▲ 925 ▼ Star Trek didn't "become woke", you just grew up to be a bad person. (lemmy.world) submitted 3 weeks ago by WhimsicalSadist@lemmy.world to c/tenforward@lemmy.world 141 comments fedilink hide all child comments
[–] Ismay@programming.dev 5 points 3 weeks ago (2 children) You never watched TNG right ? It was literally either a philosophical lesson or a critic of society by episode ... permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 4 child comments replies: [–] schipelblorp@sh.itjust.works 8 points 3 weeks ago (1 child) Maybe take a little of that energy you spend watching Trek closely and put it towards reading comments more carefully? permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] Ismay@programming.dev 3 points 3 weeks ago (1 child) That's a very valid comment 😂 permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] schipelblorp@sh.itjust.works 4 points 3 weeks ago Sometimes I skim for "what makes this jerk wrong" too. Welcome to the club. permalink fedilink source parent [–] Soulcreator@programming.dev 2 points 3 weeks ago (2 children) Yes, that was literally my point. I'm uncertain where the disagreement is? TNG was rich with thought provoking philosophy, you would be left to ponder the morality of the episode long after the fact. Sometimes things were intentionally ambiguous, sometimes not. But the episodes always invited viewers to come to conclusions. The writing style has shifted from that approach, with modern Trek the answers require significantly less digging, sometimes it feels like the lesson is being underscored. The morality is the same only how it is presented has shifted. So what I'm saying is the politics is the same as it ever was, what has changed was the writing style. I'm not even going to place a value judgement on that shift, some might prefer the face value appeal of modern Trek. Personally I prefer the writing style that was used on TNG, you may like a modern series better, either way it's all good. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 4 child comments replies: [–] Exatron@lemmy.world 8 points 3 weeks ago (2 children) You're acting like Star Trek used to be more subtle when it had episodes like "Let That Be Your Last Battlefield". permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 4 child comments replies: [–] Soulcreator@programming.dev 6 points 3 weeks ago (1 child) Valid point, TOS wasn't always subtle. In my defense I was referring to the TNG, DS9, VOY, (and sometimes) ENT era. Whose writing often felt significantly more polished and less rushed than TOS. So if you are trying to say modern Trek is written in a style closer to TOS, then yes I 100% concede to that point. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] usernamefactory@lemmy.ca 6 points 3 weeks ago I would not say TNG was particularly more subtle. A gendered alien from a genderless race being put through conversion therapy is about as subtle as Let That Be Your Last Battlefield was. A planet of literal Native Americans in space being forcibly moved by Picard, who finds out he is the actual descendent of a 17th century coloniser, is somehow even less subtle. The Measure of a Man would have worked without explicitly bringing up slavery, but they made sure that it was brought up, and that it was a black woman who did it. Star Trek has pretty much always shouted its message for the people in the back row. permalink fedilink source parent [–] ragas@lemmy.ml 4 points 3 weeks ago I think the problem is that in some of the newer trek, the political references are crude and sometimes tacked on when they are not even relevant. permalink fedilink source parent [–] Ismay@programming.dev 2 points 3 weeks ago Reread your post and I "may" have misunderstood you at first 😁 permalink fedilink source parent
[–] schipelblorp@sh.itjust.works 8 points 3 weeks ago (1 child) Maybe take a little of that energy you spend watching Trek closely and put it towards reading comments more carefully? permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] Ismay@programming.dev 3 points 3 weeks ago (1 child) That's a very valid comment 😂 permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] schipelblorp@sh.itjust.works 4 points 3 weeks ago Sometimes I skim for "what makes this jerk wrong" too. Welcome to the club. permalink fedilink source parent
[–] Ismay@programming.dev 3 points 3 weeks ago (1 child) That's a very valid comment 😂 permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] schipelblorp@sh.itjust.works 4 points 3 weeks ago Sometimes I skim for "what makes this jerk wrong" too. Welcome to the club. permalink fedilink source parent
[–] schipelblorp@sh.itjust.works 4 points 3 weeks ago Sometimes I skim for "what makes this jerk wrong" too. Welcome to the club. permalink fedilink source parent
[–] Soulcreator@programming.dev 2 points 3 weeks ago (2 children) Yes, that was literally my point. I'm uncertain where the disagreement is? TNG was rich with thought provoking philosophy, you would be left to ponder the morality of the episode long after the fact. Sometimes things were intentionally ambiguous, sometimes not. But the episodes always invited viewers to come to conclusions. The writing style has shifted from that approach, with modern Trek the answers require significantly less digging, sometimes it feels like the lesson is being underscored. The morality is the same only how it is presented has shifted. So what I'm saying is the politics is the same as it ever was, what has changed was the writing style. I'm not even going to place a value judgement on that shift, some might prefer the face value appeal of modern Trek. Personally I prefer the writing style that was used on TNG, you may like a modern series better, either way it's all good. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 4 child comments replies: [–] Exatron@lemmy.world 8 points 3 weeks ago (2 children) You're acting like Star Trek used to be more subtle when it had episodes like "Let That Be Your Last Battlefield". permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 4 child comments replies: [–] Soulcreator@programming.dev 6 points 3 weeks ago (1 child) Valid point, TOS wasn't always subtle. In my defense I was referring to the TNG, DS9, VOY, (and sometimes) ENT era. Whose writing often felt significantly more polished and less rushed than TOS. So if you are trying to say modern Trek is written in a style closer to TOS, then yes I 100% concede to that point. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] usernamefactory@lemmy.ca 6 points 3 weeks ago I would not say TNG was particularly more subtle. A gendered alien from a genderless race being put through conversion therapy is about as subtle as Let That Be Your Last Battlefield was. A planet of literal Native Americans in space being forcibly moved by Picard, who finds out he is the actual descendent of a 17th century coloniser, is somehow even less subtle. The Measure of a Man would have worked without explicitly bringing up slavery, but they made sure that it was brought up, and that it was a black woman who did it. Star Trek has pretty much always shouted its message for the people in the back row. permalink fedilink source parent [–] ragas@lemmy.ml 4 points 3 weeks ago I think the problem is that in some of the newer trek, the political references are crude and sometimes tacked on when they are not even relevant. permalink fedilink source parent [–] Ismay@programming.dev 2 points 3 weeks ago Reread your post and I "may" have misunderstood you at first 😁 permalink fedilink source parent
[–] Exatron@lemmy.world 8 points 3 weeks ago (2 children) You're acting like Star Trek used to be more subtle when it had episodes like "Let That Be Your Last Battlefield". permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 4 child comments replies: [–] Soulcreator@programming.dev 6 points 3 weeks ago (1 child) Valid point, TOS wasn't always subtle. In my defense I was referring to the TNG, DS9, VOY, (and sometimes) ENT era. Whose writing often felt significantly more polished and less rushed than TOS. So if you are trying to say modern Trek is written in a style closer to TOS, then yes I 100% concede to that point. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] usernamefactory@lemmy.ca 6 points 3 weeks ago I would not say TNG was particularly more subtle. A gendered alien from a genderless race being put through conversion therapy is about as subtle as Let That Be Your Last Battlefield was. A planet of literal Native Americans in space being forcibly moved by Picard, who finds out he is the actual descendent of a 17th century coloniser, is somehow even less subtle. The Measure of a Man would have worked without explicitly bringing up slavery, but they made sure that it was brought up, and that it was a black woman who did it. Star Trek has pretty much always shouted its message for the people in the back row. permalink fedilink source parent [–] ragas@lemmy.ml 4 points 3 weeks ago I think the problem is that in some of the newer trek, the political references are crude and sometimes tacked on when they are not even relevant. permalink fedilink source parent
[–] Soulcreator@programming.dev 6 points 3 weeks ago (1 child) Valid point, TOS wasn't always subtle. In my defense I was referring to the TNG, DS9, VOY, (and sometimes) ENT era. Whose writing often felt significantly more polished and less rushed than TOS. So if you are trying to say modern Trek is written in a style closer to TOS, then yes I 100% concede to that point. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] usernamefactory@lemmy.ca 6 points 3 weeks ago I would not say TNG was particularly more subtle. A gendered alien from a genderless race being put through conversion therapy is about as subtle as Let That Be Your Last Battlefield was. A planet of literal Native Americans in space being forcibly moved by Picard, who finds out he is the actual descendent of a 17th century coloniser, is somehow even less subtle. The Measure of a Man would have worked without explicitly bringing up slavery, but they made sure that it was brought up, and that it was a black woman who did it. Star Trek has pretty much always shouted its message for the people in the back row. permalink fedilink source parent
[–] usernamefactory@lemmy.ca 6 points 3 weeks ago I would not say TNG was particularly more subtle. A gendered alien from a genderless race being put through conversion therapy is about as subtle as Let That Be Your Last Battlefield was. A planet of literal Native Americans in space being forcibly moved by Picard, who finds out he is the actual descendent of a 17th century coloniser, is somehow even less subtle. The Measure of a Man would have worked without explicitly bringing up slavery, but they made sure that it was brought up, and that it was a black woman who did it. Star Trek has pretty much always shouted its message for the people in the back row. permalink fedilink source parent
[–] ragas@lemmy.ml 4 points 3 weeks ago I think the problem is that in some of the newer trek, the political references are crude and sometimes tacked on when they are not even relevant. permalink fedilink source parent
[–] Ismay@programming.dev 2 points 3 weeks ago Reread your post and I "may" have misunderstood you at first 😁 permalink fedilink source parent
