3 years ago Are you incapable of feeding yourself? permalink fedilink source parent [–] agamemnonymous@sh.itjust.works 0 points 3 years ago You do know there are many places to get food without table service, right? permalink fedilink source parent
[–] SeeJayEmm@lemmy.procrastinati.org 0 points 3 years ago Are you incapable of feeding yourself? permalink fedilink source parent
[–] agamemnonymous@sh.itjust.works 0 points 3 years ago You do know there are many places to get food without table service, right? permalink fedilink source parent
[+] FlashMobOfOne@lemmy.world -34 points 3 years ago (2 children) That's actually inaccurate. You can be charged for theft of service for refusing to tip someone. It's happened. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 4 child comments replies: [+] nearhat@lemmy.world 23 points 3 years ago (1 child) [deleted] permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [+] FlashMobOfOne@lemmy.world -21 points 3 years ago (2 children) And you would be, again, factually incorrect. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 4 child comments replies: [+] nearhat@lemmy.world 16 points 3 years ago (1 child) [deleted] permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] samus12345@lemmy.world 7 points 3 years ago Narrator: They did not have a source. permalink fedilink source parent [–] ArchmageAzor@lemmy.world 3 points 3 years ago Go ahead then, back it up. Share an article or something about it. Hell, share three of the same event. permalink fedilink source parent [–] samus12345@lemmy.world 9 points 3 years ago Then it's not a tip, it's wages the customer is expected to pay. permalink fedilink source parent
[+] nearhat@lemmy.world 23 points 3 years ago (1 child) [deleted] permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [+] FlashMobOfOne@lemmy.world -21 points 3 years ago (2 children) And you would be, again, factually incorrect. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 4 child comments replies: [+] nearhat@lemmy.world 16 points 3 years ago (1 child) [deleted] permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] samus12345@lemmy.world 7 points 3 years ago Narrator: They did not have a source. permalink fedilink source parent [–] ArchmageAzor@lemmy.world 3 points 3 years ago Go ahead then, back it up. Share an article or something about it. Hell, share three of the same event. permalink fedilink source parent
[+] FlashMobOfOne@lemmy.world -21 points 3 years ago (2 children) And you would be, again, factually incorrect. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 4 child comments replies: [+] nearhat@lemmy.world 16 points 3 years ago (1 child) [deleted] permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] samus12345@lemmy.world 7 points 3 years ago Narrator: They did not have a source. permalink fedilink source parent [–] ArchmageAzor@lemmy.world 3 points 3 years ago Go ahead then, back it up. Share an article or something about it. Hell, share three of the same event. permalink fedilink source parent
[+] nearhat@lemmy.world 16 points 3 years ago (1 child) [deleted] permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] samus12345@lemmy.world 7 points 3 years ago Narrator: They did not have a source. permalink fedilink source parent
[–] samus12345@lemmy.world 7 points 3 years ago Narrator: They did not have a source. permalink fedilink source parent
[–] ArchmageAzor@lemmy.world 3 points 3 years ago Go ahead then, back it up. Share an article or something about it. Hell, share three of the same event. permalink fedilink source parent
[–] samus12345@lemmy.world 9 points 3 years ago Then it's not a tip, it's wages the customer is expected to pay. permalink fedilink source parent