▲ 61 ▼ Germany’s military power is on the rise. This time it must be firmly embedded in Europe. (ecfr.eu) submitted 1 day ago by Pip@feddit.org to c/europe@feddit.org 30 comments fedilink hide all child comments As Russian aggression continues and Trump’s US threatens NATO, it is even more vital for a unified defence of the continent. Timothy Garton Ash Professor of European Studies, University of Oxford
[–] Pip@feddit.org [S] 6 points 1 day ago (1 child) Last time? True, Western Germany was a super powerful military embedded in western Europe. Maybe that's why the Soviets never attacked. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [+] doben@lemmy.wtf -9 points 22 hours ago* (last edited 22 hours ago) (2 children) Imagine simping so hard for the German state, that you pretend not to understand, what‘s meant by „military power“ and „last time“ and in the next sentence shift towards an attack on the military power that paid with 27 million lives to stop Germany‘s extermination campaign, the last time it was a military power. Absolutely normal. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 4 child comments replies: [–] HieroProtagonist@feddit.org 12 points 22 hours ago (1 child) Absolutely normal. It is absolutely normal if one is not completely fixated on second world war. And the "last time" Germany had an significant military was not in the 30s and 40s... it was in the 80s, with strong ties to NATO and firmly on the ground of the German constitution. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [+] doben@lemmy.wtf -2 points 20 hours ago* (last edited 20 hours ago) (1 child) [removed by mod] permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] HieroProtagonist@feddit.org 4 points 20 hours ago (1 child) Aren’t you the one simping for and whitewashing the Bundeswehr in the other thread? If not utterly condemning the Bundeswehr and highlighting positive things where they are is "simping" for you - yep, that's me! Is that the nature of your account now, is that what we can expect from you in the future? Yep, feel free to block me if you don't want to see opinions conflicting with your own. The qualitative difference now is, that Germany strives to be THE military power of Europe again, with other countries following their lead This is - at best - a half-truth. Germany is the biggest economy in Europe, it is only natural that it has to shoulder a big part of the European defence. Even with a massive rearmament to reduce the impact of the decreasing US military presence - which is happening all over Europe, mind you - Germany's role is to be a part in a defensive alliance. If you see any ambition to conquer "Lebensraum" in the east, please feel free to share the evidence. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [+] doben@lemmy.wtf -2 points 18 hours ago* (last edited 16 hours ago) (1 child) [removed by mod] permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] HieroProtagonist@feddit.org 3 points 18 hours ago (1 child) Honestly, thank you for this clarification of your standpoint. I think it is in the best interest of both our blood pressure and the discussion climate in this community if we disengage our communication at this point - as neither of us will be able to convince the other of our viewpoints. In this spirit i wish you a nice day. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [+] doben@lemmy.wtf -1 points 17 hours ago [removed by mod] permalink fedilink source parent [–] Pip@feddit.org [S] -2 points 22 hours ago (1 child) I know that you are German. You probably feel deeply ashamed about your family's history and your great grandparents or great great grandparents and their crimes. But please don't put your personal history onto cotemporary Europe. Please also don't let it drive you to ignore history of all the millions who died due to Soviet war crimes, violence, starvation. We're all against fascism here, darling. You're not alone. This is not the battle you're fighting. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] doben@lemmy.wtf -2 points 20 hours ago* I'd suggest to talk for yourself only. And you certainly are not anti-fascist. You don't even know how stores work, why should any normal working class human trust your Staatsräson takes, that usually are not even based on facts or reality even? And you keep doing this same attempt of a character assassination based on nothing. It's a bit embarrassing. And always when your hilarious state narratives are being challenged. We've been talking German military and you keep trying to shift the focus away from the state's obvious historic path and responsibility, by the use of Red Scare propaganda to shovel blame onto the evil Soviets. The shit you pull is close to denial of German history. Anything, except accepting critique of the German state. permalink fedilink source parent
[+] doben@lemmy.wtf -9 points 22 hours ago* (last edited 22 hours ago) (2 children) Imagine simping so hard for the German state, that you pretend not to understand, what‘s meant by „military power“ and „last time“ and in the next sentence shift towards an attack on the military power that paid with 27 million lives to stop Germany‘s extermination campaign, the last time it was a military power. Absolutely normal. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 4 child comments replies: [–] HieroProtagonist@feddit.org 12 points 22 hours ago (1 child) Absolutely normal. It is absolutely normal if one is not completely fixated on second world war. And the "last time" Germany had an significant military was not in the 30s and 40s... it was in the 80s, with strong ties to NATO and firmly on the ground of the German constitution. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [+] doben@lemmy.wtf -2 points 20 hours ago* (last edited 20 hours ago) (1 child) [removed by mod] permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] HieroProtagonist@feddit.org 4 points 20 hours ago (1 child) Aren’t you the one simping for and whitewashing the Bundeswehr in the other thread? If not utterly condemning the Bundeswehr and highlighting positive things where they are is "simping" for you - yep, that's me! Is that the nature of your account now, is that what we can expect from you in the future? Yep, feel free to block me if you don't want to see opinions conflicting with your own. The qualitative difference now is, that Germany strives to be THE military power of Europe again, with other countries following their lead This is - at best - a half-truth. Germany is the biggest economy in Europe, it is only natural that it has to shoulder a big part of the European defence. Even with a massive rearmament to reduce the impact of the decreasing US military presence - which is happening all over Europe, mind you - Germany's role is to be a part in a defensive alliance. If you see any ambition to conquer "Lebensraum" in the east, please feel free to share the evidence. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [+] doben@lemmy.wtf -2 points 18 hours ago* (last edited 16 hours ago) (1 child) [removed by mod] permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] HieroProtagonist@feddit.org 3 points 18 hours ago (1 child) Honestly, thank you for this clarification of your standpoint. I think it is in the best interest of both our blood pressure and the discussion climate in this community if we disengage our communication at this point - as neither of us will be able to convince the other of our viewpoints. In this spirit i wish you a nice day. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [+] doben@lemmy.wtf -1 points 17 hours ago [removed by mod] permalink fedilink source parent [–] Pip@feddit.org [S] -2 points 22 hours ago (1 child) I know that you are German. You probably feel deeply ashamed about your family's history and your great grandparents or great great grandparents and their crimes. But please don't put your personal history onto cotemporary Europe. Please also don't let it drive you to ignore history of all the millions who died due to Soviet war crimes, violence, starvation. We're all against fascism here, darling. You're not alone. This is not the battle you're fighting. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] doben@lemmy.wtf -2 points 20 hours ago* I'd suggest to talk for yourself only. And you certainly are not anti-fascist. You don't even know how stores work, why should any normal working class human trust your Staatsräson takes, that usually are not even based on facts or reality even? And you keep doing this same attempt of a character assassination based on nothing. It's a bit embarrassing. And always when your hilarious state narratives are being challenged. We've been talking German military and you keep trying to shift the focus away from the state's obvious historic path and responsibility, by the use of Red Scare propaganda to shovel blame onto the evil Soviets. The shit you pull is close to denial of German history. Anything, except accepting critique of the German state. permalink fedilink source parent
[–] HieroProtagonist@feddit.org 12 points 22 hours ago (1 child) Absolutely normal. It is absolutely normal if one is not completely fixated on second world war. And the "last time" Germany had an significant military was not in the 30s and 40s... it was in the 80s, with strong ties to NATO and firmly on the ground of the German constitution. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [+] doben@lemmy.wtf -2 points 20 hours ago* (last edited 20 hours ago) (1 child) [removed by mod] permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] HieroProtagonist@feddit.org 4 points 20 hours ago (1 child) Aren’t you the one simping for and whitewashing the Bundeswehr in the other thread? If not utterly condemning the Bundeswehr and highlighting positive things where they are is "simping" for you - yep, that's me! Is that the nature of your account now, is that what we can expect from you in the future? Yep, feel free to block me if you don't want to see opinions conflicting with your own. The qualitative difference now is, that Germany strives to be THE military power of Europe again, with other countries following their lead This is - at best - a half-truth. Germany is the biggest economy in Europe, it is only natural that it has to shoulder a big part of the European defence. Even with a massive rearmament to reduce the impact of the decreasing US military presence - which is happening all over Europe, mind you - Germany's role is to be a part in a defensive alliance. If you see any ambition to conquer "Lebensraum" in the east, please feel free to share the evidence. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [+] doben@lemmy.wtf -2 points 18 hours ago* (last edited 16 hours ago) (1 child) [removed by mod] permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] HieroProtagonist@feddit.org 3 points 18 hours ago (1 child) Honestly, thank you for this clarification of your standpoint. I think it is in the best interest of both our blood pressure and the discussion climate in this community if we disengage our communication at this point - as neither of us will be able to convince the other of our viewpoints. In this spirit i wish you a nice day. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [+] doben@lemmy.wtf -1 points 17 hours ago [removed by mod] permalink fedilink source parent
[+] doben@lemmy.wtf -2 points 20 hours ago* (last edited 20 hours ago) (1 child) [removed by mod] permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] HieroProtagonist@feddit.org 4 points 20 hours ago (1 child) Aren’t you the one simping for and whitewashing the Bundeswehr in the other thread? If not utterly condemning the Bundeswehr and highlighting positive things where they are is "simping" for you - yep, that's me! Is that the nature of your account now, is that what we can expect from you in the future? Yep, feel free to block me if you don't want to see opinions conflicting with your own. The qualitative difference now is, that Germany strives to be THE military power of Europe again, with other countries following their lead This is - at best - a half-truth. Germany is the biggest economy in Europe, it is only natural that it has to shoulder a big part of the European defence. Even with a massive rearmament to reduce the impact of the decreasing US military presence - which is happening all over Europe, mind you - Germany's role is to be a part in a defensive alliance. If you see any ambition to conquer "Lebensraum" in the east, please feel free to share the evidence. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [+] doben@lemmy.wtf -2 points 18 hours ago* (last edited 16 hours ago) (1 child) [removed by mod] permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] HieroProtagonist@feddit.org 3 points 18 hours ago (1 child) Honestly, thank you for this clarification of your standpoint. I think it is in the best interest of both our blood pressure and the discussion climate in this community if we disengage our communication at this point - as neither of us will be able to convince the other of our viewpoints. In this spirit i wish you a nice day. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [+] doben@lemmy.wtf -1 points 17 hours ago [removed by mod] permalink fedilink source parent
[–] HieroProtagonist@feddit.org 4 points 20 hours ago (1 child) Aren’t you the one simping for and whitewashing the Bundeswehr in the other thread? If not utterly condemning the Bundeswehr and highlighting positive things where they are is "simping" for you - yep, that's me! Is that the nature of your account now, is that what we can expect from you in the future? Yep, feel free to block me if you don't want to see opinions conflicting with your own. The qualitative difference now is, that Germany strives to be THE military power of Europe again, with other countries following their lead This is - at best - a half-truth. Germany is the biggest economy in Europe, it is only natural that it has to shoulder a big part of the European defence. Even with a massive rearmament to reduce the impact of the decreasing US military presence - which is happening all over Europe, mind you - Germany's role is to be a part in a defensive alliance. If you see any ambition to conquer "Lebensraum" in the east, please feel free to share the evidence. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [+] doben@lemmy.wtf -2 points 18 hours ago* (last edited 16 hours ago) (1 child) [removed by mod] permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] HieroProtagonist@feddit.org 3 points 18 hours ago (1 child) Honestly, thank you for this clarification of your standpoint. I think it is in the best interest of both our blood pressure and the discussion climate in this community if we disengage our communication at this point - as neither of us will be able to convince the other of our viewpoints. In this spirit i wish you a nice day. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [+] doben@lemmy.wtf -1 points 17 hours ago [removed by mod] permalink fedilink source parent
[+] doben@lemmy.wtf -2 points 18 hours ago* (last edited 16 hours ago) (1 child) [removed by mod] permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] HieroProtagonist@feddit.org 3 points 18 hours ago (1 child) Honestly, thank you for this clarification of your standpoint. I think it is in the best interest of both our blood pressure and the discussion climate in this community if we disengage our communication at this point - as neither of us will be able to convince the other of our viewpoints. In this spirit i wish you a nice day. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [+] doben@lemmy.wtf -1 points 17 hours ago [removed by mod] permalink fedilink source parent
[–] HieroProtagonist@feddit.org 3 points 18 hours ago (1 child) Honestly, thank you for this clarification of your standpoint. I think it is in the best interest of both our blood pressure and the discussion climate in this community if we disengage our communication at this point - as neither of us will be able to convince the other of our viewpoints. In this spirit i wish you a nice day. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [+] doben@lemmy.wtf -1 points 17 hours ago [removed by mod] permalink fedilink source parent
[–] Pip@feddit.org [S] -2 points 22 hours ago (1 child) I know that you are German. You probably feel deeply ashamed about your family's history and your great grandparents or great great grandparents and their crimes. But please don't put your personal history onto cotemporary Europe. Please also don't let it drive you to ignore history of all the millions who died due to Soviet war crimes, violence, starvation. We're all against fascism here, darling. You're not alone. This is not the battle you're fighting. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] doben@lemmy.wtf -2 points 20 hours ago* I'd suggest to talk for yourself only. And you certainly are not anti-fascist. You don't even know how stores work, why should any normal working class human trust your Staatsräson takes, that usually are not even based on facts or reality even? And you keep doing this same attempt of a character assassination based on nothing. It's a bit embarrassing. And always when your hilarious state narratives are being challenged. We've been talking German military and you keep trying to shift the focus away from the state's obvious historic path and responsibility, by the use of Red Scare propaganda to shovel blame onto the evil Soviets. The shit you pull is close to denial of German history. Anything, except accepting critique of the German state. permalink fedilink source parent
[–] doben@lemmy.wtf -2 points 20 hours ago* I'd suggest to talk for yourself only. And you certainly are not anti-fascist. You don't even know how stores work, why should any normal working class human trust your Staatsräson takes, that usually are not even based on facts or reality even? And you keep doing this same attempt of a character assassination based on nothing. It's a bit embarrassing. And always when your hilarious state narratives are being challenged. We've been talking German military and you keep trying to shift the focus away from the state's obvious historic path and responsibility, by the use of Red Scare propaganda to shovel blame onto the evil Soviets. The shit you pull is close to denial of German history. Anything, except accepting critique of the German state. permalink fedilink source parent